WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

[phil-b259]

13 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Who’s going to be your internal door lock supplier then ?

 

Any engineering firm capable of making them!

 

Door locks are not jet engines and as such it’s perfectly possible to get a new batch made  (particularly if you make use of ‘off the shelf’ solutions rather than seek exact replicas of BR locks)

 

 

 

[rodent279]

9 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Any engineering firm capable of making them!

 

Door locks are not jet engines and as such it’s perfectly possible to get a new batch made  (particularly if you make use of ‘off the shelf’ solutions rather than seek exact replicas of BR locks)

 

 

 

Would they need a new safety case?

If you've got CDL and a power supply, why not fit push button door locks, such that pushing the button releases the door lock, allowing it to swing open under is own weight, in a controlled manner?

[ardbealach]

If the steam hauled train stalled at Glenfinnan today and even 'hand sanding' didn't get it moving.  Anyone any thoughts on this?  As far as I know there has never been problems in the past.  

 

Or is the replacement rake heavier than the previous regular set and certainly not added weight from the number of passengers on board - or was there brake drag if vacuum stock was used? (Alisdair)

[Jeremy Cumberland]

6 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

If the steam hauled train stalled at Glenfinnan today and even 'hand sanding' didn't get it moving.  Anyone any thoughts on this?  As far as I know there has never been problems in the past.  

 

Or is the replacement rake heavier than the previous regular set and certainly not added weight from the number of passengers on board - or was there brake drag if vacuum stock was used? (Alisdair)

Or perhaps LSL staff had been dispatched with some oil cans and tubs of grease. Someone said earlier in this thread that the current saga resembles an Ealing comedy. I would be loth to cast WCRC in the role of the preservationists in The Titfield Thunderbolt, but I can easily imagine a Harry Hawkins.

[Morello Cherry]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Not to mention as ECTS as it creeps northwards from London - it might not get everywhere but you can imagine there will be limited lines where steam will eventually be able to operate without ECTS.  The A1 project are spearheading the design of the ECTS application onto a steam locomotive, they were also meant to be then fitting it to a WCRC/RIley Black 5 and an LSL Black 5.

 

It is ironic given WCR's erm er, 'track record' that Riley's own website has this to say about 45212

 

Quote

This comprehensive overhaul included attention to the boiler motion and running gear, installation of air brakes and AWS. 45212 is one of only two steam locomotives to be fitted with the latest in safety technology in the form of TPWS four and the DR3000 On Train Monitoring and Recording systems.

 

https://rileysuk.com/our-locomotives

WCR seem to be engaged in one long bout of petulant, entitled dummy spitting. I am only surprised that they haven't threatened to hold their breath or to scream until they are allowed to do whatever they want.

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Would they need a new safety case?

If you've got CDL and a power supply, why not fit push button door locks, such that pushing the button releases the door lock, allowing it to swing open under is own weight, in a controlled manner?

Simply swapping one type of manually operated mechanical locking mechanism to another would, in railway terms probably considered in much the same way that swapping one type of point machine to another is dealt with - I.e. providing no changes are made to the controls then it can be done as a maintenance activity by maintenance staff and tested using maintenance testing procedures.

 

By contrast re-inventing the whole door system and simply letting a door swing open under gravity and in an uncontrolled manor* would not be considered as replacing a manual mechanical lock with an ‘operationally equivalent’ system due to all the new elements which were not present on the old system and as such mean far more approvals / testing would be needed.

 

Such a system would also probably cost far more than simply making a drag batch of manually operated mechanical locks….

 

 

* Given the dangers of an uncontrolled** hinged door hitting passengers on the platform as it opens and potentially causing injuries I doubt it’s a solution which would pass a proper risk assessment
 

** if it has to be moved by a person then that person can be said to have the ability to control and stop the opening process if needed.

Edited April 15 by phil-b259

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Any engineering firm capable of making them!

 

 

Bombardier need some work…

[Ian Hargrave]

21 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Bombardier need some work…

Indeed it does.But it needs bigger stuff than this…..

[rodent279]

46 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

* Given the dangers of an uncontrolled** hinged door hitting passengers on the platform as it opens and potentially causing injuries I doubt it’s a solution which would pass a proper risk assessment

But if the doors are under the overall control of CDL, there would be no more risk of that than with a door with conventional manual handles under the control of CDL. All the push buttons would do is allow the door to be pushed or pulled open once CDL has released the main door lock.

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Indeed it does.But it needs bigger stuff than this…..

Maybe 130 coaches all needing cdl locking, could offer a good deal to wcrc…

Do the door handles, CET toilet tanks, fit air brakes and a repaint all at the same time.

 

seems like Bombadier/Alstom and WCRC could have some business for each other, and a quick solution to a political jobs problem in an election year.

 

Edited April 16 by adb968008

[adb968008]

On 14/04/2024 at 14:31, adb968008 said:

Just passed some shiny mk2defs at Southall in wcrc livery cdl fitted. (Theres some wrecks here to, but lets not be confused those are in vtec/IC).

 

as the GBRailtour is somewhere north, and another rake to FTW, it looks like wcrc has a third rake underway.

 

 

Ive got ids as 6115.. last seen in 2018, and 9493 last seen on the windermere shuttles in 2018.

 

The GBR railtour also has some long term hibernating coaches, oldest is 9 years since last seen.

Todays train was 3360 (2015), 1860(2023), 6103(2018), 21266(whl for years), 6022 (2015), 4951(2021), 6000(2018).
 

as for slipping to a stand, when was the last time something went tender first to Mallaig ?

 

Edited April 15 by adb968008

[ruggedpeak]

4 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Maybe 130 coaches all needing cdl locking, could offer a good deal to wcrc…

Do the door handles, CET toilet tanks, fit air brakes and a repaint all at the same time.

 

That might actually add up to the £7m figure WCRC was putting out!

[Jeremy Cumberland]

28 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Ive got ids as 6115.. last seen in 2018, and 9493 last seen on the windermere shuttles in 2018.

They were both in the Easter 2019 Windermere formation (6103 was the other coach). I didn't think 6115 was used in the 2018 trains; the only numbers I have are 6103-6000-9493.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Indeed it does.But it needs bigger stuff than this…..

Yeah, it was a little tongue in cheek

[Matt37268]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Or perhaps LSL staff had been dispatched with some oil cans and tubs of grease. Someone said earlier in this thread that the current saga resembles an Ealing comedy. I would be loth to cast WCRC in the role of the preservationists in The Titfield Thunderbolt, but I can easily imagine a Harry Hawkins.

Seriously? I know that there’s no love lost between 5A and 10A but if someone from LSL reads your post and takes it the wrong way, would you be able to back up those allegations? 

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

I've just found that Mr Wolmar did a piece in the Spectator entitled "Don’t blame health and safety for killing the Harry Potter steam train" a couple of weeks ago.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dont-blame-health-and-safety-for-killing-the-harry-potter-steam-train/

 

He doesn't mince his words:

 

"Should we be tempted to regard the safety risks on a few puffa trains as being nothing much to worry about, it should be noted that West Coast Railways has form on potential dangers of this sort. The company was involved in what, in my 30 years of writing about the railways, came close to becoming one of the worst disasters in British railway history."

 

I will let readers guess what he is referring to.........

I rarely agree with Mr Wolmar but on this occasion I can make an exception.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Bombardier need some work…

Who?????

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Who?????

lol is it Alstom now.

 

Maybe I should stick to BREL Litchurch Lane, safer. 😀

[25901]

WCRC and ORR could now be in talks about fitting WLD to all the Scottish stock (weather lockout devices)

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, 25901 said:

WCRC and ORR could now be in talks about fitting WLD to all the Scottish stock (weather lockout devices)

How would they be opened in an emergency?

[25901]

8 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

How would they be opened in an emergency?

If WCRC are fitting it we have about 20 yrs to figure that problem out lol

[Michael Hodgson]

12 hours ago, 5944 said:

Because in their wisdom, rather than sending one of their dozen or so ETS fitted 47s/57s up the Fort William, the ranch dispatched 47245. The other two WCRC locos up there are a pair of non-ETS fitted 37s.

 

I really feel for the passengers today. You have two hours in cold, very wet and very windy Mallaig, and your train back is a set of cold, dark Mk2s that have been parked up for years until this week. WCRC are massively shooting themselves in the foot with this farce of an operation.

Welcome to the West Highlands!  Which train are ye going back on?

They should throw in a swarm of midges to complete the effect.

[jamie92208]

16 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Any engineering firm capable of making them!

 

Door locks are not jet engines and as such it’s perfectly possible to get a new batch made  (particularly if you make use of ‘off the shelf’ solutions rather than seek exact replicas of BR locks)

 

 

 

 

Pivkersgill Kaye in Leeds will supply all the locks you need with the the required railway certification, off the shelf.  As I mentioned before, it was they who did some of the original research on doors that flew open. 

 

Jamie

Edited April 16 by jamie92208

[uax6]

I've got a question here: How is CDL controlled throughout the train? I'm guessing that it needs another set of jumpers or is it done over the Carriage Lighting Circuit's? Either way I'm supposing that the Mk1's in that rake have still had to have money spent on them to allow the CDL in the other vehicles to work, and they will be dual braked too, so why not just fit CDL to them and be done with it (I'm surprised that the Buffet isn't already CDL fitted so that it can run in the Mk2 rake)?

 

Andy G

[25901]

8 hours ago, uax6 said:

I've got a question here: How is CDL controlled throughout the train? I'm guessing that it needs another set of jumpers or is it done over the Carriage Lighting Circuit's? Either way I'm supposing that the Mk1's in that rake have still had to have money spent on them to allow the CDL in the other vehicles to work, and they will be dual braked too, so why not just fit CDL to them and be done with it (I'm surprised that the Buffet isn't already CDL fitted so that it can run in the Mk2 rake)?

 

Andy G

Buffet has no booked passenger seating. Doors are locked and only to be used by staff.