How to wire a new layout

[fordend]

The attached plan shows my new layout with the power connection

When either of the two points are operated to allow access to the sidings their appears to be a short circuit

All points are electrofrog 

 

Would it be possible to advise me what would be required to allow these to operate

Thanking you in anticipation

 

Doug Bailey

[Dungrange]

If they are Electrofrog points, have you used insulated rail joiners on both rails that form the common crossing (the frog) as per the instructions for Electrofrog points?

 

You need to ensure that you are always feeding points from the 'toe' or switch end, which means an additional set of feeds in your loop, which is the reason for needing to separate that loop from the 'main line' through the use of insulated rail joiners.  Assuming that is the finished track plan, then you would actually only need four insulated joiners (ie the ones in the centre of each crossover).

 

Edit:

As @Jeremy Cumberland points out below, you also need an insulated joiner on the outer rail of the inner loop to avoid the short circuit that would result if only one of the mainline points is set to the loop, which makes the minimum number of insulated joiners five not four.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Dungrange

[Jeff Smith]

Is this for DC or DCC?  Are you using the points to isolate the sidings?

[Graham108]

You're sidings won't work regardless of success in identifying the source of your shirt circuit

[Jeremy Cumberland]

You need a minimum of five insulated joiners:

• One on each rail of each crossover, between the points
• One on the outer rail of the inner loop

You also need a power feed to the outer loop.

 

If the layout is DCC, this might be enough (although the sidings won't be powered unless the points are set, so you'll have no lights or sound), but for DC it isn't very satisfactory unless you only have one train on the layout. With DC, a better arrangement would be to have four insulated joiners on the inner loop, one on each rail immedinately behind each set of points, have a separate power feed on the inner loop, and have isolation switches for each of the power feeds (or the two loop power feeds at any rate), so you can have one train on the inner loop and another train on the outer loop, and you can decide which one you are going to drive.

 

If you want to do any kind of shunting on the outer loop and sidings, such as taking a locomotive off one end of a train and putting it into a siding, then driving a locomotive from the other siding onto the other end of the train, it would be better to have isolated sections in the sidings, and not just rely on the way the siding points are set. If you want to do this at the same time as driving a train round the inner loop then you will need a separate controller, and then you might then want a way of switching the main oval track feed between the two controllers.

 

Exactly how you wire the layout depends on how you want to operate it. There is no one "right" way, so we can't tell you exactly what to do, but there are quite a lot of different wrong ways, and we can help you try to avoid them.

[fordend]

Thanks for the comments, just to clarify this layout is DC and the points are used to isolate the sidings

 

Regards

 

Doug Bailey

[RobinofLoxley]

Find Brian Lamberts pages on model railway elecrics and take it from there. 

[Harlequin]

Hi Doug,

 

You've been asking basically the same question for 6 years now:

 

Did the previous layouts work successfully or are you still searching for an answer to the original question?

 

Phil

Edited July 25, 2023 by Harlequin

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Doug,

 

You've been asking basically the same question for 6 years now:

Did the previous layouts work successfully or are you still searching for an answer to the original question?

 

Phil

 

A previous manager of mine once said "If you ask the same things, you get the same answers".

Since the same thing was asked 6 years ago, maybe a different approach may be helpful. Instead of asking the same thing on a forum, maybe a local club would be able to provide help a different way?

[fordend]

The other layouts worked okay however I still have problems with this question for my new layout. Despite reading Brian Lamberts notes and advice from members I am unable to grasp the electrics side of the hobby so excuse me for being a bit thick

 

Doug Bailey

[Joseph_Pestell]

28 minutes ago, fordend said:

The other layouts worked okay however I still have problems with this question for my new layout. Despite reading Brian Lamberts notes and advice from members I am unable to grasp the electrics side of the hobby so excuse me for being a bit thick

 

Doug Bailey

I have a similar "block" with electronics. Amos is better than any sleeping medication. Fortunately, I can usually find an electric solution using old-fashioned kit (switches and relays).

 

Jeremy is right that the best solution will depend on what the layout is portraying. So a slightly more detailed plan, showing platforms, buildings, etc. would help.

[Harlequin]

Here's a diagram of @Jeremy Cumberland's solution showing the rails and the 5 insulating joiners:

 

 

The blue rails change polarity depending on which way the turnouts are set.

 

I hope this makes it clear.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Harlequin

[RobinofLoxley]

Under the circumstances insulfrog points may have been a more straightforward option

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, fordend said:

The other layouts worked okay however I still have problems with this question for my new layout. Despite reading Brian Lamberts notes and advice from members I am unable to grasp the electrics side of the hobby so excuse me for being a bit thick

 

Doug Bailey

 

I have met many who find electrics hard to understand, so please do not think you are alone.

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Under the circumstances insulfrog points may have been a more straightforward option

 

I agree, but in a previous query the OP said he uses code 75, which is only available in Electrofrog.

[fordend]

Thank you all for your advice and guidance which is much appreciated. The layout is now fully wired and all areas can be reached

 

The layout plan from harlequin was particularly helpful and I hope note to trouble you again for another 6 years

 

Regards

 

Fordend

[kevinlms]

21 hours ago, fordend said:

Thank you all for your advice and guidance which is much appreciated. The layout is now fully wired and all areas can be reached

 

The layout plan from harlequin was particularly helpful and I hope note to trouble you again for another 6 years

 

Regards

 

Fordend

I do hope you make more progress within the next 6 years! If you aren't asking questions, then you probably aren't making progress on your layout - just like me!

 

Or else you're a know all - of which I'm sure you aren't. 😇