Help requested with Fleischmann H0 Prussian 0-10-0

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I recently acquired a pre-owned Fleischmann H0 Scale Prussian T16.1 0-10-0 as part of an anniversary set originally issued in 1989.  Both the loco and the rest of the set are in excellent condition and came from a very reputable retailer (I treated myself to the set following a small win on the Premium Bonds):

 

 

The loco shows very little sign of use - wheels are clean and it runs very smoothly at all speeds, with clear working lights.

 

The problem is the familiar one of the smell - the burnt electricity / ozone / bad fish smell is worryingly strong.  I've removed the body (easily done by removing two screws) and the block weight (one more screw), and all looks in good shape inside:

 

 

 

 

I've cleaned the commutator (I think it's the commutator) as best I can, including with a cocktail stick in the side of the slots where visible.  The gears looked a bit greasy, especially the middle one, so I've wiped off the excess as best I can without affecting performance.  I use a sewing pin to apply just a single drop of oil to each oiling point when lubricating my locos, which was easily done in this case as the instructions clearly showing where to add oil (and where not to!) were in the box still.  I don't think I've over-lubricated it.

 

I can't see anything amiss, even when running the loco without the body on (no sign of sparks or anything like that).  The last time I had a loco that smelled as bad as this was in the early 1980s: an N-Gauge Pannier tank that ran increasingly noisily and badly as the smell worsened.  At the moment there seems to be no link between the performance (lovely) and the smell (awful).  My concern is that - even though this loco runs flawlessly - the smell is telling me to be careful.  What am I missing?

 

I realise this must be a basic and oft asked question in this Forum, but as a total novice when it comes to locomotive maintenance, I'm happy to be taught the basics.  Any help and advice will therefore be much appreciated. 

 

A couple of short videos in case they help - a faint "flapping" noise can be heard when the loco is in reverse, which is more discernible in person.  The controller (not shown) is a Gaugemaster Combi.  Hope that's OK.  Thanks, Keith.

 

 

 

[melmerby]

Nice loco.

Doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.

Can you measure the current draw when running?.

I would expect maybe 50 - 100 or so mA when running light, if it's a lot more then something could be wrong.

(

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

How warm does the motor get?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

14 hours ago, melmerby said:

Nice loco.

Doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.

Can you measure the current draw when running?.

I would expect maybe 50 - 100 or so mA when running light, if it's a lot more then something could be wrong.

(

 

Thank you - good idea.  I don’t have any electrical equipment (a multi-meter?) but I’m sure I can find someone who does.

 

26 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

How warm does the motor get?

Good point - all I can say is not noticeably at all: when I’ve picked up the loco to reattach the body I didn’t feel any undue warmth.

[cctransuk]

15 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

 

 

The mesh between the brass gear on the motor shaft and the first black idler gear looks to be extremely slack / virtually non-existent.

 

Is the motor location adjustable? If so, the mesh should be closed up so that there is far better interaction between the two gears.

 

Have you tried temporarily detaching the motor and checking that the chassis is free-rolling? The smell could be from an overworked motor, if there is excess friction in the chassis.

 

CJI.

[Bigskybirds]

Hello Keith

 

A couple of issues, could be the brushes are contaminated and need replacement or the magnet on the motor is weak. 

 

Is the motor getting warm?

 

Kevin

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Bigskybirds said:

Hello Keith

 

A couple of issues, could be the brushes are contaminated and need replacement or the magnet on the motor is weak. 

 

Is the motor getting warm?

 

Kevin

 

Agreed, soft, oil-soaked brushes are often the cause of burning smells.

 

CJI.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

As above, good plan to at least order a spare brush set, then if there is no further improvement install and see if that helps. 

 

But first, simply run it a whole lot more. It's possible it has never done much running and you are slow cooking the insulating varnish on the copper wire in the armature windings.  'Interesting' smells from new motors are not unusual, and if they are performing well and never heat significantly, then it goes with time, which may require quite a few  hours running.

[melmerby]

12 minutes ago, Bigskybirds said:

the magnet on the motor is weak. 

If the magnet is weak , the performance will drop off the, current will rise and the motor will get warm

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you all for the help and advice.  The retailer who sold me the set has kindly offered to give the locomotive a service, including replacing the brushes and removing any hardened oil or grease.  Hopefully that will get to the bottom of the problem.  Thanks again, Keith.  

[Bigskybirds]

It is a shame the retailer did not check and service the model before sale. 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

2 hours ago, Bigskybirds said:

It is a shame the retailer did not check and service the model before sale. 

Hi there.  On many occasions that’d be a very fair point, but in this case it’s a retailer I regularly do business with, and I know it was tested: trouble is the smell has been getting worse as I’ve run it more, hence their offer to take a further look at it even though I didn’t immediately return it when I got it and first ran it, so no complaints from me.

 

On one occasion in the past the same retailer ran an older loco I was interested in while I listened on the phone, so we could discuss how well it ran before I bought it.  I’ll update the thread to complete the story when the loco returns, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Further to comments above, the loco has now safely returned in time for the Santa Specials.

 

The considered view of the retailer is that the smell will fade and is nothing to worry about - it’s simply the consequence of thirty years in storage before being run-in for the first time.  Certainly, performance seems unaffected across a range of speeds.  I don’t currently have the facility for a long run-in, just a shuttle track back and forth, but giving it a quick re-run following its return home, I don’t think the smell is as bad as it was before sending it off for checking.

 

I mentioned in a German modelling thread last year that I’d always dreamed of owning a Fleischmann loco when I was a kid (I modelled in N Gauge in those days, so it was a dream well beyond my means!).  Now I can say that dream is being fulfilled.

 

Happy Christmas everyone, and thank you for the help and advice - always welcome and no doubt of future value too, Keith.

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I’d always dreamed of owning a Fleischmann loco when I was a kid

Now you have this HO Fleischmann, you can seek out a 1970 Hornby Silver Seal 47 or 9F, and you will see where the motor design in these came from, with all wheels driven...