Basic 8 pin decoder required

[EasternO]

I have a number of Bachmann DMUs with 8 pin sockets. I'd like to convert all of these to DCC (not sound) and to standardise one type and brand of decoder.

 

From what I've read so far I will have 4 functions, although I don't know what these functions are. I would assume that two functions would be forward and reverse lighting and perhaps another one being interior lighting?

 

As I'm primarily interested in motor control for smooth acceleration and slow running, can I have a couple recommendations for economically priced decoders please. If anyone is aware of any problems I may encounter converting them I'd be grateful for the heads up.

 

I have been looking on ebay and have found listings for LaisDCC decoders quite cheap at around £12, and Rails Connect for about £20.

 

Thanks in advance

Edited December 5, 2023 by EasternO
added info

[WIMorrison]

Look at the Zimo range -available from lots fo suppliers

[EasternO]

2 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Look at the Zimo range -available from lots fo suppliers

Thanks. I looked but nothing I looked at answered any of my questions. I'll call a DCC specialist in the morning.

[DaveArkley]

5 minutes ago, EasternO said:

Thanks. I looked but nothing I looked at answered any of my questions. I'll call a DCC specialist in the morning.

What questions?

[WIMorrison]

9 minutes ago, EasternO said:

Thanks. I looked but nothing I looked at answered any of my questions. I'll call a DCC specialist in the morning.

 

Not sure what you have looked at, Zimo make some of the best decoders out there - especially for what you say you want, and so much better than the ones you have added to your post since I originally commented, neither of which I would put in any of my models.

[Nigelcliffe]

2 hours ago, EasternO said:

...........

 

As I'm primarily interested in motor control for smooth acceleration and slow running, can I have a couple recommendations for economically priced decoders please. If anyone is aware of any problems I may encounter converting them I'd be grateful for the heads up.

 

 

If you want the best control, then it costs more than the prices you indicated.   So, depends how much you'll compromise.  

 

Possibly best:  Zimo, ESU, maybe Lenz.  Above £30, often nearer £40.      A bit cheaper:  Train-o-matic (odd name, but pretty good for the price), perhaps £22-£25.   Then the rest with a long tail of decreasing quality of performance.   

 

Many people seem happy with the cheaper (and poorer performing) decoders, so they do work.   But equally, I've known people chuck out those poor performers once they've experienced better (pay twice....  then get decent performance ?   That doesn't seem sensible to me! ).  

 

 

An 8-pin decoder plug supports three functions (lights), plus motor control,  any "fourth function" will be a wire to connect.   

 

 

 

- Nigel     

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I can vouch for the Lenz Standard or Zimo MX600R as suitable in classes 105 and 108 for refined operation. ( I prefer the Lenz for the cost saving, still circa £20, reserving the Zimos for any mechanism that needs some taming; but buy and fit the proven decoders that are available when required (due to present supply limitations)  later reallocate as required. The mechanisms in these DMU's are inherently an easy drive.

 

Can you feel a 'but' coming along? Good looking and sweet running these models may be, but the internal layout to accomodate the decoder appears to have been given to the apprentice; and a decoder per car, what is this, the DCC decoder manufacturer benefit programme?

 

I now through wire modified sets so all wheel pick up is available to just one decoder per 4 car set, located in the single powered car in the set. (When the 105 came out I determined that a single power car would haul 8 Bach BR mk1s on the steepest layout gradient, quite amusing for what was a hideously underpowered unit in reality.)

[EasternO]

1 hour ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

If you want the best control, then it costs more than the prices you indicated.   So, depends how much you'll compromise.  

 

Possibly best:  Zimo, ESU, maybe Lenz.  Above £30, often nearer £40.      A bit cheaper:  Train-o-matic (odd name, but pretty good for the price), perhaps £22-£25.   Then the rest with a long tail of decreasing quality of performance.   

 

Many people seem happy with the cheaper (and poorer performing) decoders, so they do work.   But equally, I've known people chuck out those poor performers once they've experienced better (pay twice....  then get decent performance ?   That doesn't seem sensible to me! ).  

 

 

An 8-pin decoder plug supports three functions (lights), plus motor control,  any "fourth function" will be a wire to connect.   

 

 

 

- Nigel     

 

Fabulous, thank you very much.

 

Is the fourth function a simple on-off type of switch or variable voltage or programmable? I can't think of a use for a 4th function on a DMU yet, but it's good to know.

[EasternO]

29 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I can vouch for the Lenz Standard or Zimo MX600R as suitable in classes 105 and 108 for refined operation. ( I prefer the Lenz for the cost saving, still circa £20, reserving the Zimos for any mechanism that needs some taming; but buy and fit the proven decoders that are available when required (due to present supply limitations)  later reallocate as required. The mechanisms in these DMU's are inherently an easy drive.

 

Can you feel a 'but' coming along? Good looking and sweet running these models may be, but the internal layout to accomodate the decoder appears to have been given to the apprentice; and a decoder per car, what is this, the DCC decoder manufacturer benefit programme?

 

I now through wire modified sets so all wheel pick up is available to just one decoder per 4 car set, located in the single powered car in the set. (When the 105 came out I determined that a single power car would haul 8 Bach BR mk1s on the steepest layout gradient, quite amusing for what was a hideously underpowered unit in reality.)

Equally fabulous. What you've suggested about through wiring is what I was thinking too. The wiring diagram seems to suggest that a second decoder is not absolutely required, just easier. Thanks.

[Suzie]

MX600R is the decoder you need for a NEM652 8-pin socket and it will have all three functions that this socket supports (usually front lights and rear lights on F0, and possibly some interior or cab lighting on F1). £25 last time I bought one.

 

https://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/zimo/8-pin-budget-decoder

[peterm1]

2 hours ago, Suzie said:

MX600R is the decoder you need for a NEM652 8-pin socket and it will have all three functions that this socket supports (usually front lights and rear lights on F0, and possibly some interior or cab lighting on F1). £25 last time I bought one.

 

https://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/zimo/8-pin-budget-decoder

Seconded.

[Nigelcliffe]

9 hours ago, EasternO said:

Is the fourth function a simple on-off type of switch or variable voltage or programmable? I can't think of a use for a 4th function on a DMU yet, but it's good to know.

 

That's a "depends"  (depends on maker, specific decoder, etc.. etc.. ).   

 

As a general rule, a function output on a decoder is "track voltage minus a bit", so around 14volts DC.  That is measured to "decoder positive" (blue wire), which is one of the wires in the 8-pin plug.    The brightness of any item can be adjusted on most decoders by a PWM setting (so its full volts, but on/off rapidly to appear a lower average volts), but the amount of control varies by decoder maker.   

 

 

The best decoders will have far more outputs than four, and can do various things with some of those additional outputs, such as moving a servo motor between two or three positions.     Using those then becomes a matter of imagination and amount of wire/circuitry that you can cram into a vehicle.   

 

 

[97406]

I DCCd my whole fleet of 60 or so items of stock recently and found the LaisDCC decoders to be absolutely fine for the bulk of the fleet. 

[Barry Ten]

Laisdcc decoders are my current choice for inexpensive ones that do the job required. I've been using them in a number of hard-wired conversions of old Bachmann locos and they give great control straight after installation. I've just bought another six for future jobs.

[EasternO]

Thank you all, really good info. I don't know anything much about DCC other than what I've read and managed to understand.

 

I'm not into sound just yet but I may be in the future. For now I'm looking for the refinement of DCC control and incorporating that into JRMI or similar. I've got 4 Bachmann DMUs but I'm looking for a couple more, so at least 6 decoders eventually. I'll probably have a pop at the Zimo MX600R as that seems to be highly recommended.

[Harlequin]

Zimo is the best choice, IMHO too, but just a note that the MX series has been superseded by the MS and MN series of decoders. They are a little more expensive but since you're interested in standardising it might be worth going for them rather than the MX series, which may become harder to buy over time.

 

MN170R: 8-pin, 0.7A, 6 functions

MN300R: 8-pin, 1.0A, 6 functions

MN330R: 8-pin, 1.2A, 10 functions

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Harlequin

[Izzy]

While I would also recommend Zimo if you want decent/superior motor control and a better range of adjustments than other makes, and nice and easy with such as JMRI/Decoder Pro, with particular regard to Bachmann DMU's etc. I would suggest that for lighting in the trailer cars the likes of the cheaper Lais might be all you need ( I'm not sure of their size) and especially as the room in them is more limited than in the motor cars, mostly they need fitting in the toilets area where space is limited. It's also more economical.

 

Bob

[Barry Ten]

The LaisDCC ones are quite small.

[KingEdwardII]

6 hours ago, EasternO said:

. I've got 4 Bachmann DMUs but I'm looking for a couple more,

Some of the later Bachmann DMUs like the 117 come ready through-wired and so only require a single decoder for the whole set.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Hairy Bear Digital]

Not come across a Bachmann Dmu that has switchable interior lights off a separate function. 

Their either permanently on fed from the track or switched via F0 with the markers.

[WIMorrison]

You should be aware that many Bachmann decoders are actually made by Zimo - look on the little box they come in and you will see the Zimo logo 😉

[EasternO]

3 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

Some of the later Bachmann DMUs like the 117 come ready through-wired and so only require a single decoder for the whole set.

 

Yours, Mike.

Thanks. I have a few 105s and a Derby Lightweight. I'm looking for another Lightweight and a couple 101s if anyone knows of any at a decent price.

[KingEdwardII]

2 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

many Bachmann decoders are actually made by Zimo

Yes indeed - I bought a Bachmann 36-570 (Plux 22) for my 117 and the box insert holding the decoder has the Zimo logo printed at the top of a listing of the CV settings. It worked out cheaper to buy the Bachmann than the equivalent Zimo decoder. The 117 is designed to accommodate this non-sound decoder, which keeps things simple.

 

Yours, Mike.