Tri-ang Hornby "Tat" - The cardboard baseboard to take 165mm radius track plan

[JimRead]

Hello all,

 

In an idle moment I searched Google for "smallest radius for OO gauge" and Richard Higgins video came up. 9" radius with 0-4-0's on a nice roundy roundy.

 

Well! Thought I what a caper and recalled my failed OO efforts with a Nellie.
So there we are I'm having another go.

 

 

I stripped this X04 down, measured the gear and worm diameter and found that I'd got a 40:1 Scalelink W&G whose diameters are slightly shorter. Some washers under the fixing screw will tilt the motor ..... I hope

 

Then I found a 5Pole armature in a box the shaft is 3/32" (2.35mm), and thought that I would be able to drill the worm out it being a 2mm one. Did a trial drill with my hand pillar drill in some steel. The 2.5mm drill I tried to open the hole was not concentric!

 

Worran Eejit!! Being a silly old fool I then thought of the simplest idea I should have used years ago! The drill, the armature and a diamond file. I soon got it down to 2mm and slid on the worm.

 

Next job is to make a Gaugemaster UF controller using Jonathan Scotts modified circuit so I can test it.

 

Cheers

Edited January 2 by JimRead
Title

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

I found a bit of Veroboard and populated it with the GM UF controller, I can use it as is for my 9" radius & chassis test, it works in it's usual way.

 

 

The chassis both axle holes were worn so I filed the trailing one out a bit top and bottom, drilled and tapped an M3 hole to act as a pivot and introduce a bit of wobble. Might have to file a bit off the motor frame as well if it shorts out, I will find out quite soon. 

 

The driving axle; the 1/8" bushes I'd got went straight into the holes I've squashed those in with a couple of wheels so I can glue the bushes into place.

 

Cheers - Jim

Edited October 14, 2023 by JimRead

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

The first try with the small worm and gear (below the chassis) failed; the gear profile being too small and locking up with my ham fisted approach.

 

Onto the backup plan the bog standard Romford 40:1 W&G. I cut out the motor locating slot from 2mm to 3 mm. By gently filing took it out to 3.5mm so that the gear wheel wobbled the motor backlash.

 

 

I used some 2mm alloy sheet 7x12mm across the frame underneath the motor, it's a tight fit and just right. The motor and gear work perfectly together with no oil and revolve quietly even though driven by my pulsed/feedback controller.

 

To say I'm pleased is putting it mildly.

 

Cheers - Jim

Edited October 16, 2023 by JimRead

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

As soon as I tried the filed down armature I realised that it was not going to work, it isn't revolving concentrically, ah well my fault, daft idea etc.Ahhhh but then I found a 40:1 worm and gear with the worm for X04 motors on eBay and bought them.

 

I also repositioned the bit of alloy so I could get the motor in and out and glued that in.

 

Jonathan Scott's modified circuit of the GM UF (now £57) known as GM_Style.

 

Built from scratch for less than half the above and can be fitted into a layout to your own requirements regarding control placement. If sourced from AliExpress enough to make about 15 controllers.

 

Up next a video and whether this project is to be continued or scrapped. The running must be very nearly as good as 0 Gauge.

 

Video from the start, includes a some of the above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps8nXqA1HrM

Chassis test only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps8nXqA1HrM&t=11m7s

 

 

Cheers - Jim

 

NB Gaugemasters copyright for the UF covers the control panel and the printed circuit board only. The circuit itself is derived from an electric drill controller.

[longchap]

So rewarding to see the application of knowledge and skill produce such excellent results even from an ancient Nellie and your video brilliantly brought it to life.

 

Inspiring work Jim and thank you for demonstrating your talents.

 

Best,

 

Bill

Edited November 16, 2023 by longchap
Forgot to mention the video !!

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

The word "Tat" in the title made me think of Tat Bank Road, Oldbury to Rood End. Throw a stone in any direction and it would bounce off an engineering Co.

 

Mr Dingleberry the owner of the little rail line went to see Mr Hingley at The Tat Bank Ferrous & Engrg Co. actually a scrap yard with grandiose aspirations. Looking over the fence many times Mr D had seen the remains of a loco poking out of a heap and asked Mr H if he could make something with a diesel engine in it. Mr H in his usual man of few words and I can do anything manner replied. "Well; corse, old pal". There we are then Mr H saving a Nellie and this is a model as it was in the scrapyard. Waiting to become NellieD

 

I had doodled track plans for a few weeks, but then as you do I came across @Little Jeeem and his 170mm thread with posts by @bazzer42 and @friscopete and did this drawing. 

 

Would Nellie go slowly and smoothly through a 6.5" - 165 radius curve and what about the couplings. I glued some bent wire to the coupling thingy and broke off the hook bit.

 
The video here shows the result;
From the start includes some of the above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm4kWaUDWCE

Just the test video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm4kWaUDWCE&t=4m47s

 

 

Cheers - Jim

Edited January 2 by JimRead
Video links corrupted

[Little Jeeem]

So much in so little! You obviously have a very vivid imagination Jim, I'm intrigued to see how this comes along.

[sleepyrider]

Enjoying this and your videos. Not an area I know but rather weirdly my daughter has just moved to Rood End so it looks like I'll be getting acquainted with the locality pretty soon. This will give a whole new angle as I watch your model develop!

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

I decided to make the baseboard from card. I'd got lots of A4 greyboard and some A3 as well. I used the A4 under and the A3 on top.

 

With just the box form and one end on a carpet I could twist it about 25mm, well as much as I would dare, my O gauge plywood ones would go further.

 

I knew if I left it box fashion it would warp. Once the diagonals were glued in the twist reduced to about 2mm.

 

A further test with my left hand at one end and the fingers of the other hand under the other end. I leaned as heavily as I could on my left hand and pulled with my right I could feel the board rising under my left hand.

 

The track plan from the drawing worked out OK just moved one crossover from
the curve onto the straight.

 

To draw the curve radii I whipped a pencil onto some calipers. I'd done a point drawing and fiddled with it in software to create a crossover.

 

All radii 165mm to the outer rail.

 

Cheers - J

Edited January 2 by JimRead

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

May I ask how to do the @membersname  so that it shows up as a little icon.

I would like to put in some links to the people who've helped me.

 

Cheers - J

[sleepyrider]

@JimRead

Looks like you put in the @, followed by (no space) the member's name exactly as it's written. A little tab pops up, click on that and it's done. At least that's what just happened on my Android tablet

[JimRead]

Hello Jim,

 

@sleepyrider

Ahhhhh thanks ever such a lot, I'm really grateful.

 

Cheers - J

[APOLLO]

Tat bank sounded interesting, Google brought this up. Some nice photos of "Tat" !!

 

https://captainahabswaterytales.blogspot.com/2020/05/tat-bank-branch-titford.html

 

Brit15

[JimRead]

48 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

https://captainahabswaterytales.blogspot.com/2020/05/tat-bank-branch-titford.html

Brit15

Hello Apollo,

Thanks for the link very interesting to see all those pics.

Little tale from one of the companies the raill line went to; Accles & Pollock they made medical syringe tubes, USA company sent them their smallest A&P sent their smallest inside the USA one. True? Dunno!

 

Shame about your pics some album you've got on Flickr, wow! I had the same and left RMW. This time I use Flickr and hot link all mine.

 

Cheers - J

Edited January 3 by JimRead

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

My Peco track just arrived first time I've ever bought some, always made my own.

I have to lay it onto my card baseboard I would like some advice about sticking it down or any other way of holding it down.  I'd be very grateful for any ideas.

 

Cheers - J

[APOLLO]

I'm a fan of tatty old run down industrial areas with their canals, railways etc, Wigan was full of them and by the 70's most were gone. All gone nowadays.

 

Tat Bank is an apt name. We had in and around the North West some ""wonderful"" names / areas.

Slag Lane (Leigh), Slutchers Lane (Warrington), Nob End (Bolton), Sod Hall (Little Hulton).

 

I'm making a model of the old "New Springs" industrial branch line in Ince Wigan. I have read that this was the first industrial branch line in the world built by the Wigan Branch Railway (off the Liverpool & Manchester).

Lots of industrial choice as shown on the interesting map below. The Hun were after the steel works but were blown off course and caused mayhem elsewhere !!

Springs Branch (The junction and Loco Shed) were just off the map at the bottom.

 

 

As to your track I use Peco foam inlay, pre sprayed & weathered. The pre painted track pins in place and by not using glue is easy to alter. I never permanently fix track / points these days. Pins might not work for you on cardboard though.

 

Brit15

[JimRead]

2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

As to your track I use Peco foam inlay, pre sprayed & weathered. The pre painted track pins in place and by not using glue is easy to alter. I never permanently fix track / points these days. Pins might not work for you on cardboard though.

 

Brit15

 

Hello Apollo,

 

I used to call at engrg companies in Wigan and Hindley they made stuff for Heinz and bought our workholding stuff.

I do like the map I can see that you're an enthusiast, do forgive me if you know of Alan Godfrey  https://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ he reprints large old OS maps from 1880's onwards each with a history of the area.

 

I'll coat the card with Shellac to seal, I do want to ballast it though, those old sidings were laid on ash.  I was thinking of some pins and some glue perhaps Copydex.

 

Cheers - J

[harris0169]

Hi @JimRead - I haven't glued proprietry track but I keep looking at what people do because I want to fix it to Foam. And want track with tight radius which tends to mean it needs fixing well. Haven't really seen answers covering both aspects. 

Here's some ideas...

People do seem to use both PVA and Copydex. In this thread there are some ideas about it.  Quite like the idea in there of wide head pins/tacks to allow adjustment of alignments of track.

https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=40066

Also there is someone who uses Aleene's Tacky Glue here:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/laying-track-with-glue-12192594?pid=1331025468

 

Another thought is to use Impact adhesive...In that direct Email I sent you recently I didn't clarify the glue but it was impact adhesive. Which can apparently be reactivated with heat from a soldering iron...not going to work on a plastic commercial track base obviously!

 

The other thing I thought was if you wanted to use track pins you could glue thin wood (lolly sticks cut up?) under the cardboard baseboard at the places where you want to pin. Then predrill the hole with a pin chuck and push in pins.  I normally use this method with a traditional wooden top baseboard if I don't want track glued permanently)  You could also use this method if you want to solder ends of rail. Maurice Deane (of the Dean pattern Fiddle yard) soldered rail to Gimp pins with heads cut off on one of his layouts.

 

OK...Apologies that I have not tried any of these myself so there is not real life experience.  And I haven't really seen anything to say how to glue tight radius curves without pre-bending rail - and even then I've only guessed this is what was done.  I have info on simple railbenders as well if needed.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[sleepyrider]

I did 7.5" curves on my Christmas display, with a cardboard template on the inside, pva glue and a few nails tapped in round the outside. One end was perfect but I did get a bit of a point at the other that probably reduced the radius to about 6". Thankfully not a problem for the Bachmann tram I was using.

Next time I'd use far more nails, or pins, and put the template round the outside of the curve. I'd also pre bent the track first, not with a rail bender, just bending it flat on the table till it didn't want to go straight anymore.

[JimRead]

Thanks @harris0169 and thanks @sleepyrider

 

Thats really given me some ideas. I've put four coats of Shellac on the card and Eileen has found some Lill pins and a tube of Copydex. I'll have a go today now the Shellac has dried.

 

Good of you both - Cheers J

[JimRead]

Hello there,

 

I laid some track and have done a little video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDY-CI4A9Gw

It does have some of the above about the baseboard from the start, here's the link to the bit just about laying the track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDY-CI4A9Gw&t=6m33s

 

 Cheers - Jim