57XX/8750 -- livery colour question

[Ian M.]

Does anyone know the proper colour for the "Lubricator and blower pipe cover" in GWR green liveries pre-nationalisation? This is the rectangular piece that is just adjacent to the stack on the right side and running lengthways front to back. You can see it below (however, this is a BR(w) all black livery) from the excellent GWR Modelling site's page on the Pannier classes at http://www.gwr.org.uk/nopanniers.html

 

Among the many Bachmann 8750 offerings over the years, I have one ("GWR" #6752, 1st offered in 2001) that has this piece painted black like the adjacent boiler and stack, whereas another ("GWR" #3715, first offered in 2003) that has it painted green like the rest of the engine.  I am assuming the latter is correct, since (1) it is a separate piece from the boiler, (2) based on the later production date of the Bachmann 3715 (did Bachmann learn a livery lesson and correct it by 2003), and (3) have looked to current preserved examples in GWR green (which are not always the best test of original livery details).  That said, I appeal to those in the know as to proper GWR painting practice on these for a definitive result.

 

[Miss Prism]

2 hours ago, Ian M. said:

You can see it below (however, this is a BR(w) all black livery)

 

That is 5764 in green. (I don't recall the preserved 5764 has ever been in black.)

 

As for your question on the colour of the cover in GWR days, my inclination is for green. (I have absolutely no evidence to support my inclination. Photos of that area in GWR days are just about non-existent, so I had to resort to a preserved specimen for that picture. Also, I tend to trust SVR on liveries.)

 

P.S. Looks like the cover is going to be maroon in this recent LT L95 repaint:

https://b1944490.smushcdn.com/1944490/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2019/03/RM-March-p74agugkdsfgfef.jpg?lossy=2&strip=1&webp=1

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Miss Prism

[bécasse]

I remember the late R.C.Ormiston-Chant ("Robbo"), who had served his time as an apprentice at Swindon Works, saying perhaps forty years ago that, contrary to traditional opinion, the GWR always took the easy route when painting locos. IIRC the precise example that he was quoting was the vertical lining on the cladding of belpaire fireboxes which was not carried over the top of the firebox because it couldn't be seen there from the ground, but by the same principle the covers would have been painted the same colour as the surrounding bodywork, painting them black on a green loco would have been extra unnecessary work.

Once exchangeable covers existed in both colours there would always be the opportunity for the wrong colour cover to be fitted in extremis but it can only have happened rarely, if at all.

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, bécasse said:

I remember the late R.C.Ormiston-Chant ("Robbo"), who had served his time as an apprentice at Swindon Works, saying perhaps forty years ago that, contrary to traditional opinion, the GWR always took the easy route when painting locos. IIRC the precise example that he was quoting was the vertical lining on the cladding of belpaire fireboxes which was not carried over the top of the firebox because it couldn't be seen there from the ground, but by the same principle the covers would have been painted the same colour as the surrounding bodywork, painting them black on a green loco would have been extra unnecessary work.

Once exchangeable covers existed in both colours there would always be the opportunity for the wrong colour cover to be fitted in extremis but it can only have happened rarely, if at all.

 

Lining was discontinued on fireboxes after a painter fell off. Well documented and came from Churchward himself.

 

 

Jason

[4069]

21 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

That is 5764 in green.

 

 

Are you sure? There is a BR early crest visible on the tank side

[Miss Prism]

I think that may be a reflection on the tank side. But, if it is a BR crest, then what pannier could it be with a Churchward cab, flush-rivetted tanks, a non-standard pipe cover at the cab end, and in black? I'm trying to find more pics of 5764, but can't find anything that will refute or confirm the non-standard pipe cover.