When is it right to tweak reality on an exhibition layout in order to entertain the paying visitor?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I've been putting more thought into this and there is something I can 'get away with' because China is such an unknown country as far as 99.9% of viewers are concerned.

 

If I was being 100% accurate in portraying China in 2001 (as I attempt to do) most diesel hauled trains would be green DF4's - the Chinese equivalent of a blue class 47 - and most passenger trains would be hauled by a blue & white DF11 - the Chinese equivalent of a Deltic. But each of my diesel-hauled trains has a different class of loco or at least a different colour of loco where the same class is repeated  in one case. So, again each train has it's own personality. Each loco was a 'possibility' in NE China in 2001 but in reality you would never see the variety of locos you see on my layout at one location on one day - but 'That's showbiz!'

[Michael Hodgson]

6 hours ago, BR60103 said:

 At least one person was heard saying that they didn't realise that England went on beyond Cornwall.

 

 

I didn't think it was still England beyond Devon!

[Chris M]

41 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I've been putting more thought into this and there is something I can 'get away with' because China is such an unknown country as far as 99.9% of viewers are concerned.

 

If I was being 100% accurate in portraying China in 2001 (as I attempt to do) most diesel hauled trains would be green DF4's - the Chinese equivalent of a blue class 47 - and most passenger trains would be hauled by a blue & white DF11 - the Chinese equivalent of a Deltic. But each of my diesel-hauled trains has a different class of loco or at least a different colour of loco where the same class is repeated  in one case. So, again each train has it's own personality. Each loco was a 'possibility' in NE China in 2001 but in reality you would never see the variety of locos you see on my layout at one location on one day - but 'That's showbiz!'

I’m pretty sure all layouts run a greater variety of stock than would ever have been seen in one day. It is reasonable to run locos that would have been seen during an era though not all on one day.

[john new]

Interesting question in the OP. I was doing a weathering/painting demo at the Bridport show last Saturday. It was the unorthodox technique with cheap material I was demoing so needed to show it worked rather than aiming at subtlety. A couple of the overly scruffed up van roofs I did will be redone for me before I regard them as finished items. 

[Michael Hodgson]

59 minutes ago, Chris M said:

One tweak from reality that is caused by layout builders taking no action is not weathering stock. Pristine stock straight out of the box just looks so "plastic" that it ruins any semblance of realism - one or two clean items might be ok but really most stock should be gently weathered. 

 

You probably don't go a lot on many Continental layouts then - they tend to have very high mountain scenery, immaculate buildings and pristine rolling stock.

 

Before BR was privatised elderly people spoke with affection for the good old days of the GWR et al - no doubt forgetting the overcrowding and delays they suffered during WW2.  On mainland Europe they still tend to model idealised railways and scenery, whereas realistic squalour is more British thing - perhaps John Masefield should have been a railway modeller?

 

Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack,

Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,

With a cargo of Tyne coal,

Road-rails, pig-lead,

Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

[Chris M]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You probably don't go a lot on many Continental layouts then - they tend to have very high mountain scenery, immaculate buildings and pristine rolling stock.

 

 

I have been to Switzerland and Austria a number of times and they are amazingly clean (and pretty) countries. I can see why models tend to be the way they are. The real trains of Switzerland are kept quite clean but they still have road dirt around the underframes and less than sparkling roofs.  I think is the case on all railways around the world. You can keep the sides (and even the ends) clean and shiny but the underframes and bogies will become less than clean within a couple of days of entering service. Likewise the roofs will slowly loose their shine over the first month or so of service. 

The time of year may well affect cleanliness. I’m sure locos get a lot dirtier a lot quicker during the damp winter months than they do during a (sometimes) dry period in the summer. 

[john new]

14 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I have been to Switzerland and Austria a number of times and they are amazingly clean (and pretty) countries. I can see why models tend to be the way they are. The real trains of Switzerland are kept quite clean but they still have road dirt around the underframes and less than sparkling roofs.  I think is the case on all railways around the world. You can keep the sides (and even the ends) clean and shiny but the underframes and bogies will become less than clean within a couple of days of entering service. Likewise the roofs will slowly loose their shine over the first month or so of service. 

The time of year may well affect cleanliness. I’m sure locos get a lot dirtier a lot quicker during the damp winter months than they do during a (sometimes) dry period in the summer. 

And even Switzerland has graffiti.

[BachelorBoy]

21 hours ago, Chris M said:

Layouts running a much higher frequency of trains than they should are a very important and good tweak. Likewise a little branch that uses more than one loco is quite a big tweak but nevertheless important for entertainment. 

 

 

 

Think about your layout as an indoor outdoor museum.

 

The buildings and trams, etc at Beamish, for example, are authentic (or accurate replicas).

 

But much like realistic models of actual buildings or locos on a model layout, but they never would have been placed together in that way in real life. LIke on a layout, distances are heavily compressed.

 

Visitors know Beamish is contrived. They know that the people in the old clothes are volunteers acting a part. They don't mind.

 

And visitors enjoy themselves. They learn about history by seeing things in context.  Even serious historians may approve. It's good to ride on a working tram, and you understand life in the 1920s/30s etc in a different way to seeing a tram on static display in a museum. Beamish complements those traditional museums

 

You can display a beautifully made, scratch-built loco in a glass cabinet. People get much closer than if it's on a layout and can appreciate the skill it took to create, and see the tiny details.

 

But run the model on a layout at an exhibition, and visitors can see it context.

 

And if you have several different locos that might plausibly have run on your layout, geographically and historically, if it existed in real life, then run them. You are providing authentic-feeling context to them.

 

Do turn on the lights in those carriages so people get an idea what Chinese trains are like.

 

Bone-headed purists who crave "prototypicality" and, pedantically, only have one train movement every four hours may feel superior to layout operators who please the crowds by "playing trains". How ghastly!

 

Exhibition managers are unlikely to invite them back. 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by BachelorBoy
Deleting excessive blank space

[fulton]

56 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

 

Bone-headed purists who crave "prototypicality" and, pedantically, only have one train movement every four hours may feel superior to layout operators who please the crowds by "playing trains". How ghastly!

 

 

 

I once visited an exhibition in Holland, the operators on one layout were doing just that, it was a large, probably scale length, branch, very nice modelling, very nice stock in the staging, never seen anything move as it wasn't time, I think there were four trains scheduled that day! We all have to tweak reality, very few of us have room to build full size, even if we did, could you transport and set up such a layout, with the crew available, as a visitor I want to see trains moving, as an exhibitor I also want to play trains, sorry operate. Photo of my layout at the recent Exeter show, this is actually scale size, but with the trackwork tweaked, try to have constant switching/shunting going on, the carfloats act as the staging.

[Chris M]

Every layout builder/owner will have their own set of tweaks/rules. I actually have different rules, or tweaks to reality for different layouts. Its all about what the builder is trying to achieve. On my garden railway trains from different continents can sometimes be seen running at the same time; the important thing is that the sun is shining (anyone remember the sun shining). At the other extreme, on my Dawlish Warren layout I won't run anything that hasn't been through the real place, even when I am running things alone at home.  I admit I have made other tweaks on Dawlish Warren, almost all are to make it fit the space I have. At exhibitions we just run a stream of trains, some stopping, some running through. As soon as one train gets into the storage sidings another is sent out. The real place is quite busy but nowhere near as busy as we make it so that's another major tweak. I like to run to a sequence at home as this creates a logical even flow of trains. We did try running to a sequence at an exhibition once but found that it required too much concentration when running for a whole day. I think running the way we do is both entertaining and still reasonably accurate.

 

At exhibitions, operators sometimes bring in their own tweaks. I'm quite hard on these if I spot them. For instance when running 1968 stock I sort of upset a friend and helper because I did not want him running his DMU with speed whiskers with the 1968 stock. I would have allowed it if we were running 1963 stock (but only just). Maybe I am too fussy but the layout has to be correct to what I think it should be otherwise I don't enjoy exhibiting. 

 

At home I sometimes go a bit wild and run contemporary stock with the 1960s/1970s buildings and semaphores in place!  I would consider it wrong to do this at an exhibition, unless it was requested by the exhibition manager. This could happen if a show was very short on contemporary layouts but I'm not sure how comfortable I would feel about it.

[newbryford]

On 04/08/2023 at 08:29, Chris M said:

The biggest and to my mind most unsatisfactory "tweak" compared to reality is that so many layouts are so obviously track laid on a flat baseboard with scenery built around it. Sad to say a lot of exquisitely modelled  finescale layouts suffer from this problem. Surely by now all layouts should be built using open baseboards with land levels being both above and below track height.

 

 

 

Not all layouts need to have elevation.

 

When I was setting up Deadmans Lane at a show, a couple of other exhibitors walked by and remarked that my layout was too flat.

It is based upon the RTC site at Derby. 

Can't see any hills in this pic. (My pic - taken on site with permission)

The deepest part of the layout are the inspection pits in the EDU building - but I have slightly exaggerated the climb on the mainline towards Long Eaton.

Edited August 5, 2023 by newbryford

[BR60103]

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Not all layouts need to have elevation.

 

When I was setting up Deadmans Lane at a show, a couple of other exhibitors walked by and remarked that my layout was too flat.

It is based upon the RTC site at Derby. 

Can't see any hills in this pic. (My pic - taken on site with permission)

The deepest part of the layout are the inspection pits in the EDU building - but I have slightly exaggerated the climb on the mainline towards Long Eaton.

 

You have violated unwritten rule of modelling #1: Thou shalt not model the prairies or any other site that would be comfortable on a sheet of plywood.

[BR60103]

19 hours ago, fulton said:

I once visited an exhibition in Holland, the operators on one layout were doing just that, it was a large, probably scale length, branch, very nice modelling, very nice stock in the staging, never seen anything move as it wasn't time, I think there were four trains scheduled that day!

I wondered about modelling a branch line terminus on a Saturday in real time, where the train of the day departs at 8:00 am and returns at 6:00 pm.

 

[Chris M]

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Not all layouts need to have elevation.

 

When I was setting up Deadmans Lane at a show, a couple of other exhibitors walked by and remarked that my layout was too flat.

It is based upon the RTC site at Derby. 

Can't see any hills in this pic. (My pic - taken on site with permission)

The deepest part of the layout are the inspection pits in the EDU building - but I have slightly exaggerated the climb on the mainline towards Long Eaton.

Agreed, but a depressing majority of exhibition layouts still look like track laid on a flat board with bits of scenery built up around the track when they shouldn't.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 04/08/2023 at 08:29, Chris M said:

The biggest and to my mind most unsatisfactory "tweak" compared to reality is that so many layouts are so obviously track laid on a flat baseboard with scenery built around it. Sad to say a lot of exquisitely modelled  finescale layouts suffer from this problem. 

YES, I note your use of inverted commas - it's really the opposite of a tweak which is designed to make things more interesting than reality - it's a "tweak" that makes things less interesting than reality.

9 hours ago, newbryford said:

Not all layouts need to have elevation.

And also 'YES' to you as well.

 

Both contrasting opinions are valid in contrasting situations. It's a case of 'horses for courses'.

 

EXAMPLE : The double- track main lines on my Chinese layout are dead straight and the exhibition manager of a well-known major exhibition posted on RMweb that he would never book my layout because he didn't like layouts with dead straight track, he liked layouts where the track swayed artistically across the scene.

 

PROBLEM: My layout is set inside an expanding Chinese city and typically the tracks are dead straight -  that was a given when I designed the layout, that is one of it's USP's. When Chinese cities expanded into virgin territory they tended to expand in straight lines. This is not a perfect photo, but you can see my point - I hope.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by TEAMYAKIMA

[BachelorBoy]

4 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

EXAMPLE : The double- track main lines on my Chinese layout are dead straight and the exhibition manager of a well-known major exhibition posted on RMweb that he would never book my layout because he didn't like layouts with dead straight track, he liked layouts where the track swayed artistically across the scene.

 

PROBLEM: My layout is set inside an expanding Chinese city and typically the tracks are dead straight -  that was a given when I designed the layout, that is one of it's USP's. When Chinese cities expanded into virgin territory they tended to expand in straight lines. This is not a perfect photo, but you can see my point - I hope.

 

Chinese roadbuilders sometimes have to add wiggles to accommodate "nail" houses.

 

I'm sure there must be at least one railway line that ran into similar problems that could be modelled....

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

15 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

Chinese roadbuilders sometimes have to add wiggles to accommodate "nail" houses.

I'm sure there must be at least one railway line that ran into similar problems that could be modelled....

 

Yes, good point - very odd situation in what we like to call a totalitarian state 😉

Edited August 6, 2023 by TEAMYAKIMA

[john new]

5 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

Chinese roadbuilders sometimes have to add wiggles to accommodate "nail" houses.

 

I'm sure there must be at least one railway line that ran into similar problems that could be modelled....

 

 

Something similar around a farm on the M62 in the UK. From memory just inside the Yorkshire side of the County boundary with t’other lot.

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

Chinese roadbuilders sometimes have to add wiggles to accommodate "nail" houses.

 

I'm sure there must be at least one railway line that ran into similar problems that could be modelled....

 

 

 

They built a cut n cover "tunnel" across the Clitheroe-Hellifield line at Gisburn, so the landowner didn't have to see the railway.

Flickr pic

 

[Northmoor]

15 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

EXAMPLE : The double- track main lines on my Chinese layout are dead straight and the exhibition manager of a well-known major exhibition posted on RMweb that he would never book my layout because he didn't like layouts with dead straight track, he liked layouts where the track swayed artistically across the scene.

Oh I bet he absolutely LOVED having that power over choice of layouts.  Speaking as someone who lives near and regularly uses the LSWR main line, some railways, even in the UK, can be very straight. 

 

Personally, I also prefer gentle curves (but NOT for the sake of it, that always shows), but I've seen your layout in the flesh and it's superb.

[jjb1970]

I think the answer is, as with most things, it depends.

 

If you take a layout to a finescale exhibition I think it reasonable to assume the audience expect a good standard of accuracy and prototypical operation. 

 

If you take a layout to a more generalized exhibition which is hoping to attract people from outside the hobby, bring normals into the hobby etc then entertainment probably trumps prototypical operation and it's about putting on a good show.

 

And of course there are all sorts of variations on this, with a sliding scale between the extremes of finescale and just run anything for a good show.

 

It doesn't have to be either/or, I see no reason why a layout operator couldn't offer different sessions, prototypical running in one session, then have a bit of fun at other times.

 

And really, if the operator wants to run anything, then it's their layout. My own personal preference is that I like layouts with a lot of action and have no issue with running anything (I've seen overseas trains make appearances on UK layouts and enjoyed it) but I do get turned off by silly speeds, jerkiness, every station arrival being an emergency brake application (and then some) and sound levels set at silly volume level. I'm not a fan of sound anyway, but many layouts set volume at levels which create a huge incongruence between what is seen and what is heard.

[Chris M]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

I do get turned off by silly speeds, jerkiness, every station arrival being an emergency brake application (and then some) and sound levels set at silly volume level. I'm not a fan of sound anyway, but many layouts set volume at levels which create a huge incongruence between what is seen and what is heard.

I tend to run trains into my platform at a higher speed than I should at exhibitions which is a bit of a tweak. The speed limit in real life for the platform lines is 25mph. At home I love running trains through the points and all along the platform at this speed. At exhibitions I run them just a little faster as I think most visitors would get bored at the time it takes for a train to run the length of the platform. 

It is useful to check what scale speed you are running at. When I checked mine I found that I was generally running my freights a little too slow and my expresses a little too fast. I've been told parcels trains can get a bit of a rattle on. Apparently, back in the 1960s the parcels between Exeter and Newton Abbot was one of the fastest trains over that stretch of line, that may have been due to guy who usually drove it.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Maybe one way to sum everything up, is that 95% of 'reality' is boring.

 

What do I mean by that?

 

If I walk down my local high street on an average day, there is not a building on fire, there are not police cars/fire engines/ambulances with vibrant flashing lights. I will not generally be passing a wedding couple posing for photographs outside a church and it's very unlikely that I will see a funeral taking place.

 

I think the secret is to replicate the 'average' in as extraordinary way as possible as opposed to the 'extraordinary' in an average way. Or to put it in another way, one question I ask myself before I add some new cameo is "Will this be a feature or a gimmick?"

 

Feature = let's do it   Gimmick = no!

 

In the early days of P4 there was quite a large Ex-GWR (I think) branch line built by a P4 pioneer which was in many ways perfect - but boring.

 

It was perfect and boring for the same reason - it was a perfect model of a boring place! There were very few trains, very few people, very few road vehicles - because that was what many country branch lines were like in the pre-Beeching era. The modelling was absolutely superb, the entertainment was virtually non-existent.

Edited August 7, 2023 by TEAMYAKIMA

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Having thought about my last post for 30 minutes or so, I guess the motto should be :

 

"It's better to exhibit a good model based on an interesting place, than a perfect model of a boring place."

 

Obviously, that statement refers to exhibition layouts - it may also apply to home layouts, but that is not the issue under discussion. 

[Geep7]

On 04/08/2023 at 10:10, john new said:

And even Switzerland has graffiti.

As I also model the Iberian Peninsula, most of my Spanish layout and trains should be covered with the stuff, well, at least for the post 90's models. But it's an aspect of real life that I prefer not to replicate in model form.