Class 04 Drewry Diesel Queries

[t-b-g]

A little out of my normal comfort zone and my personal library and internet searches have failed to help but I am currently building a kit for the Drewry 04 diesel shunter.

 

I have two questions that I hope the assembled RMWebbers will be able to help me with.

 

The loco will be finished in the early BR black livery, with the early crest. Were the numbers cream or white? I have found a colour photo but it is rather too weathered to tell what the base colour is. Looking at models produced either commercially or by other modellers, I have come across some with white and some with cream, so i am a little confused.

 

Secondly, most locos seem to be vacuum fitted but there are some that have no vacuum pipes. Is there list or any information on which locos were fitted and which were not? Is it down to particular batches of locos or is it more random?

 

The kit is for one of the first 15 locos and photos of them in original condition don't seem very common. I don't trust preserved examples, which may well have changed over 70 odd years.

 

Hopefully there will be those more familiar with this class than I am who can help.

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

Tony Gee

Edited October 30, 2023 by t-b-g
typo

[Bucoops]

I believe the numbers were "straw" coloured.

 

The only photo I have seen of an early one without vac fittings is 11100 and 11101 - 11102 onwards appear to have vac from new although I've not seen all of them in their early days to confirm this. 

[Sitham Yard]

53 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

A little out of my normal comfort zone and my personal library and internet searches have failed to help but I am currently building a kit for the Drewry 04 diesel shunter.

 

I have two questions that I hope the assembled RMWebbers will be able to help me with.

 

The loco will be finished in the early BR black livery, with the early crest. Were the numbers cream or white? I have found a colour photo but it is rather too weathered to tell what the base colour is. Looking at models produced either commercially or by other modellers, I have come across some with white and some with cream, so i am a little confused.

 

Secondly, most locos seem to be vacuum fitted but there are some that have no vacuum pipes. Is there list or any information on which locos were fitted and which were not? Is it down to particular batches of locos or is it more random?

 

The kit is for one of the first 15 locos and photos of them in original condition don't seem very common. I don't trust preserved examples, which may well have changed over 70 odd years.

 

Hopefully there will be those more familiar with this class than I am who can help.

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

Tony Gee

What reference material do you have? I would have thought you need MRJ No.3 and Modern Locomotives Illustrated No. 195 at least. Even amongst the first 15 there were a number of variations.

Andrew

Edited October 30, 2023 by Sitham Yard

[Gilbert]

Emails sent Tony

Chris H

Edited October 30, 2023 by Gilbert

[Cwmtwrch]

 

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

The kit is for one of the first 15 locos and photos of them in original condition don't seem very common

The first 15 covers three different batches, with some variations between batches, not least that the first four all had skirts and 'cowcatchers' as delivered, although one certainly lost them later, and at one time three of the later batches acquired them [not necessarily all at the same time]. Later still one of the last variation, with the recessed footplate above the front steps, got them. Examples that had them but subsequently had them removed show a number of small fixing holes in the side of the footplate, and possibly across the buffer beam.

 

There were variations in the cabs and the radiator grille size as well. As well as variations as built, there were later changes to some of the locos in these batches, so it depends which one you want to build, and in what condition.  I would be a bit cautious about a kit for the first 15 unless it has quite a lot of alternative parts...

 

1 hour ago, Sitham Yard said:

I would have thought you need MRJ No.3 and Modern Locomotives Illustrated No. 195 at least.

Both MRJ 3 [published in 1985] and MLI 195 will be very helpful.

 

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

I believe the numbers were "straw" coloured.

Initially, in the black livery, but later changed to white.

[t-b-g]

Many thanks for all the responses.

 

I do have MRJ No 3. My memory for MRJ articles is usually pretty good but it let me down this time and that one had completely slipped my mind.

 

Having had a read through, it clears up the vacuum pipe query and also confirms that the early black livery used normal steam type numbering.  

 

I have a few books that I have borrowed from diesel minded friends and had a good trawl on the internet and I managed to sort out most variations but I just couldn't find a reference to tell me which locos had vacuum pipes and what colour the lettering was.

 

My model will be 11111, just because it was in the right part of the world at the time and there are not many opportunities to give a model a number like that.

 

I have now found a photo confirming it had vacuum pipes. I think I have the footplate, cab handrails, side door panels, sandboxes, and other details about right. I have given it a whistle and no horn, which turns out to be right according to MRJ.

 

Once again, the membership of RMweb is a wonderful help in such matters and I really appreciate those who have taken the time and trouble to help.

 

I have been looking at Railtec transfers and I quite fancy their "faded" crests.

 

Tony

[Ramrig]

Hi. I am also just finishing off a Bachmann conversation of an early version using 3D parts. The other thing to look at is the exhaust pipe. Some of the early versions were flush with the bonnet, others had a thin tube about the height of the cab. Photos are your friend if you can find them. Mine is to be 11102 just after delivery to the W &U where it quickly gained an exhaust pipe after complaints about smoke in the cab. I put a thread up in September if anything here is of any use. The best picture I have is in a Shunter book, title evades me, I’ll go and find it and report back. Also don’t forget the early version had buffer beam numbers also.

Edit: just to add I am using MLI 195 and The Diesel Shunter book by Colin C Marsden reprinted/updated in 2003. Some good images in there of the early liveries, pity there black and whites.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Ramrig
Update re books

[Bucoops]

The photo I have of 11111 has 3 link coupling and vacuum pipe at the front. It still had its skirts too,

[t-b-g]

The kit I am building is the Connoisseur Models one in 7mm scale. It is a very nice kit indeed and I have hardly had to alter anything to make things fit together, although I chose to upgrade a couple of items, like the brake pull rods. It still needs a few more details adding, like sand boxes, front lamp irons, hooks for the shunter's pole and a few other bits.

 

It does include quite a lot of alternative parts, including some for industrial versions.

I attach a couple of snaps, posed on the Colin Marsden book that has a nice photo of 11111, with no skirts. I my have to drill some holes along the edge of the footplate to represent the fixings for the skirts.

 

[bécasse]

Trying to establish definitive information for a different class I found it impossible to establish whether painted numbers were applied in white or straw during the "black" era although small lettering was definitely white, the livery application instructions seem to be strangely silent on the subject and it is quite possible that some works used white and others straw. However the question is somewhat academic as white quickly turns to straw when rubbed over regularly with an oily cloth as would have happened to the painted numbers if no other part of the paintwork. 

 

Incidentally I started an exercise to catalogue the as-built variations for each individual loco in the whole 04 class, but eventually had to admit defeat, not least because of a relative dearth of early photos of the prototypes. I can say, though, that Monty's article in MRJ 3 barely scratches the surface on the subject of in-class variations.

[t-b-g]

Just now, bécasse said:

Trying to establish definitive information for a different class I found it impossible to establish whether painted numbers were applied in white or straw during the "black" era although small lettering was definitely white, the livery application instructions seem to be strangely silent on the subject and it is quite possible that some works used white and others straw. However the question is somewhat academic as white quickly turns to straw when rubbed over regularly with an oily cloth as would have happened to the painted numbers if no other part of the paintwork. 

 

Incidentally I started an exercise to catalogue the as-built variations for each individual loco in the whole 04 class, but eventually had to admit defeat, not least because of a relative dearth of early photos of the prototypes. I can say, though, that Monty's article in MRJ 3 barely scratches the surface on the subject of in-class variations.

 

It is interesting that you found pretty much the same as I did. The more I looked, the more variations I found. Locos which should have a conical exhaust sometimes have a stovepipe, locos that were built without skirts got them later (like 11111). A few had LNER style buffer beam lining, with a black and white edge. Perhaps they did have post war LNER style numbers too.

 

I do think that the wheels suggested by Connoisseur and supplied by Slaters are not quite right for the early locos. they are the right diameter but they have an even number of spokes, whereas the early locos had wheels with an odd number. So the balance weights are a full 180 degree arc when they shouldn't be. I can live with that as some locos have wheels with an even number of spokes and a full 180 degree balance weight but I think these were the later batches with larger wheels.

 

The diesel is very much a little "quicky" side project for me and although I like to get things right if I can, I am not going to lose any sleep over minor discrepancies. I only bought the kit at Guildex at the beginning of September and I just wanted to see how quickly I can build a 7mm loco if I put my mind to it! 

[Lord Flashheart]

25 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

The kit I am building is the Connoisseur Models one in 7mm scale. It is a very nice kit indeed and I have hardly had to alter anything to make things fit together, although I chose to upgrade a couple of items, like the brake pull rods. It still needs a few more details adding, like sand boxes, front lamp irons, hooks for the shunter's pole and a few other bits.

 

It does include quite a lot of alternative parts, including some for industrial versions.

I attach a couple of snaps, posed on the Colin Marsden book that has a nice photo of 11111, with no skirts. I my have to drill some holes along the edge of the footplate to represent the fixings for the skirts.

 

That's looking very impressive,I got one at the recent NEOG show to be 11103 in black.

 

Rob

[The Johnster]

D95xx with the Canton snowplough...

[Sitham Yard]

9 hours ago, Lord Flashheart said:

That's looking very impressive,I got one at the recent NEOG show to be 11103 in black.

 

Rob

I am minded to do 11103 in green but with original number as pictured in MLI 195. I believe that this had the earlier arrangement of rear windows and handrail, higher than later ones although I need to double check.

Andrew

[Cwmtwrch]

13 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I attach a couple of snaps, posed on the Colin Marsden book that has a nice photo of 11111, with no skirts.

It has another one of 11111 on the next page - D2210 is the same engine. Note the shape of the buffer heads; you can just make it out in the earlier photo as well.

[t-b-g]

45 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

It has another one of 11111 on the next page - D2210 is the same engine. Note the shape of the buffer heads; you can just make it out in the earlier photo as well.

 

Thanks for that. I hadn't twigged it was the same loco. My knowledge of diesels of that period is very sketchy and I hadn't looked up the renumbering scheme. I had looked at the buffers on the side on shot of 11111 but couldn't quite tell which of the two oval types they were. The second shot confirms which they should be.

 

I am still a bit undecided about the buffers in the kit. They are quite nice castings but obviously the shape of the heads needs altering depending on the loco. I have wondered about drilling them out and making new turned heads to allow me to spring them, or perhaps replacing them if some suitable sprung alternatives are available.

 

So I put them on just to see how I feel about them and I quite like them, so I am now tempted to keep them and just alter the shape of the heads to suit the prototype.

 

Watch this space!

 

Thanks,

 

Tony

 

 

[t-b-g]

Well, apart from the couplings and windscreen wipers, which will be added after painting and glazing, I think I have run out of jobs on the 04.

 

I have made up some under footplate "gubbins" from brass rod, angle and wire. They are done from the photo of 11111, so I can't guarantee 100% accuracy but they look OK.

 

I am quite pleased with the way she has turned out.

 

A test run on a friend's O gauge model of Framlingham was carried out on Sunday and she can haul the 15 wagon branch goods with no problems, so I may not add any more weight.

 

Thanks for all the help and information.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[Gilbert]

Here's a photo I grabbed during the Missenden weekend....lovely looking (and running) model...

Chris H

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Gilbert

[t-b-g]

As is often the case, I spotted a couple of details that I had overlooked, namely bending the guard irons and adding some bolts where they meet the frames and also I decided to add the cable/conduit for the electric lights as it shows up as being fairly obvious in photos.

 

She has now had a coat of Halfords "Acid 8" primer on the body (I forgot to prime the cab roof, which is loose to allow the cab fittings to be painted and stuck in, that will be done later).

 

.