Question on which Code track to use?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I'm wondering which Code H0 track to use for running some European models manufactured in the 1980s / 90s?  Is there a recommended or common range used here in the UK when modelling standard gauge lines?

 

I've been a contented user of Peco Code 100 track for OO and HO, but am now wanting to switch to finer scale track.  I've been trying Peco Code 70 HO US outline track this afternoon (details in the USA & Canadian Railroads Forum here).  It's great for my US outline stock, but my wider flanged European rolling stock finds it a bit too fine. 

 

Comparing flanges shows this is no surprise:

 

 

The European wagon in that photo (top) is an older Fleischmann model.  I've had a go at taking a photo of a similarly wheeled Fleischmann carriage to try and show where the flanges touch the spikes holding the rails in place:

 

 

 

 

The close-up photo isn't very clear, but hopefully shows enough.

 

I've now discovered it's not just older stock.  This is a newer Roco Professional Range butterwagon, which also touches the spikes as it crosses them:

 

 

 

 

I accept  I'm trying European models on US outline track, but I don't have any Peco Code 75 finescale track (for example) to try.  Would that be OK?

 

Another option that might make my life easier (though not realistic I'd imagine) would be Peco Code 83 US outline track. 

 

Just after any advice.  I'd prefer to use Peco if possible for availability (and cost) here in the UK.  All thoughts appreciated, though I've never handlaid track and probably don't have the tools, skills or patience for handlaid points.  Thanks, Keith.

 

(My apologies for the poor photos - not very helpful, sorry)

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Ian Morgan]

Have you looked at Tillig track? It is Code 83 and european specific.

 

To be used for:

• NEM or RP 25 wheel sets
• Older rolling stock with higher wheel flanges up to approx. 1,2 mm

https://www.tillig.com/eng/Elite_Gleissysteme.html

 

[rekoboy]

My good friend Günther who has a very extensive H0 layout uses a mixture of Piko A Gleis, Code 100, and Peco's Code 100 turnouts. Although the fineness maybe missing from the track he is assured that all of his collection - Piko from the 1960s to the 2000s, Fleischmann, Roco, Hornby and Athearn - run without any problems.

[Gordonwis]

Peco 'original and best' Streamline code 100 works just fine for European HO stock.  Personally if I were you I wouldn't bother with anything else for the following reasons:

 

1) universal (in more ways than one! Peco use the phrase for the track range but it is also almost universally available in all UK models shops. 

2) remember that Peco streamline is actually HO scale track not OO scale!

3) Code 100 accepts almost  all rolling stock from all eras 

4) Some even fairly recent European models (eg 1990s Lima) have flanges that are too deep for code 75.

 

.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Gordonwis

[DCB]

Track varies in its ability to accommodate flanges due to the form of the rail fixings.    Code 100 /83/ etc is the rail section .    Triang stock from 1961 runs smoothly on Peco code 100 and yet on other makes of tracksuch as some  Hornby and GT Code 100.  flanges hit the rail chairs  Even more recent stock hits the chairs on some of  this inferior track.  Peco is a quality product, of the non Peco stuff I bought, well about 15 yards of the 25 yard pack were never laid  and most of the rest has been ripped up , some of the rail has been re used.   I would suggest purchasing some second hand code 75 and 83 track and testing all your stock before moving away from  code 100.   I have no intention of moving away from it except for Narrow gauge where I use a much heavier rail section (Triang super4)  to represent Ffestiniog track . 

Full size track has the rails canted inwards which also keeps flanges away from rail chairs

Edited November 19, 2023 by DCB

[EmporiaSub]

I had a similar situation to you about a year ago, utilising my US HO layout, in that I obtained a mixture of Roco, Piko and Fleischmann HO scale (albeit DR), and can assure you that they will not run on Peco Code 83 track, or to be more precise, Code 83 points!

Peco Code 100 points are not an issue, but the odd wagon still rides up over on Code 75 points.

I dont know about Tillig Code 83 track though, and I’m not sure how easily obtainable it is either.

 

Brian

[Keith Addenbrooke]

My thanks to @Ian Morgan, @rekoboy, @Gordonwis, @DCB and @EmporiaSub for the responses and guidance: as always prompt, kind and informative (not just for me, but for others too I'm sure).  The consistency across the responses is particularly helpful. 

 

Tillig Code 83 does seem to be available in the UK from some of the major suppliers, so may be worth a try, otherwise sticking with Code 100 is the way to go (as Gordon highlighted, it is really HO track after all, of course).

 

I've therefore used a bit of spare time over lunch today to try the same two pieces of rolling stock on some Peco Code 100 - the photos seem to have come out better in the daylight, and the clearance looks quite visible.

 

Fleischmann HO Carriage:

 

 

Roco Professional Wagon:

 

 

I've also dug out a couple of older photos of my own from a static HO cakebox diorama I made back in 2019:

 

 

 

In both photos, both pieces of track are Code 100 Setrack - the left hand piece having had the sleepers adjusted to replace the sections designed for power clips and / or accessories before ballasting and painting.  It shows the appearance can be improved, though note this was for an unpowered diorama so I didn't need to keep the rail tops or inner faces clean (note: it's not a big gap in the track at the back - it's a mirror).

 

I'm really glad no-one suggested re-wheeling stock for finer track...some jobs will always be beyond me:

 

 

 

Thanks again - at some point soon I plan to write up what I'm thinking about trying next, which will be the next post in my current RMweb blog.  Have a good week, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

On 18/11/2023 at 21:54, Ian Morgan said:

Have you looked at Tillig track? It is Code 83 and european specific.

 

To be used for:

• NEM or RP 25 wheel sets
• Older rolling stock with higher wheel flanges up to approx. 1,2 mm

https://www.tillig.com/eng/Elite_Gleissysteme.html

 

 

On 19/11/2023 at 12:19, EmporiaSub said:

I had a similar situation to you about a year ago, utilising my US HO layout, in that I obtained a mixture of Roco, Piko and Fleischmann HO scale (albeit DR), and can assure you that they will not run on Peco Code 83 track, or to be more precise, Code 83 points!

Peco Code 100 points are not an issue, but the odd wagon still rides up over on Code 75 points.

I dont know about Tillig Code 83 track though, and I’m not sure how easily obtainable it is either.

 

Brian

 

I've been waiting to a suitably sunny day to try and get an end-on photo of a wheel passing through the frog of a Code 100 point.  I'm guessing Tillig Code 83 mentioned by @Ian Morgan may work for rolling stock with deeper flanges as the Elite range has more prototypical 'rail only' frogs, not solid cast metal or moulded plastic.  I think this would fit with @EmporiaSub's comment with a problem on Code 83 points, so wondered what the clearance on my Code 100 points might be.

 

I don't know if anyone knows how much the frog rises (it's not much, but 'not much' can make all the difference with finer rails).  These are the best photos I can get:

 

 

 

 

 

The final photo hasn't come out very well, sorry, but hopefully makes sense (I'm not being deliberately artistic!)

 

While the Tillig range looks tempting, even at the higher price, I also note their turnouts come without over-centre springs to hold the tie bar and the toes of the switch rails in place - suggesting they're designed only for use with turnout motors?

 

Don't know if this helps much, as I don't have any Code 83 or Code 75 for comparison, but at least it gives me an indication of the clearance on Code 100 points to help my thinking.  Keith.

[Bernard Lamb]

Be aware that Tillig track is much more fragile than Peco.

If you want to see what nearer to scale H0 German track looks like, then take a look at Weinert Mein Gleis.

I have some very old stock with deep flanges. It will run on Peco code 75 track but does complain at times on more complex poitwork. I am just starting on a MPD and have plenty of old track to hand of various codes and ages. Everything I have tried on a code 100 double slip runs through it without problems. I you are running latge locomorives I find it looks OK. However for a rural branch I would restrict my stock and use something finer.

Bernard 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Be aware that Tillig track is much more fragile than Peco.

If you want to see what nearer to scale H0 German track looks like, then take a look at Weinert Mein Gleis.

I have some very old stock with deep flanges. It will run on Peco code 75 track but does complain at times on more complex poitwork. I am just starting on a MPD and have plenty of old track to hand of various codes and ages. Everything I have tried on a code 100 double slip runs through it without problems. I you are running latge locomorives I find it looks OK. However for a rural branch I would restrict my stock and use something finer.

Bernard 

 

Thanks Bernard - that's really helpful.  Simple Code 75 track and points may work with my rolling stock.

 

Good point about choice of code to suit choice of prototype (applies to many countries of course but hadn't been flagged up here, so worth mentioning).

 

At the moment I'm just looking to rry some ideas, but my space would be more suited to a branch line (your simple Rode layout is a good example of the kind of concept I'm increasingly thinking about - having tried to squeeze in something bigger without success).

 

I've only seen a few pictures of Weinert Mein Gleis points - they have the Wow! factor for certain.

 

Thanks again, Keith.

[michl080]

On 30/11/2023 at 17:48, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

I've only seen a few pictures of Weinert Mein Gleis points - they have the Wow! factor for certain.

 

 

 

Keith,

there is a huge thread at the German h0-modellbauforum about the Weinert track. Certainly worth watching the pictures and perhaps let google translate some of the discussion.

 

https://www.h0-modellbahnforum.de/t321561f54854-Weinert-Modellbau-mein-Gleis.html

 

Michael

[Ian Morgan]

Out of interest, does anyone make prototypical german track for N gauge? There was a company producing very realistic (and very expensive) point kits a few years ago, but they seem to have disappeared.

 

[rekoboy]

Try these:

https://www.weichen-walter.de/

http://www.juergenhaubrich.de/

Not cheap - but top!

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Just to close off this topic and say a proper thank you for the responses, I’m now holding fire for the time being as it looks increasingly likely we’ll move house in the new year (things have moved forwards since I posed this question last month).  

 

As I already have quite a bit of Peco H0e Code 80 track, I may stay with Peco Code 100 for now after all, as @Gordonwis suggested.  While I still don’t like the width of the Code 100 railhead, when placed side by side the relative heights of the standard gauge and narrow gauge rails don’t look as bad:

 

 

 

 

I’m not planning to change my Narrow Gauge track.  Interestingly, Code 80 has been confirmed by @Hobby as suitable for contemporary European / Austrian Narrow Gauge lines and I do have this Peco SL-404 ‘mainline’ version.

 

Thanks to all, plenty of useful information as always to draw on when the time comes, Keith.