Newbie question- what do I need for a hybrid model control

[Mysticpuzzle]

Hi All,

 

A complete newbie to model railway here. I am confused with the level of information out there and thought I might ask the experts.

 

I recently got divorced and was looking to take up a project with my 6 year old son to keep him occupied and engaged but also as a father-son time. My son loves the Lego mini land and his eyes light up whenever we come across a model. So I thought, why not.

 

I started reading about this hobby but soon got overwhelmed. I bid on a 8X4 ready made layout on eBay real cheap and ended up winning. When I went to collect the layout, I realized the seller made a blunder with the measurements. It was a 12X7 layout. There is no way this will fit in my house so I declined the collection. The seller however, gave me a big box of model railway tracks, buildings, Hornby Select controller (doesnt work though), and a Hornby e-Link free of cost. I went back to square one.

 

For now, I have narrowed down on the attached layout (8X4), as it meets my son’s expectations: 2-3 trains, shed, couple of stations, turntable, space for sceneries. I initially thought of going with a computer controlled model but am having second thoughts as my son might not find it interesting.

 

My questions are:

 

• Any immediate flaws or limitations in this layout one can think of? I got this from freetrackplans.
• What do I need to have a hybrid kind of a control whereby I can control everything via computer including automation, but also use physical switches for points to switch train routes as an alternative for my son?
• I presume I will have to go the DCC way. If yes, what items do I need to get to achieve the above apart from a DCC controller? A decoder for each of the trains? Anything else?
• Which DCC controller and set-up should I start with. I can spend money but do not want to break the bank. I know this question is like- how long is a piece of thread but what controller would you recommend to your younger self when you started from scratch?

 

I have the following trains which I got cheap off of Ebay:

GWR HST

Eurostar HST

Blue Highlander

Flying Scotsman

 

Once again, apologies if my questions are too basic but it is better to ask for help than end up making costly mistakes. I would really appreciate any help I can get to move forward with this project.

 

Many thanks. 

[Kris]

There is no need to go down the DCC route, traditional DC works just as well, that said DCC can give you sound which might entice your son more. 

[Mysticpuzzle]

Thanks @Kris. I should have mentioned that there will be sounds and lights in the layout so it has to be a DCC.

[zarniwhoop]

I assume the maroon lines indicate some form of elevation, but I could not work it out. From the background track, running anticlockwise I assume that by the front it passes above a double track after climbing for perhaps 5ft in old money, perhaps a bit more (I'm guessing the length of the climb. I read it as staying at that height until it has crossed the line to the engine shed, and then descends. Gradients, particularly smoothing out the ends so that trains don't uncouple, can be a problem - and the more space you use for the transitions, the steeper the rest of the gradient. And then the gradients are on curves, which add resistance. An interesting and possibly discouraging learning experience, if I have interpreted the plan correctly.

 

I'm also not quite sure about the logic of the two (?) lines on the level part for up and down running (if two, there is a point hidden by the elevated line crossing it at the end of the station.

But I assume that you have worked out, to your own satisfaction, how and where the trains will run.

 

The circular black area looks like it is for access - if so, rather small, but it makes me ask: will you have access all around the layout for when trains stall or derail ?  Or is that black area the scenery ?

 

Reading your initial post again, I only see one station (island platform, and another platform leading to the engine shed, but all in the same station).

 

No idea about 'freetrackplans', but many plans in British magazines have been "somewhat ambitious for the space".

[Dungrange]

3 hours ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

My questions are:

• Any immediate flaws or limitations in this layout one can think of? I got this from freetrackplans.
• What do I need to have a hybrid kind of a control whereby I can control everything via computer including automation, but also use physical switches for points to switch train routes as an alternative for my son?
• I presume I will have to go the DCC way. If yes, what items do I need to get to achieve the above apart from a DCC controller? A decoder for each of the trains? Anything else?
• Which DCC controller and set-up should I start with. I can spend money but do not want to break the bank. I know this question is like- how long is a piece of thread but what controller would you recommend to your younger self when you started from scratch?

 

It might have been better to start more than one thread as you're covering a lot of ground.

 

Track plan - assuming the purple lines are retaining walls, I think I understand the concept of the plan.  First question - what is the radius of the inside track?  Many of these plans are drawn with first radius curves (371 mm radius), so your tracks at the left end are potentially first, second and third radius.  That should be okay for the small 0-4-0T in your Blue Highlander pack, but most modern locomotives won't go round first radius curves.  Second radius (438 mm) is normally the design minimum for most stock these days, so unless these curves are second, third and fourth radius, you may have a problem, which means you can only run older trains.

 

Gradients - I understand the appeal of gradients - they were a part of my first layout as a teenager.  However, they are difficult to get right.  Mine were a disaster as the locomotives I had struggled with two coach trains and I've never considered them since.   They work better if you can achieve the headroom required by dropping one track, whilst raising the other as that keeps the gradients more manageable.  The problem is of course that the baseboard construction becomes more difficult, as you're looking at open frame construction.  How good are your woodworking skills?  Some will find this straightforward, others less so.

 

The set-track track centres are much wider than scaling down the real railway, because the curves are much, much tighter than anything on the real railway.  The space between tracks is designed to ensure that two items of stock on different tracks won't touch.  In your case, it would likely be the front end of Flying Scotsman on the inner track coming close to the centre overhand of a Mark 3 coach on the adjacent outer track.  They won't touch, as they're designed such that you have something like 5mm clearance between the items of stock.  However, that won't leave you much room to build whatever retaining structure and parapet walls you think you can fit in that space.  It's easy enough to draw a purple line on a plan, but not nearly so easy to construct a retaining wall in exactly the right place.

 

Platforms - these are very short - ie between two and three feet.  They would look okay with a small tank locomotive and a couple of older coaches, but not really suitable for an HST (even if you are running a seriously short model).  Look at the stock that you already own and measure how long the trains you plan to operate are.

 

I note that there aren't any freight / goods facilities.  That may not be a problem if you're just running trains round and round, but I like shunting.

 

As has already been mentioned - do you have access all round the baseboard?  You're only going to be able to stretch around two feet from the baseboard edge, so ideally you'll have access from both sides.  If you don't then access for track cleaning and derailments might be a problem.

 

As for control, if you're a 'complete newbie' then computer control is a massive step unless you work in a tech field, in which case you may learn quickly.  Yes, DCC would be the way to go, but there is a lot you are going to have to learn first.  To get started in DCC, all you need is a DCC command station and a locomotive decoder fitted in each locomotive.  If you want DCC sound, then you buy sound decoders, which can set you back £120 per locomotive if you look at ESU or Zimo decoders.  However, the Hornby TTS offerings are cheaper.

 

If you want to operate the accessories using DCC, then you will need to buy accessory decoders for each accessory you want to operate (eg point motors, signals etc).  Some accessory decoders will change several accessories - eg four points.  It depends on the accessory decoder you choose.  You can construct a layout control panel with switches and LEDs that will send a signal to the DCC command station to tell it to operate whatever accessory you have selected on the panel.  Something like what Megapoints offer or the DCC Concepts Alpha Mimic panels might provide you with what you need.

 

If you want to head down the computer control route, then you need to divide the track up in to sections and fit feedback modules to each section, which will identify whether that piece of track is occupied or not.  You'll then need a laptop and a proprietary piece of software such as i-Train.  You are then looking at i-Train sending instructions to your DCC command station, which sends out the command to the track and accessories, with the feedback units detecting where your trains are, relaying that information back to the command station via whatever form of control bus you want to use to the command station and then back to i-Train.  There is going to be a lot of hardware there, so you're probably looking a four figure sum for your computer control.

 

If you are serious about computer control, then that will restrict the number of DCC command stations that you should be looking at.  You'll also need to look at the whole system design - there is little point in buying feedback modules which use LocoNet if your command station uses XpressNet as it's command bus.

 

As for a DCC Command station - you really need to visit a retailer and try a number of systems out.  Do you like knobs or buttons?  Do you like something you can hold in your hand, or would you prefer something that's panel mounted?  Do you want something that is touch screen?  Would you want to be able to run trains from a mobile phone?  There are endless possibilities, but the choice of a human machine interface is generally a personal preference.  I have the Sig-na-trak ACE2 (the ACE3 is due out shortly), but if I were starting again, I think I'd be tempted to go for a Roco Z21.

 

However, it is possible to introduce automation without going DCC, by using relays to turn track sections on and off as required.  That is, when a train passes sensor A, a relay cuts the power to section B, thus stopping the train.  One of our club layouts uses a bank of relays to automate the fiddle yard of a DC layout, but I'm not entirely sure how it works other than conceptually, so don't ask me to find the fault when something doesn't work as expected.  The choice between DC and DCC is therefore also related to how comfortable you feel with each technology.

 

If the lights you're envisaging are say buildings, street lights etc, then it doesn't matter whether the layout is DC or DCC.  Similarly, locomotives with lights will still work on a DC layout, it's just that you can't turn the lights on an off by pressing a function key, as you can with DCC.

 

I hope I haven't confused you more than you were when you decided to start this thread, but I'm sure you'll have plenty more questions now. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Dungrange

[Dungrange]

Two questions:

 

3 hours ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

looking to take up a project with my 6 year old son to keep him occupied and engaged but also as a father-son time.

1. Who is the railway really for - you or your son?

 

3 hours ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

I initially thought of going with a computer controlled model but am having second thoughts as my son might not find it interesting.

2. Why computer control?

[The Johnster]

41 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Yes, DCC would be the way to go, but there is a lot you are going to have to learn first. 

39 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

you're only going to be able to stretch around two feet from the baseboard edge,

 

DCC first.  I am in complete agreement with everything that David has said, and would certainly check that your existing locos can be fitted with the chips.  'Cheap off eBay' suggests older models which might present problems with this, not being 'DCC Ready', that is, supplied with a circuit board that a DCC chip will plug in to.  Not all locos can be retro-converted to do this, and your 'Blue Highlander' in particular may be difficult.  As Kris says, the layout will work perfectly well with DC control, and your lights do not necessarily have to have it.  Sounds on board the locos do, but not all of your locos have this as 'Blue Highlander' does not feature this. 

 

I'm not arguing against DCC, but it is a decision that is best made early in the life of a layout, or of a modelling career in general.  This layout is electrically quite simple to wire up and you should consider the (much cheaper) DC option fully before settling the question.  From your son's point of view, it might be preferable to have manually operated points and signals, and to incorporate one or two goods sidings, which will add 'play value'

 

My advice, FWIW, is that this layout and the stock you have so far bought should be regarded as a test of concept layout, with DC control.  It may well be that in two or three years your boy's interest has moved to other things, and you yourself may find that trains are not for you.  But it may well also be that we have two budding modellers on our hands here, and you are both starting a lifelong journey.  If this is the case, I think you will both 'outgrow' this layout, and after a while both have better concepts of what you want from a model railway and how to design and build it; not neccessarily the same concepts, either! 

 

You will then be both in better positions to start afresh with the next layout(s), and these will be the foundation of the rest of your hobby lives.  That would be a good time to opt for DCC, which you will have researched more fully by then, and you will very likely want to be retiring or selling on your older secondhand stock anyway in favour of something newer and better, and you'll have a better idea what you want to spend your money on as well.

 

 

 

Stretching over baseboards second.  Two feet is about the maximum, and if you are thinking about coupling or uncoupling stock or having to reach the trains for any purpose, 18" is more realistic.  Your lad will probably only manage half those distances, but of course he has a lot of growing to do and the problem will resolve itself over time; just keep feeding him!  The height off the floor is relevant to this, as a high baseboard gives a realistic eye-level view of the trains but restricts your reach, while too low is uncomfortable for you but fine for the boy; the answer, as with most things in railway modelling, is a compromise.  Avoid wearing loose clothes when you're operating it as these will be guaranteed to catch on things, derail them, rip them up, and generally cause mayhem.

 

In any case, welcome both to the insanity, I mean hobby.  Keep things simple to begin with, and build on both your layout and your experience.  I advise newbies to avoid 2h bargains, as the reassurance of a warranty is valuable until you build skillsets in maintaining and looking after your models, but I fully realise that you might not want to spend huge amounts of money while you are 'trying the hobby out'.  Always use the largest radius curve that you can in any given space, the larger the better, and your running will benefit from it; very few current larger locos or stock can manage R1 and some have trouble with R2.  Space is The Enemy, even Pete Waterman hasn't got limitless amounts of it, and has to borrow cathederals,   Learn the all important Rule 1*, and enjoy yourself, it's a hobby, that's what it's for!

 

*Rule 1; 'it's my train set and I'll run whatever trains I like on it'. 

Rule 2 and all subsequent; see Rule 1.

[ianLMS]

I would recommend you pick up a book like this to start with.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Railway-Modelling-Construction-Modellers-Library/dp/0900586001/ref=asc_df_0900586001/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=500909826360&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9211282746566188887&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006589&hvtargid=pla-1187797607438&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

 

It will help with explaining the basics for building and operating a model railway which you can take your time to digest and refer back to when you need. There are several different books out there. The one above is the first one that popped up in Google! It covers most things and newer books will have dcc and analogue content to help you decide. 

 

As others have said - its a great hobby, have fun, enjoy it and good luck. 

[RobinofLoxley]

You would be wasting your time trying to build and operate that track plan. For a first attempt the layout should be boring and flat. Look for help from folk in layout and track design section. With an 8x4 board you are limited but you need something that allows those HST's to run.

[Joseph_Pestell]

11 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

You would be wasting your time trying to build and operate that track plan. For a first attempt the layout should be boring and flat. Look for help from folk in layout and track design section. With an 8x4 board you are limited but you need something that allows those HST's to run.

 Flat does not need to be boring. But I do endorse Robin's advice to avoid gradients.  They will too steep in such a small space and not work well.

Cyril (CJ) Freezer drew up a very satisfactory layout for 8' x 4', basically three simple oval tracks with pointwork to allow trains to change between them. The station platforms are down one of the long sides and the pointwork down the other.

Agree with others that DC is much better to start with. If you later want DCC, you can just turn all the switches to ON.

[Dungrange]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

My advice, FWIW, is that this layout and the stock you have so far bought should be regarded as a test of concept layout, with DC control.  It may well be that in two or three years your boy's interest has moved to other things, and you yourself may find that trains are not for you.  But it may well also be that we have two budding modellers on our hands here, and you are both starting a lifelong journey.  If this is the case, I think you will both 'outgrow' this layout, and after a while both have better concepts of what you want from a model railway and how to design and build it; not necessarily the same concepts, either! 

 

I agree entirely, which is why I asked the question below.

 

8 hours ago, Dungrange said:

1. Who is the railway really for - you or your son?

 

Children grow up quickly - over the next few years your son's interests will change and it's highly likely that he'll have lost any interest in model railways before he finishes primary school, simply

because most teenagers don't think model railways are 'cool' - they are just for 'losers'.  They probably have different words nowadays.  My daughter told my wife last week that only old people refer to things as being 'fab' - ie my wife and I are old and out of touch with modern youth culture.

 

You said that the plan presented 

11 hours ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

meets my son’s expectations: 2-3 trains, shed, couple of stations, turntable, space for sceneries.

 

You haven't said anything about your own expectations or desires (beyond computer control).  I'm sure that the 8' x 4' plan presented would have appealed to a six year old me, but it doesn't appeal to the 52 year old me.  If we accept that it's primarily designed for your son (and so that you can spend time together), then you're probably looking at scrapping this layout in maybe five years maximum.  If you think of the expenditure as having a short life, then perhaps spending upwards of £1,000 on DCC sound, and computer control are not the way forward.  It also means that you need to progress quickly, and trying to read up about DCC and automation, and different buses (eg LocoNet vs XpressNet), along with the difficulties in converting older models etc will just put additional pressure on you.  As @The Johnster highlights, the 0-4-0T in the Blue Highlander is not a candidate for plug and play DCC.  Conversion from DC to DCC will require soldering a very small DCC locomotive decoder into a very small space.  How good are your soldering skills, or would you pay someone to undertake the conversions for you?  That becomes the opposite of a bargain from E-bay.

 

You seem to have purchased a number of train sets (eg your Blue Highlander), which should have a DC controller in the box.  It therefore means that going DC is potentially a near zero cost option for you.  Build the baseboard, lay the track (but I'd rework the track plan to get rid of the gradients) and then it will be relatively simple to wire up as a DC layout.  The two of you could be 'playing trains' together later this month.   If it takes too long to be operational, then your son's interest may wane.  Use that time playing with a DC set up to learn about what you want from the hobby.  If DCC computer control is what you want, then you can upgrade once you've done a bit of research.  Unplug your DC controllers and plug in your new DCC command station.  You can then use the layout as a testbed to learn the principles of automation before embarking on something new that will really interest you.  Whether that is just you, or both you and your son will depend on how much fun you have now.

 

As others have said, I'd also start with DC and take tings from there.

 

[NBL]

There is no reason your plan won't work, you've obviously taken the time to get to grips with the track planning software which will have given you awareness of the differences in track pieces etc.

 

The only stumbling block may be the incline but seeing as them layout will mainly be for your son, then if he's anything like I was when I was very young, he'll be driving the trains at 20mph everywhere and will not be looking for or notice any slowing down on the gradient.

 

I agree with what others have said and start with DC, it's easy to then convert to DCC once you have got to grips with the nuances of model railways.

 

Automation can then be added at a later date 

[Dungrange]

26 minutes ago, NBL said:

you've obviously taken the time to get to grips with the track planning software

 

No - the image is just lifted from this website - https://freetrackplans.com/034-8x4-wraparound.html

[Harlequin]

Both you and your son can get full enjoyment from the same layout if you make it as correct as you want for yourself but then let your son put cars in the car parks, dinosaurs in the fields, and drive HSTs and other colourful trains around it at high speed if he wants to! 😄

 

If you follow that path then you might want to avoid the unrealistic flyovers and steep gradients that seem to be common features on FreeTrackPlans. They will also make the layout less reliable and thus less enjoyable for everyone. (There's a reason why FreeTrackplans are free. They're rubbish!)

 

For instance, you can make tunnels that are both realistic for you and will delight your son. There are other things you can do to add delight while keeping it realistic, with varying levels of constructional complexity.

 

I remember the awe I felt for my Dad when he made the first proper layout after an 8*4 board on the bedroom floor. It was no longer another toy - it was clearly more important because part of the house was devoted to it! (It was screwed to the wall in a bedroom.) "I didn't know you could do that, Dad!" Then model railways had to be taken more seriously and I was hooked!

 

How much space have you got? Do you have to stick with a boring flat 8*4 board?

 

[Mysticpuzzle]

Thank you @zarniwhoop, @Dungrange, @The Johnster, @ianLMS, @RobinofLoxley, @Joseph_Pestell and @NBL for sharing your invaluable and unselfish inputs. I will share my takeaways below, as opposed to trying to address various points:

 

1. Layout is key. I tried AnyRail to create one from scratch but got lost soon and gave up. Then I paid someone on Ebay to create a layout for me which did not materialise. So I just picked up a layout off of the internet that remotely seemed to meet my son and my criteria. I did not realize, and have no ability to identify that there were gradients and 1st radius curve in the selected layout. I still have no clue what those red lines mean! :) I will have to go back to the drawing board and re-assess how I will design and finalize a layout. Anyone knows anyone who can help with designing a layout? Apologies if this is an inappropriate question but starting on a layout is a herculean and a confusing challenge for someone new .

 

2. I should start basic i.e. with DC control. It will keep the costs down and help develop the skills, experience and more importantly, interest. It will also cover me in case my son (and I) lose interest later.

 

3. Space and accessibility is important. Thankfully I do have enough space to go around an 8X4 baseboard.

 

4. The model is for my son but I am also getting him interested in technology. I am a massive gadget and automation geek hence was the initial thought of merging both areas of interests.

 

5. I was not particular about the train sets that I now possess. I have collected them over time, since my son first showed interest; and to be honest, I might have paid under £150 (through bidding) for all 4 sets. So a bargain in a sense. If the sets I have don't work, I can resell them and get what might fit the layout so there is flexibility.

 

Thanks again, everyone. If you have any more thoughts, please share.

[Mysticpuzzle]

2 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

How much space have you got? Do you have to stick with a boring flat 8*4 board?

 

 

Thanks Phil. You capture the emotion so well. Space is a constraint, unfortunately, and 8X4 is the largest I can go for.

[Dungrange]

23 minutes ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

Anyone knows anyone who can help with designing a layout? Apologies if this is an inappropriate question but starting on a layout is a herculean and a confusing challenge for someone new.

 

There is a separate sub forum dedicated to track / layout design, which many people post their proposed plans on to get views (as you have done in this thread).  Some members are known to prepare plans based on a users requirements because it's something that they enjoy.  The key is to understand what you are trying to create - what are the important things that the layout must do? - but also be aware of your constraints: you can't build a convincing model of Crewe on an 8' x 4' baseboard (or at least not in 00).

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/66-layout-track-design/

 

27 minutes ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

3. Space and accessibility is important. Thankfully I do have enough space to go around an 8X4 baseboard.

 

25 minutes ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

Space is a constraint, unfortunately, and 8X4 is the largest I can go for.

 

A layout doesn't need to be something in the centre of the room - it could be shelves around a room.  My first layout (the one that wasn't successful because of the gradients) was on a 6' x 4' board and was operated from outside the oval of track.  However, my subsequent attempt was a circa 12" wide shelf along two walls, with a temporary section that could be added across my bed to provide a continuous run.  If you could accommodate a round the walls layout style, then there becomes more scope for longer trains and access can be easier (apart from the need for a lifting section or duck under at the door).

 

An 8' x 4' layout is unwieldy, so perhaps difficult to move about (especially if you are on your own).  That's fine if it's permanently erected, but is this to be housed in a dual use space?

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

 

Thanks Phil. You capture the emotion so well. Space is a constraint, unfortunately, and 8X4 is the largest I can go for.

Same as @Dungrange, can we push at this a little bit:

 

If you've got room for an 8*4 with enough space to move around it, doesn't that mean you could have an 8*4 space and build the layout around the outside?

 

That's simplest to do when the layout can be permanently set up. Would it live in your son's bedroom?  Would he like a layout all around the walls (or partially around)? Would you have time for bouts of construction between visits for him to marvel at when he comes back? 😄

 

If the layout has to be temporary then a layout running around the outside of the operating space is a bit more tricky but still possible. And arguably, easier and safer to set up than a monolithic 8*4, again, as @Dungrange says.

 

[The Johnster]

There are several advantages to going around the walls as opposed to a single board in the middle of, and dominating, a room.  
 

1) There can be several boards joined end to end, say 4’x2’, which are easier to take down and store when not in use if the layout cannot be permanently erected.  And much lighter and less awkward/likely to damage things when you take down/put up. 
 

2) There are no reaching/accessibility issues. 
 

3) The room acts as the operating well and there are no duckunders.  Everybody is getting older.  
 

4) You will almost certainly be able to get a longer run, meaning longer and more realistic trains, and be able to use larger radius curves.  
 

5) Real railways do not go around in circles, most of the time anyway.  They are linear in nature; trains come from somewhere else and go away to somewhere else from a lineside observer’s pov.  Shelf layouts replicate this more accurately, as the observer/operator’s pov is that the train goes out of sight behind him.  Of course he can turn around or move around the room for different povs, but the linear aspect is the same for all povs, meaning that different ‘scenes’ that the trains pass through or call at can be modelled because you can’t see them all at once.  Creates the illusion of size and length. 
 

There are drawbacks; no such thing as a free lunch.  Removable lift-out sections must be provided to clear doorways, and a bedroom may have built-in wardrobe doors to consider as well.   Any room with more than one doorway will need lift-outs for each door, and as these are effectively dead sections in scenic terms, they will eat into your modellable space considerably.  If the layout is not permanently set up, you will have to provide multiplug & socket electrical connections across the board joins and a means of accurately aligning and levelling the rail ends, which are delicate and prone to handling damage.  And, while the lifting and handling is easier, it will take you longer to set up and take down; taking down at the end of a session is an important consideration as it impinges on the next activity, and the faffiness will not appeal to your lad. 
 

Whatever arrangement you choose, middle of the room or shelf around the walls, a permanent or at least semi-permanently set-up layout is much better than one that has to be put away and set up again every time you or the boy want to use it (in fact the boy probably won’t be able to do that on his own for a few years yet, which effectively prevents him playing with it when you are not there to set up for him).  I appreciate that a permanent layout may not be feasible, but it is definitely worth doing if you can manage it at all even if it is sometimes inconvenient.  

[RobinofLoxley]

A free standing 8 x 4 board has quite a lot of weight - some people would choose to break that down into smaller pieces but thats not always convenient. A single piece, from say 9mm ply, will need to be braced to stop it flexing or warping. The bracing has to be planned around the layout, for example so that point operations arent impacted by bracing underneath. This is where Anyrail comes in (Or Scarm, XTrakCad etc) as the planning is critical - you can make any mistake on your computer and correct it in a few seconds. If you are into geekery I'm sure you can master Anyrail, you just need to devote some time to playing with it.

 

Then look at existing proposals - @Harlequin of this parish does layout plans as a service, and there are many proposals in 'Layout and Track plans' in different shapes and sizes, with discussions on optimisation that will enable you to understand the landscape a bit better.

[Steven B]

There are a number of books that will provide good track-plans for a first layout (some of them are actually possible to build!). Get yourselves off to a model railway show and see what you can find. Make a list of what you see on layouts that you like, and just as importantly what you don't like. You'll soon get a feel for what you want to build.

 

For a first effort, have a look at Hornby's track mats - they're supplied in some train sets but you can find many versions on eBay. One would give you a good starting point for building and developing your layout.

 

The other option is to look at Lego trains!

 

Steven B.

[Mysticpuzzle]

Thanks again, everyone. Really helpful and useful information. I will post my requirements in the Layout Design section and see where I go from there.