LNWR locos likely to have been used on Afon Wen line from Bangor

[rhydddu]

Hi all,

 

I'm trying to pull together a set of prototypical LNWR/early LMS locos to run on my model of Dinas Junction on the Afon Wen Line in North Wales. Although excellent, the W.Rear books concentrate on the BR days and just before, and LNWR info is scarce. However I can be pretty sure of the following:

 

• 0-6-2 coal tank. Mixed use. Built 1888, to LMS post 1923.
• 2-4-2 Webb 4ft 6 tank. Local pax/push pull. Built 1883, withdrawn 1906. 
• 0-6-0 + tender 18” Cauliflower goods. Express goods / local pax. Built 1901, fireboxes altered 1924. 
• 0-6-0 + tender Special DX goods. Built 1867. Unlined after 1917, didn’t carry LMS number. Withdrawn Feb 1926.
• Steam railmotor. Runs on own. (1905+). Evidence it ran on Bethesda branch 1906-10, so possible it ran on afon wen too.
• LMS Fowler 4F 0-6-0 & tender. Freight. Built 1928 until BR 1948.

 

However I also have these locos below and I'm carefully considering whether I could make a case that they would have run on the line.

 

• For these two I suppose I could make the case that through passenger trains did run for special occasions:
• 2-2-2 Problem. Express pax. Enclosed splashers. (Nov 1898 - Jun 1906). 
• 2-4-0 + tender Improved Precedent or Jumbo. Express pax. c.1887-1921, some continued a little longer.

 

However these 3 seem pretty unlikely:
 

• 4-6-0 + tender Whale Experiment. Express pax (built 1906, LMS numbered 1927). Seems overkill to use on the Afon Wen.
• 0-8-2 tank 1185 class. Powerful goods. (Built Sept 1915). To LMS. Withdrawn 1951. Seems too powerful for the Afon Wen.
• 0-6-0 tank Crewe special. In LMS days these were purely works shunters. Could they have run as goods engines prior? Built 1873. Withdrawn 1925. 

 

Can any LNWR experts out there offer some guidance?

 

Thanks Colin

[Paul H Vigor]

36 minutes ago, rhydddu said:

Hi all,

 

I'm trying to pull together a set of prototypical LNWR/early LMS locos to run on my model of Dinas Junction on the Afon Wen Line in North Wales. Although excellent, the W.Rear books concentrate on the BR days and just before, and LNWR info is scarce. However I can be pretty sure of the following:

 

• 0-6-2 coal tank. Mixed use. Built 1888, to LMS post 1923.
• 2-4-2 Webb 4ft 6 tank. Local pax/push pull. Built 1883, withdrawn 1906. 
• 0-6-0 + tender 18” Cauliflower goods. Express goods / local pax. Built 1901, fireboxes altered 1924. 
• 0-6-0 + tender Special DX goods. Built 1867. Unlined after 1917, didn’t carry LMS number. Withdrawn Feb 1926.
• Steam railmotor. Runs on own. (1905+). Evidence it ran on Bethesda branch 1906-10, so possible it ran on afon wen too.
• LMS Fowler 4F 0-6-0 & tender. Freight. Built 1928 until BR 1948.

 

However I also have these locos below and I'm carefully considering whether I could make a case that they would have run on the line.

 

• For these two I suppose I could make the case that through passenger trains did run for special occasions:
• 2-2-2 Problem. Express pax. Enclosed splashers. (Nov 1898 - Jun 1906). 
• 2-4-0 + tender Improved Precedent or Jumbo. Express pax. c.1887-1921, some continued a little longer.

 

However these 3 seem pretty unlikely:
 

• 4-6-0 + tender Whale Experiment. Express pax (built 1906, LMS numbered 1927). Seems overkill to use on the Afon Wen.
• 0-8-2 tank 1185 class. Powerful goods. (Built Sept 1915). To LMS. Withdrawn 1951. Seems too powerful for the Afon Wen.
• 0-6-0 tank Crewe special. In LMS days these were purely works shunters. Could they have run as goods engines prior? Built 1873. Withdrawn 1925. 

 

Can any LNWR experts out there offer some guidance?

 

Thanks Colin

Might the 17" Coal Engine have made an appearance?

 

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2016/07/llandudno-junction-1939-1966.html

Edited October 10, 2023 by Paul H Vigor

[Compound2632]

Have you explored the resources of the LNWR Society?

[rhydddu]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Have you explored the resources of the LNWR Society?

Yes I was a member for a bit and there were some useful plans of the station site but I didn’t find any more info really. It’s a time of few photographs in a quiet corner of north wales!

[rhydddu]

37 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Might the 17" Coal Engine have made an appearance?

 

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2016/07/llandudno-junction-1939-1966.html

I think that’s quite likely. The special tank was rather similar but obviously a tank. Such a shame these shed allocations only start in the late 1930s. 

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, rhydddu said:

Yes I was a member for a bit and there were some useful plans of the station site but I didn’t find any more info really. It’s a time of few photographs in a quiet corner of north wales!

 

Their resources are now well-catalogued and the Kenilworth Study Centre people very helpful. But LNWR loco allocations do seem to be an area where not much documentary evidence survives, unlike the LMS period. 

[bécasse]

I suppose that the Bethesda (or another) rail motor might have been tried on the Nantlle branch at some time, but it is unlikely that one worked to Afonwen which wasn't really a terminus in LNWR days as most trains worked through to Portmadoc or Pwllheli or both. Because it was grouped into the GWR it is easy to forget that the Cambrian Railways had very much been within the LNWR's "sphere of influence".

[Miss Prism]

For a relatively minor place, it's strange that it sought to differentiate between its classes of buffet.

 

 

[Paul H Vigor]

https://www.google.com/search?q=LNWR+in+North+Wales+youtube&rlz=1C1GGRV_enGB755GB757&oq=LNWR+in+North+Wales+youtube&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l3.13791j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&ip=1&vld=cid:88716fce,vid:uUYT_cz6T6E,st:0

[Marshall5]

There is this fairly well known photo of a Cauliflower at Dinas in 1925.

Ray.

 

[Steamport Southport]

14 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

For a relatively minor place, it's strange that it sought to differentiate between its classes of buffet.

 

 

 

"I know my place!"

 

Would have been quite a few very rich tourists in the area who probably didn't want to mix with the middle class, never mind the quarry workers.

 

The type of people they built the Snowdon Mountain Railway for. Too posh to walk up it!

 

 

Jason

[rhydddu]

On 10/10/2023 at 23:53, Paul H Vigor said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=LNWR+in+North+Wales+youtube&rlz=1C1GGRV_enGB755GB757&oq=LNWR+in+North+Wales+youtube&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l3.13791j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&ip=1&vld=cid:88716fce,vid:uUYT_cz6T6E,st:0

wow that's an incredible video from 1907, but is surely a London express, rather than loco service. Thanks for sharing though.

 

[Michael Hodgson]

On 11/10/2023 at 13:35, Steamport Southport said:

The type of people they built the Snowdon Mountain Railway for. Too posh fat to walk up it!  😁

 

 

[Paul H Vigor]

Having lived in Shropshire, and currently South West Wales, I have been building quite a collection of LNWR loco classes - some just a wee bit exotic for Swansea Victoria!