Laser Cut buildings - the pros and cons

[Modelrailwayquest]

 

What's your go-to kit for buildings on your model railway layouts? I've used cardboard and plastic in the past - but for the Brief Encounter monochrome model railway I had to do something different and use laser cut 3mm plywood - the first time I've ever worked with it.

I definitely found lots of pros - and just a few minor cons - with laser cut. Here's a review.

 

https://youtu.be/bTKR4-5JzDA?si=YcBfMExkXZcU5_9A

[The Johnster]

I have some very good laser-cut kit buildings, notably a row of terraced cottages from Ancorton and a garage/workshop from 'Fair Price Models' on eBay.  There is a lot of rubbish out there, though, excessively twee and with overpretty roof tiles, sort of toytown aesthetic.  Another pitfall seems to be models that have unfeasibly small doorways and windows set too high up.  Roofs are not the strong point of this method of producing kits, and I make my own slate roofs from strips of cut paper overlaid on each other. 

 

'Fair Price' describe their kits as 'scratch aids', and while they make up into complete buildings most laser-cut kits need work to complete; as with the roofs, you will have to do a bit of modelling to complete them to a decent standard, with ridge tiles, guttering, downpipes, doorknobs &c.  My Ancorton cottages, Lechyd Terrace, have interior lighting so I've given them interior walls and floors, paper curtains, and tissue net curtains; each has different painted doors and window frames and some are a bit more run-down than others; in the 50s, not everyone in such a terrace would necessarily have had mains electricity and the 'poorer' ones have dimmer lighting to suggest gas lighting.

 

Good quality well-researched kits like these are a pleasure to build, not least because, to finish them off properly, a bit of your own creativity and even ingenuity comes into play. 

[SteveyDee68]

I’ll second Fair Price Models (based in Stockport) for their laser cut building kits - an ever expanding range at a keen price!

 

Steve S

[mike morley]

I have learned the hard way that this is one area where price is no guide to quality.  I've seen too many kits that were right at the top end of the price range but were no better than those near the bottom, so I feel it is far safer to buy at exhibitions, where you can see for yourself how good they are or aren't.

 

It is of course possible to use others as your crash-test dummy.

For instance, a friend of mine bought a couple of Scale Model Scenery kits blind, and having seen them I was impressed enough to buy a couple of my own - a decision that turned out to be entirely justified.

The Johnster clearly knows what he's talking about so he would make an excellent crash-test dummy!

 

 

[Modelrailwayquest]

On 02/11/2023 at 00:48, The Johnster said:

I have some very good laser-cut kit buildings, notably a row of terraced cottages from Ancorton and a garage/workshop from 'Fair Price Models' on eBay.  There is a lot of rubbish out there, though, excessively twee and with overpretty roof tiles, sort of toytown aesthetic.  Another pitfall seems to be models that have unfeasibly small doorways and windows set too high up.  Roofs are not the strong point of this method of producing kits, and I make my own slate roofs from strips of cut paper overlaid on each other. 

 

'Fair Price' describe their kits as 'scratch aids', and while they make up into complete buildings most laser-cut kits need work to complete; as with the roofs, you will have to do a bit of modelling to complete them to a decent standard, with ridge tiles, guttering, downpipes, doorknobs &c.  My Ancorton cottages, Lechyd Terrace, have interior lighting so I've given them interior walls and floors, paper curtains, and tissue net curtains; each has different painted doors and window frames and some are a bit more run-down than others; in the 50s, not everyone in such a terrace would necessarily have had mains electricity and the 'poorer' ones have dimmer lighting to suggest gas lighting.

 

Good quality well-researched kits like these are a pleasure to build, not least because, to finish them off properly, a bit of your own creativity and even ingenuity comes into play. 

Ancorton/Fair Price sound great - will check them out. Thanks for the tip. I think the sky's the limit in terms of modifying - I agree - I've used paper curtains in the past and they're a really nice touch!

[Modelrailwayquest]

On 04/11/2023 at 20:28, mike morley said:

I have learned the hard way that this is one area where price is no guide to quality.  I've seen too many kits that were right at the top end of the price range but were no better than those near the bottom, so I feel it is far safer to buy at exhibitions, where you can see for yourself how good they are or aren't.

 

It is of course possible to use others as your crash-test dummy.

For instance, a friend of mine bought a couple of Scale Model Scenery kits blind, and having seen them I was impressed enough to buy a couple of my own - a decision that turned out to be entirely justified.

The Johnster clearly knows what he's talking about so he would make an excellent crash-test dummy!

 

 

I agree - it can be a bit of a lottery unless you've seen them "in the flesh" so to speak!

[The Johnster]

I think that so long as the shell of the structure is the size and shape you want with decently placed window and doorway reveals a decent model can be made, but the laser-cut kit is really little more than the shell, and a degree of modelling input is needed to complete it.  Look closely at the picture in the eBay ad; if it’s of a completed model some ‘interpretation’ is needed.  Look at the quality of window frames and doors, the general proportions, and the joints. 
 

I am suspicious of L/C kit brick, slate, tile, and similar reliefed surfaces; the excellent stonework on the Ancorton terraced cottages is an exception, but I made my own slates for this building.  The Fair Price garage/workshop has been finished with a thick deliberately rough matt paint covering to represent render.  You are going to have to do some work to complete your model, few supply decent guttering and downpipes, and chimney stacks/pots are a common weak area as well.  And of course the quality of the wood makes a difference; some is not much better than thick card. 
 

But reasonably priced good quality kits are out there, they usually fit together well, and square, rigid, and robust self-supporting structures are easily made from them. 

[Jeff Smith]

I was very impressed by this Peco kit.

 

 

[wagoneer]

This is something I'm putting a lot of effort into as a new entry into the 'kit' market - currently I'm working on a terraced row of three, all laser cut and intending to bring this to market in the new year. Mine will definitely be a starting point that will need extra elements to produce a finished model.

From my point of view, prototypically correct buildings are important and the challenge is in designing/creating something that reflects that but is robust and easy to construct for the correct price point.

 

 

[MossdaleNGauge]

My first attempt at a Pop Up Design model, it’s Dornoch Station in N gauge.

 

Dave

[SteveyDee68]

On 09/11/2023 at 17:46, wagoneer said:

From my point of view, prototypically correct buildings are important and the challenge is in designing/creating something that reflects that but is robust and easy to construct for the correct price point.

It is my considered opinion that what makes or breaks model building kits (card, plastic or lasercut) isn’t whether they are based upon a particular prototype building, but whether the designers have kept them proportionally realistic in size. Even small buildings can be quite “large” when scaled down, but compression must be done with an eye on ‘reality’, so to speak. Too many - and I include many RTP resin buildings - appear undersized.

Well designed kits have “integrity” in their overall shape.

 

(All in my opinion, of course!)

 

Steve S

[The Johnster]

But are prototypically correct buildings right for anything but prototypical actual models of actual places layouts at actual periods?  If the layout is of this sort, then there is no problem, you simply contruct it as close to scale as you can manage with prototypically correct buildings, track plan, signals, trees/vegetation and general topography.  

 

But this sort of layout is very much in a minority, especially as a home layout in 4mm scale because very few of us have the space to model even small prototypes accurately; we compromise in order to achieve the closest we can to what we want   This usually means a ficticious location but a specific railway or region, indeed a specific locality, at a specified period.  I would venture to suggest that more than 90% of domestic layouts are of this sort.  You could argue that it would be incorrect to use buildings from another (real) place on your ficticious layout...

 

One is assisted in one's efforts by a degree of standarisation of buildings by the big companies and the use of 'off the peg' signalboxes and such by smaller ones, but only to a certain extent; this sort of standardisation often consisted of standardised components and building designs altered in size and shape to best exploit the site.  Once you get more complex than a GW pagoda shelter, no two are the same although there will be a family resemblance.

 

My layout, Cwmdimbath, is a ficticious South Wales Valleys BLT set in a timeframe of 1948-58 in an actual location that never had a railway, or a mining village, or a colliery as it does on my model.   It takes it's inspiration from Abergwynfi, and to a lesser extent Nantymoel, but nobody would mistake it for a model of either of those places.  The station building is similar to Abergwynfi, but is in fact a cut'n'shut of two Hornby Skaledale NER waiting rooms, repainted and given a canopy.  I very much doubt that it existed in that form even on the NER...  But I can't model Abergwynfi building, because that was at Abergwynfi, three valleys over, and nowhere else looked exactly like Abergwynfi.  Also I'm lazy and this cut'n'shut was an easy and cheap solution! 

 

SteveyD68's point about size is relevant as well.  Many buildings which we would consider to be quite small are actually turn out to be pretty big when you scale them down, and a lot of kit/RTP representations would be unfeasibly small if they were scaled up.  Victorian urban hurches, for example, are huge in reality, back in the day they needed to be able to hold anything up to 600 or so worshippers, usually with large seating areas on gallery levels going up to rafters about 50 or 60 fee,t high, that's a coach, and the tower or spire would be more than that!!  Something like the Metcalfe church is unfeasible, but might be ok in N with smaller doors; Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster's small prototype from the Isle of Wight is much more the thing, but not really what you want in an urban environment. The Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster Dockside Crane, an old favourite, is in fact a model of a small dockyard crane that you would find in a not-very-big graving dock, perhaps in a fishing port, for hoisting equipment aboard vessels under repair; it has a capacity of about 5tons, not near enough capacity, size, or speed for cargo work.  A proper cargo handling dockside crane is about 3x the size, has a much longer jib and can luff with about 15ton of load, and winch out of the hold and up 40 feet over the side of a typical ocean-going merchant vessel that might be 600' long (that's a 10-coach steam-age train to you!) at a speed commeasurate with efficient, profitable, cargo handling, no hanging about!  The warehouses to service these ships are massive.

 

Engine sheds are often represented on layouts in a ridiculously small form as well.  One sees MPD layouts with two-road sheds, about 100' long, but reality for a main line shed is six or eight roads, and 400 feet long at least.  Clever siting and management of sightlines can make a model look much bigger than it is in fact, but can only help so much.

 

My colliery is based around a H0 building, a Walther's Cornerstone 'Diamond Coal' tippler.  It looks huge even at the incorrect scale, but like most of this company's products, is cleverly designed to suit a limited footprint.  It can only load 2 wagons on each road, which translates to only one H0 American bogie gondola or hopper car; I can't believe that real American Appalachian coal mines were that restricted for loading space!  But it's quantum better than the tiny buildings that Hornby and Bachmann serve up as colliery structures; very few collieries of that size survived into the 20th century, and those that did didn't survive very far into it!  Heavy industry is big!!!

 

LIke nearly everything else on the layout, it's a compromise, but my railway room is also the bedroom of the flat and there's a limit; I cannot comfortably manage more than a 9-wagon coal train, when three times that would be more likely on this sort of branch, but I have to live with it to achieve the sort of operation I want.  Operation, and smooth running, are the most important things to my view, but I try and make the backdrop as realistic and correctly detailed as I can manage.  The level of my success in this venture is variable...

 

 

[JSModels]

15 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

It is my considered opinion that what makes or breaks model building kits (card, plastic or lasercut) isn’t whether they are based upon a particular prototype building, but whether the designers have kept them proportionally realistic in size. Even small buildings can be quite “large” when scaled down, but compression must be done with an eye on ‘reality’, so to speak. Too many - and I include many RTP resin buildings - appear undersized.

Well designed kits have “integrity” in their overall shape.

 

(All in my opinion, of course!)

 

Steve S

 

That's how I got started - nobody made 'proper' sized industrial buildings, so I made my own. I try not to compress anything, everything is done true to scale (though they are generally freelance & not based on any particular prototypes) and I hope I have achieved the 'proportional realism' and integrity mentioned.

 

Quite often people look at my 4mm scale kits (particularly the lock kit) and think they're O gauge, and are quite taken aback when I tell them they're OO...

 

And as for price, if you want a basic undecorated shell for cladding in whatever scratchbuilding material takes your fancy, then that is very quick (and therefore cheap) to produce; there are a number of companies producing very good 'scratch aid' kits like these as has been mentioned previously. And they are very good value for money. But if you're after a large building with a lot more detail and full brickwork, that can often take multiple hours to cut - especially when you have 4 or 5 different materials/thicknesses in the kit - and a lot more time invested in designing/drawing it up. That does increase the cost, and whilst my kits cost more, I do believe they also offer good value for money.

 

 

Regards,

 

Jonathan

JSModels 

[Vecchio]

Prototype based buildings are quite large, I built for instance a single family house from the Austrian pre-alpine area (It actually needs to stand on a slope) - 2 times the size of the standard Faller buildings... 

IMGP5379 

 

Or the station - Strobl in Austria (was a narrow gauge line station, unfortunately both the line and the building are gone) 

IMGP5418 

IMGP5411 

 

Or even bridges - fascinating fragile and still stable

IMGP5426 

 

Here you see the bridge and the house on my layout. 

 

IMG20220708102049 

 

I love building them, but I have to say also a good resin building can look perfect (but is a bit heavier) 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Vecchio

[wagoneer]

9 hours ago, JSModels said:

 

That's how I got started - nobody made 'proper' sized industrial buildings, so I made my own. I try not to compress anything, everything is done true to scale (though they are generally freelance & not based on any particular prototypes) and I hope I have achieved the 'proportional realism' and integrity mentioned.

 

Quite often people look at my 4mm scale kits (particularly the lock kit) and think they're O gauge, and are quite taken aback when I tell them they're OO...

 

And as for price, if you want a basic undecorated shell for cladding in whatever scratchbuilding material takes your fancy, then that is very quick (and therefore cheap) to produce; there are a number of companies producing very good 'scratch aid' kits like these as has been mentioned previously. And they are very good value for money. But if you're after a large building with a lot more detail and full brickwork, that can often take multiple hours to cut - especially when you have 4 or 5 different materials/thicknesses in the kit - and a lot more time invested in designing/drawing it up. That does increase the cost, and whilst my kits cost more, I do believe they also offer good value for money.

 

 

Regards,

 

Jonathan

JSModels 

Jonathan,
I agree that buildings in scale look best when the proportions are correct, it troubles me terribly to imagine that compromise has to be made, but then I don't have a layout, or really much room for a one. My interest is in the buildings really so I'm focused on that element. 
What I'm working on currently does have various thicknesses and materials but that's what works best to achieve the right results. Finding what works is real trial and error and a bin load of progress ;)

 

Kelly

[The Johnster]

Just finished the build of a lasercut goods shed from LCUT, who advertise on eBay, and some of the experience may be relevant to this discussion, as I feel the kit demomstrates both the strengths and weaknesses of the format.  It's a happy ending, I've got a nice little goods shed!

 

 

 

I'm not sure of it's prototypical credentials, LCUT Creative describe it as a 'drive through' goods shed, can I have fries and a medium coke with that?  There's nothing overtly GW about it but nothing that would prevent it being found on a GW BLT either; it was chosen to fit a site on the layout.  The fit of the brick corners, the quoins, is spectacular and very pleasing to do, but all is not perfection; the side doors are very thin and flimsy, almost single sheet card, and the lack of a floor or bracing at the bottom means that the railside wall runs in a bit at the bottom as can be seen, which should be easily enough dealt with when the building is fixed into it's final position.  I'd like to have seen less 'cardboardy' wood, especially in a kit which is glued with pva as recommended; pva is water-based and there is a risk of parts getting waterlogged and softening (that said, I had no bother).

 

The rail doors are thin card as well but are folded over as front and back halves, which achieves the requisite thickness, and the halves are connected by tabs which form the hinges.  These fit into rebates in the door frames, a clever bit of design but perhaps a little crude in the detail sense.  I suppose if one were to drill down through the doorframe, or rather up from the bottom, one could insert a rod and have working hinges and opening/closing doors, but you'd need to be incredibly accurate with the drilling and have an abnormallly long bit!  Cruel photography shows that one door is not perfectly hung, but they weren't always anyway, as neglect set in in BR days, and this is fine in my view, gives it character  The kit steps defeated me; you need about six hands and a prehensile tail to attempt them, and I compromised with a set of plastic steps out of the bits'n'bobs/come in handy one day box and used the kit handrails.  These are very flimsy, even if they look chunky, especially the thinner lower rail.

 

The brickwork has yet to prove itself; the relief is not deep, and it remains to be seen if my usual method of painting brickwork cement/mortar (paint the brick colour, let it dry, then apply a wash of cement colour to fill the relief after being wiped off) works in this case.  The slate roof is hopeless, and I will be overlaying my own paper slates.  I'm also worried about the scribed planking detail on the doors, but reckon a thin matt wash to suggest faded paintwork will allow it to show through!!  Interior walls can probably be left in their natural colour.

 

Bargeboards and fascia boards are a bit flimsy, and are glued in position with no locating points or marks, but are easy enough to align with the tops of the walls.  These are the sort of components that you want to get into position as quickly as you can after cutting them out of the fret because they are vulnerable to bending otherwise.  It needs gutters and downpipes, and those ventilating holes might benefit from fans or louvres.  It looks like a draughty old place to work!  The roof pieces needed cutting to size, but as the corrent size lines up nicely with the relief lines in the slates, this is easy.  I think it would be improved by thin strip to emphasise the door bracing planks.

 

The wood is, as I say, quite cardboardy and soft, and this means that a fresh Exacto blade is vital, and I went through two of them in the build.  More when the painting is finished, starting this evening, looking forward to it! 

[Jeff Smith]

Drive-through does not normally relate to the loco (steam).  Really it just refers to the track going through so that wagons could be progressed through the shed for processing.  Steam locos were not usually allowed into goods sheds.

 

My experience with larger O scale US kits is that you often need additional internal bracing and you need to paint both sides to reduce warping.  Most were wooden structures so used stain so that the planking joins could show through.  I usually use PVA.

 

Notched brick corners that don't look good could be covered with thin card stone block corners.

[The Johnster]

The corner bricks will be picked out in blue to represent ‘engineer’s bricks’, and if that is not satisfactory, I’ll cut some paper overlay ‘stone’ quoins.  The arch and ventilator surround bricks will be engineer’s as well. 

[wagoneer]

That's quite a nice building though @The Johnster and it all seems to hang on how well the builder paints and finishes the model.

 

The terraced houses I'm working on have gone through many iterations to get the model in a state that I'd feel happy with in someone else's hands, but I'll bet there's still going to be room for improvements. It'll evolve based on feedback and learning from whatever comes next.

[The Johnster]

 

Still some tidying up to do, but progress has been made.  Gutter and the downpipe at the other end of the building are cocktail sticks, the gutter cut in half lengthways.  A sack truck is needed!

[dasatcopthorne]

Here's my partly finished APR Signal box kit found on eBay in unpainted form.

 

Full storey on the Elbow Lane thread under 'Layouts'.

Showing the application of the mortar effect.

 

Great kit.

 

Dave.

[Vecchio]

On 12/11/2023 at 16:05, The Johnster said:

Just finished the build of a lasercut goods shed from LCUT, who advertise on eBay, and some of the experience may be relevant to this discussion, as I feel the kit demomstrates both the strengths and weaknesses of the format.  It's a happy ending, I've got a nice little goods shed!

Looking at LCUT I was quite happy with their kit (and thanks god I didn't have brick corners). The only problem I noticed was the distance between steps of the stairs going up to the signal box.  I corrected that with the addition of an extra step between those from the kit. Now we have probably more "lazy" steps, the right distance may be more in-between. 

 

But as said earlier, painting is very important, covers up a lot and also gives the material some humidity protection (depending of what paint you are using - I use enamel).

 

Here the signal box for Frimingham, a 7mm layout, the colour scheme came from signal boxes in the area near Cromer. 

 

DSC04955 

 

DSC04952 

 

And as it is so nice - a quick look inside the signal box. The interior is from different Severn Models etched brass kits.

 

DSC04954

 

Happy modelling!

Edited November 15, 2023 by Vecchio
wrong photo... grrrr

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Many of the laser kits I see I don't think look like real buildings with either butt joint corners or very visible corner interlocking.

The brickwork tends to be stretcher bond which is incorrect for the majority of railway buildings, plus there tends to be no depth to walls with doors and windows laser cut on the same plane as the walls.

There are exceptions like Monks Gate Models and Intentio Models who do under stand how real building are constructed and look.

David

[The Johnster]

My choice of kit (or RTP) type is not especially governed by whether it is plastic, etched, lasercut, whatever, but by what I want for that particular site, modified by a) what is available and b) cost.  The LCUT Creative goods shed is ideal for the site and the general backstory; small mining village does not need a good shed the size of the Gaugemaster kit but needs more than a platform & lockup.  They do a smaller version and a larger one, a sensible approach IMHO.

 

I use acrylic paints, partly because I'm lazy and the brush cleaning is easy, but also because I am fortunate enough to have a layout within the heated and ventilated living area of the property and must pay attention to the odours created by my modellng activities.  Acrylics work well on the softwood etched surfaces, despite my initial worries, soaking in to the relief without overwhelming it, but I've had some warping on the thin doors. 

[The Johnster]

1 minute ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

Many of the laser kits I see I don't think look like real buildings with either butt joint corners or very visible corner interlocking.

The brickwork tends to be stretcher bond which is incorrect for the majority of railway buildings, plus there tends to be no depth to walls with doors and windows laser cut on the same plane as the walls.

There are exceptions like Monks Gate Models and Intentio Models who do under stand how real building are constructed and look.

David

 

There is a lot of rubbish out there, David, and one must be picky and choosy.  I'd add Ancorton to your execeptions list, particularly the stone terraced cottages which are an excellent kit with a lot of potential for working up.