What changes do you want for the railway?

[adb968008]

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

If you know where the restaurants are, you can do this already. There was a famous case of a party ordering a full curry dinner as they boarded at Euston, having it delivered to the train as it stopped at Milton Keynes, and enjoying it en-route to Birmingham.

More of this !

 

in Eastern Europe its fairly common to see locals selling home made  food on the platforms as trains arrive.

whilst thats unlikely to have that here, having coordinated delivery to the carriage enroute by some restaurants enroute might be useful.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

28 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

More of this !

 

in Eastern Europe its fairly common to see locals selling home made  food on the platforms as trains arrive.

whilst thats unlikely to have that here, having coordinated delivery to the carriage enroute by some restaurants enroute might be useful.

 

 
If that spells the demise of the pernicious onboard trolley ( XC just one example ),I’m all for it.Oh,just one more obscure desire and here I’m asking for the moon.Could we have trains which aren’t subject to last minute cancellation or termination short of destination ? 

[Mallard60022]

Weirdly the consensus is sort of reverting to the early 1950s services in many ways. British Railways. British Road Services. Railway Ferries. Railway Buses (but we have some of those e.g York). On board dining! Simple Ticketing!

Well Staffed, prestigious Long Distance Expresses! Damn fine Commuter services, some with Kippers, Bars and Luxury Coaches! Porters! 

OK there was probably over Staffing back then and the Freight Trains have changed dramatically, but it worked (most of the time) and things got done without a load of fuss and nonsense. There was still pride in the job, but there were still jokes about the Sandwiches, however I partook of many Buffets back then (few fast food outlets, other than Welks and Fish and Chips, remember) and there were some classic places.

Was it a more simple life (not for many Staff I know), were the Railways classed as important FOR PEOPLE until Marples? 

Of course things in Transport began to change dramatically mid to late 60s, but the actual Passenger and Customer Service back then was super efficient and customer focused, if a little Chulmly Warner. I think Bosses were respected because they knew the job as with  Senior Colleagues.

Also very few, if any, walked into a Railway job from University.

I reckon it was still a respected profession until the early 70s when I think the powers that be decided Trains were crap, with a decline heading for the end of the 60s.

What changed? 

I don't think the Staff to  Rail user interface has changed that much, except there are certainly fewer from the Railway 'family' background. There are, including Drivers, on board Staff, Station Staff and Signallers, far more Women involved these days at all sorts of levels. 

I don't know, as I've never worked on the Railway, if the Unions are, as some would suggest, insisting on outdated  practices and practise? What I do know is that Railway Staff I know and meet tend(ed) to love their jobs, feel safe in their solidarity and want to serve the Public, despite many of the latter being utter sh1tes.

I have no idea how the damn Franchise system works and neither do many Staff who, locally, have worked for about 5 brands already! 

Local Station Staff I speak to certainly don't express that view, more the continuous tinkering, fiddling and managerial fads get on their wicks. 

Hells' Teeth, what is happening to our beloved interest eh, assuming that most on here ARE interested in the real Railway?

I need to lie down now.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

42 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
If that spells the demise of the pernicious onboard trolley ( XC just one example ),I’m all for it. Oh, just one more obscure desire and here I’m asking for the moon. Could we have trains which aren’t subject to last minute cancellation or termination short of destination ? 

I must agree that in almost all cases most Trollies I've encountered are a PITA and must be a real struggle for the Operators. Seems like so long ago I could still get a Beer from the Trolly on a Train back to Horsham from Chichester (after Barnham?) at the end of a long day at County Hall and area.

Stock is too delicate and Staff are too ... few! You may be disappointed with that last wish.

Phil

[johnofwessex]

I would certainly go for a standard loading gauge/MU system/couplers so as far as is possible everything can work with everything else

[Pinza-C55]

I'd like HS1, HS2 and all forthcoming HSesses to be scrapped as I think they are a flagrant waste of taxpayers money. I'd like that money to be spent on reopening lines which should never have closed.

[Trainshed Terry]

The railways taken back into re nationalised so the profits that are made are put back into improving the net work and not into shareholders pockets. And more freight removed from the roads.

And lines that where closed to be reopened and connected passenger services, bus 🚌 etc etc.

 

 

[jjb1970]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

More of this !

 

in Eastern Europe its fairly common to see locals selling home made  food on the platforms as trains arrive.

whilst thats unlikely to have that here, having coordinated delivery to the carriage enroute by some restaurants enroute might be useful.

 

 

That's quite a common practice globally and works very well in many places. Another variation is travelling food vendors, I don't know whether they buy tickets or whether some railways allow local food vendors to ride between a couple of stations to provide an on-board catering service.

[jjb1970]

11 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

I suggest that a lot of the Rail Networks problems are simply the Managerial and Political issues the whole of the UK suffers from but we lack the insight or will to solve.

 

That's the real worry, it's not just railways but a general malaise. It's not down to a political party either given that the underlying problems have been shared between different political parties when in power. Governments think in terms of the next election and the next headlines. Sometimes the general populace is blamed for wanting everything on the cheap, that's got a certain truth I think but breaks down when it is considered that we don't do railways cheaply, quite the opposite. What seems to happen is we get ridiculously inflated costs followed by half baked cuts to program scope to try and get things under control which gives us the worst of all worlds (an expensive half baked end product). The real problem is less the half baked efforts to try and reduce costs in programs but why they're so bloated in the first place. 

[BachelorBoy]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

If you know where the restaurants are, you can do this already. There was a famous case of a party ordering a full curry dinner as they boarded at Euston, having it delivered to the train as it stopped at Milton Keynes, and enjoying it en-route to Birmingham.

 

This reminds a bit of travelling on the shinkansen in Japan: at every stop, women came on board selling bento boxes of food from that region. 

 

EDIT: I see Japan's not the only place in the world to do this.

Edited July 21, 2023 by BachelorBoy

[AMJ]

Removal of some of the management layers as like NHS there seems to have more layers than an onion which creates a waste of money.

 

At present there seems to be little recruitment of staff needed to be able to run the system which needs to be reversed. 

 

Multi mode trains introduced for lines that can't justify the cost of electrification.  They could charge from 25kv OHLE or even 750v rd rail.  An early pioneer was the battery unit on the Deeside line in Aberdeenshire.  eg Harrogate loop stock could charge in Leeds and York platforms.

 

As most buses have computerised ticket machines the ability to purchase a through ticket for your full journey.

 

Use of correct terminology.  Ensure that all are called passengers not customers.  Railway station etc.

[Reorte]

15 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I must agree that in almost all cases most Trollies I've encountered are a PITA and must be a real struggle for the Operators. Seems like so long ago I could still get a Beer from the Trolly on a Train back to Horsham from Chichester (after Barnham?) at the end of a long day at County Hall and area.

Stock is too delicate and Staff are too ... few! You may be disappointed with that last wish.

Several years ago I was having to travel to and from Basingstoke from Manchester quite regularly. Every time I was heading back the trolley would come around - any sandwiches? All out, sorry! After a few weeks of this the guy just chucked one of the ones for first class at me. The trolleys might be a pain but some of the people pushing them around are fine.

[david.hill64]

Some interesting thoughts here.

 

I have just read Roger Ford's depressing Informed Sources preview. Annual interest on Network Rail's debt is now £2.5bn per year. The industry is now paying more than BR had in subsidy to pay for profligate spending. As others have posted, until that is under control then the future is not as good as it should be. To put that payment into perspective, annual fares revenue is about £10bn.

 

Simplification of the organizational structure would be beneficial. Perhaps that is the intent of GB Rail, but nobody seems to make progress on implementation. There is potential overlap between the roles and responsibilities of ORR, RSSB and RAIB. Could these be amalgamated?

 

ORR appears competent: its report on Hitachi train cracking is excellent. It has also moved reasonably quickly on moving away from EU standards where appropriate: electrification schemes now adhere to standards that are safe and appropriate for the UK structure gauge and ORR has recognized that designing rolling stock to be compatible with UK track would be a good idea. Roger Ford also reports that the new TPE coaches have yaw damper cracking problems. Probably worth a small wager that higher than expected loads are part of the problem.

 

I am not convinced that widespread reopening of closed lines is possible or would be cheaper than new alignments. Before HS2 was chosen a lot of work was done to investigate upgrades of the existing lines, reopening of the GCR route and the conclusion was that HS2 would be cheaper. Of course scope creep has upped the costs as has the increase in construction costs. California High Speed Rail suffers the same issue and closer to home, my proposed house extension which was costed at £60-70k last year has been quoted at £170k by builders. No change in scope, just costs.

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

I would certainly go for a standard loading gauge/MU system/couplers so as far as is possible everything can work with everything else

I wonder when that last happened on Britain's railway network -if ever?  Must have been before continuous brakes became compulsory as there were different, incompatible, braking systems in use back then (in 1889) and that has continued ever since although it as actually got better in the past 30 years.  Different coupling types don't have such a long history, starting really I s'pose in the inter-war years after the Grouping, and things have really only got bad there from around the time HSTs first appeared back in the1970s but they've got much worse in more recent years.

 

So hardly a new problem but at least teh Dellner coupling seems to have become the norm for auto couplings on new stock which is a step forwards.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Trainshed Terry said:

The railways taken back into re nationalised so the profits that are made are put back into improving the net work and not into shareholders pockets. And more freight removed from the roads.

And lines that where closed to be reopened and connected passenger services, bus 🚌 etc etc.

 

 

Haven't you noticed - the railways have been nationalised for some years.  The only things which aren't natioalised are freight operators and open access passenger train operators.  All other passenger train operations in England are run by contractors appointed by  - guess who - DafT (mainly a consequence of their utter incompetence at working the franchise system properly)  hence in some places because it;s all down to 'Govt contracts' service and franchise initiatives to offer better services and improve revenue no longer happen because of the dead hand of state control.

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Pinza-C55 said:

I'd like HS1, HS2 and all forthcoming HSesses to be scrapped as I think they are a flagrant waste of taxpayers money. I'd like that money to be spent on reopening lines which should never have closed.

The last time I looked HS1 was not owned by the UK Govt and the ill-named HS2 seems to be based on increasing the cost as much as possible every chance some nimby gets to do so.  

 

Of course the first question with both should be whether or not they are necessary or useful.  That is certainly the case with HS 2 because building it avoided far more expensive alternatives which would have meant demolishing hundreds of houses apart from costing a lot more.  

 

The main effect of CTRL has been to great improve travel lins between Britain, abeit basically the south-east, and mainliand Europe and cause a reduction in airline services on the London-Paris route.  As the latter would in quite a few cases pass over my house, and I prefer in any event to travel by train, I think CTRL, aka HS1, has been money well spent and it's a pity DB decided not to introduce its service to London.

 

 

[Darius43]

Reading all these posts reminds me of this:-

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[jjb1970]

19 hours ago, david.hill64 said:

I have just read Roger Ford's depressing Informed Sources preview. Annual interest on Network Rail's debt is now £2.5bn per year. The industry is now paying more than BR had in subsidy to pay for profligate spending. As others have posted, until that is under control then the future is not as good as it should be. To put that payment into perspective, annual fares revenue is about £10bn.

 

This is one of the more important reasons why all the program bloat and inefficiency we've seen over the last couple of decades really matters. People might think all that waste on electrification, the IEP program etc (note, I'm not saying electrification or replacing the HST was a waste, quite the opposite it is the way things have been done that was wasteful) doesn't really matter given the bottomless credit card of the government, plenty more where that came from etc, but all that debt has to be serviced or crazily high leasing commitments met. Borrowing to develop infrastructure and to improve the competitiveness of the country is not a bad thing, in fact I'd say borrowing to make a better country is sensible providing debt levels and the nature of debt are kept under control. I am also not against leasing, many organizations have used the lease model for decades (airlines, shipping companies etc) and it's like anything else, it can be done well or it can be done badly. However running up debt because of wasteful and inefficient procurement and management is mot only stupid but leaves a legacy of high costs to service that debt which our offspring are going to be saddled with and which makes it progressively harder to borrow and invest and people should not imagine we are immune from ending up in a situation like many poorer countries where crushing debt costs basically reduce the economy to an effort to try and service debt while trying to avoid defaulting. 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by jjb1970

[KingEdwardII]

Electrification.

Electrification.

Electrification.

[D826]

Simple ticketing, - ironically- at the same time as the prospect of abandoning Travelcards for trips to London raises its head.

 

The perversity of making integrated rail travel less accessible/easy for all sections of society, when we should be maximising sustainable transport modes is just crazy.

 

Climate change deniers aside (The Telegraph seems to be zeroing in on climate change in the next depressing round of distraction politics) - any integrated transport plan would see simple ticketing, and more freight on rail.  

 

As for me - I just want a comfortable seat which lines up with a window.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by D826

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, D826 said:

Simple ticketing, - ironically- at the same time as the prospect of abandoning Travelcards for trips to London raises its head.

The perversity of making integrated rail travel less accessible/easy for all sections of society, when we should be maximising sustainable transport modes is just crazy.

Climate change deniers aside (The Telegraph seems to be zeroing in on climate change in the next depressing round of distraction politics) - any integrated transport plan would see simple ticketing, and more freight on rail.  (There will be no Cats left soon).

 

As for me - I just want a comfortable seat which lines up with a window.

Absolutely.

P

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

Electrification.

Electrification.

Electrification.

That's definitely one of those tihings where I can see people arguing that we need it but I've never understood wanting  it.

[Mallard60022]

24 minutes ago, Reorte said:

That's definitely one of those things where I can see people arguing that we need it but I've never understood wanting  it.

I also think it would be an excuse to close lines (e.g. Newquay, Looe Branch) and promise to introduce alternatives such as Leccy Buses? In some cases long distance lines too, such as (say), those in Wales and the West and those like Worcester Hereford.

There goes the whole of the SR route west of Salisbury for example as it could go via the WR from Salisbury?

Yup, loads more Leecyfication BUT at the savings in Costs by shutting secondary lines.

I'm not kidding here either.

P

[KingEdwardII]

47 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I've never understood wanting  it.

I think that electric traction is by far the best option for railways. Period.

 

And I say that as an enthusiast for preserved lines with steam traction.

 

The UK is way behind in electrifying its railways.

 

Yours, Mike.

[BachelorBoy]

2 hours ago, D826 said:

Simple ticketing, - ironically- at the same time as the prospect of abandoning Travelcards for trips to London raises its head.

 

 

Don't beat me up if this is naive..... but why can't there be an app that sits on top of the current complicated structure and simplifies it?