Buying a layout that isn't for sale

[crazydrum95]

Bit of a random one, hope the mods will approve the post. 

 

I used to run trains on an old layout, purchased by my then FiL from a model club. It was a fairly simple layout to look at, but very effective.

The layout currently does not run, and is 'living' in his shed. Unfortunately the relationship broke down, and I am in no position to proposition or even speak to him.

 

Has anyone ever tried to purchase a layout like this? It isn't for sale, and I doubt he would sell it to me even if it was. 

[Barclay]

You can only ask him, and if he says "B*&$£r Off" then start your own in a similar style. Plenty of advice on here to help.

[C126]

Do not waste your life wondering about this 'original' and how you can (not) get your hands on it.  Try and put it behind you.  Make your own, based on the best bits you remember of his.  Then you will have something that is wholly yours, and you can say to yourself with pride, "I made that!"

 

[crazydrum95]

I appreciate the thoughts. I have made headway towards my own and I am trying to plan forward with one this year. I have started to make plans, but as quite a novice, I am struggling to design something!

Thanks for the thoughts, as you both say, I think I will forget about it and just use it as some inspiration.

[C126]

Sorry, me again.  I am genuinely interested in what you liked about the layout, 'mouldering and unobtainable'.  Please do consider making a list of its good points, and a drawing of the layout (perhaps in another section of RMWeb), and we can give you suggestions/advice/etc., if you are interested.

 

When your version is finished, and the ex-F.i.L. realises his has rotted beyond redemption in the garage, wasted and unloved, and tries to sting you for four times what it is worth, you can tell him, 'I no longer need it.  Here is my own.'  And he will be the loser.  Nuff said.

 

[njee20]

Surely the issue here is not so much that it’s not for sale, it’s that you do not talk to its owner… this would appear to be a significant stumbling block. Given I presume it’s been some years since you saw the layout I agree with the above, make your own based on the bits you recall liking from ‘the other’ layout. 

[33C]

Wave a white flag, say you will make a donation to charity if you can remove it and  "look how empty your shed is now!"

 

Failing that....

Flaming sh¡t parcel on the door step is always funny!

[GWR57xx]

How long has the layout been languishing in the shed?

If it has been there a while and the shed is not insulated, heated and sealed against damp then I’d think it likely that you’d have to do a lot of repairs to it due to damage from damp and temperature, and possibly wildlife (mice, rats).

I think you’d be much better building your own layout.

[crazydrum95]

I think it's safe to say you are all correct. The layout needed work to the points controller when I left it anyway, it was made pre-1992 and I think I have a case of rose tinted glasses!

 

I actually have a larger space available to me anyway, so I can indeed built something better. Now just to make a track plan that works. 

As someone who has only operated on 1 layout, finding a track plan that isn't just a copy is going to be quite tricky. I've started planning, but it's difficult.

 

Edit; just got home and managed to find the pictures. See attached. I'm trying to get hold of a 1993 copy of continental modeller, as I can't remember for the life of me how the double helix worked in the back! Like you've all said, its not THAT special, and want to make something with some changes. I'll use these as inspiration i suppose!

As you can see, even back then the storage situation wasn't great. It has since moved into a new shed, but as you all say, it probably needs alot of work.

Edited December 18, 2023 by crazydrum95

[The Johnster]

For a track plan, first have a think about what you want the layout to do and how much space you have for it.  Do you want to see express trains hurtling through the countryside, do you like complex shunting, do you want a big station, would you be happier with an industrial or a quirky light railway, &c.  This will ‘inform’ the sort of track plan that will be best suited.  

For example, the layout in the photos would not be suitable for me at all; I need my trains to do more than circulate through scenery, no matter how impressive!    In fact I avoid continuous circuit layouts, not that I’ve got room for them anyway, and prefer the fiddle yard-terminus format, where passenger trains have to run around and freight does all sorts of shenanigans.   Your needs may be very different. 
 

Then apply a dose of reality to what you’ve come up with; how long can the trains be and how sharp are the curves.  With this in mind, repeat process in paragraph 1. Of course cost becomes a factor at this stage. 
 

You are probably ready to start on the baseboards and making up the track plan by now.  At this point, you will find plenty

of advice here, some of it conflicting but all of it good stuff!  My two-pen’north at this stage would be to consider how many people will be operating it; if it’s just you it might be advisable to consider how complex the plan is.  Any exhibition will reveal layouts with wonderful complex trackwork but they’ve only got enough operators to run it as a roundyround, what a waste…

 

Thought before you commit to a plan will repay you many times over, not just in saved money, but in a layout that is more satisfying for you to use and operate.  
 

Good luck and let is know how you get on!

[GWR57xx]

Some track planning software might be useful, such as AnyRail (there’s a free version).

[crazydrum95]

14 minutes ago, GWR57xx said:

Some track planning software might be useful, such as AnyRail (there’s a free version).

I am currently trying my hand at scarm. I think AnyRail has a limit on the amount of track sections you can use in the free version.

[crazydrum95]

22 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

For a track plan, first have a think about what you want the layout to do and how much space you have for it.  Do you want to see express trains hurtling through the countryside, do you like complex shunting, do you want a big station, would you be happier with an industrial or a quirky light railway, &c.  This will ‘inform’ the sort of track plan that will be best suited.  

For example, the layout in the photos would not be suitable for me at all; I need my trains to do more than circulate through scenery, no matter how impressive!    In fact I avoid continuous circuit layouts, not that I’ve got room for them anyway, and prefer the fiddle yard-terminus format, where passenger trains have to run around and freight does all sorts of shenanigans.   Your needs may be very different. 
 

Then apply a dose of reality to what you’ve come up with; how long can the trains be and how sharp are the curves.  With this in mind, repeat process in paragraph 1. Of course cost becomes a factor at this stage. 
 

You are probably ready to start on the baseboards and making up the track plan by now.  At this point, you will find plenty

of advice here, some of it conflicting but all of it good stuff!  My two-pen’north at this stage would be to consider how many people will be operating it; if it’s just you it might be advisable to consider how complex the plan is.  Any exhibition will reveal layouts with wonderful complex trackwork but they’ve only got enough operators to run it as a roundyround, what a waste…

 

Thought before you commit to a plan will repay you many times over, not just in saved money, but in a layout that is more satisfying for you to use and operate.  
 

Good luck and let is know how you get on!

 Thanks for a detailed reply. I have already done some of this, and while I don't doubt it will change and evolve, here's something I started with;

 

Need; to fit my space. Have already got some baseboards, 2100 x 800 & 2400 x 800 (mm), a large fiddle yard for train storage

 

Want; Multiple levels, a bridge/viaduct, tunnels

 

Like; something intermodal or some interaction between road and rail. Some sort of construction scene

 

Don't want; Shunting/sidings, DCC

[Mallard60022]

My only advice is this. Look through the Layouts Thread on this Forum. Don't rush to do anything yet. Then see if you can get to any shows early next year. Donny in February is easy to get to by Rail, unless you are at the very extreme ends/sides of the Country is heavy on Trade but there are always some excellent layouts. 

In the meantime also spend some time looking at pics in Books or on (say) Flicker, that reflect your interest and era.

Finally...don't bother with that Layout in the shed!

All the best and good luck.

Phil

[Colin_McLeod]

Forget the old layout and build a better one. 

[Paul H Vigor]

3 hours ago, crazydrum95 said:

I think it's safe to say you are all correct. The layout needed work to the points controller when I left it anyway, it was made pre-1992 and I think I have a case of rose tinted glasses!

 

I actually have a larger space available to me anyway, so I can indeed built something better. Now just to make a track plan that works. 

As someone who has only operated on 1 layout, finding a track plan that isn't just a copy is going to be quite tricky. I've started planning, but it's difficult.

 

Edit; just got home and managed to find the pictures. See attached. I'm trying to get hold of a 1993 copy of continental modeller, as I can't remember for the life of me how the double helix worked in the back! Like you've all said, its not THAT special, and want to make something with some changes. I'll use these as inspiration i suppose!

As you can see, even back then the storage situation wasn't great. It has since moved into a new shed, but as you all say, it probably needs alot of work.

A Swiss layout? Would you stay Continental? Or try a British-based layout this time?

[crazydrum95]

1 minute ago, Paul H Vigor said:

A Swiss layout? Would you stay Continental? Or try a British-based layout this time?

My plan is go swiss. British does tempt me, but doesn't quite have the mountain look I'm looking for. The mountains also give me a great hiding place for staging

[Paul H Vigor]

43 minutes ago, crazydrum95 said:

My plan is go swiss. British does tempt me, but doesn't quite have the mountain look I'm looking for. The mountains also give me a great hiding place for staging

Did you manage to hang on to locos and rolling stock?

[The Johnster]

A Swiss layout will give you the advantage of being H0, which will use the space better being a smaller scale (unless you want to model it in N, which is perfectly fine for this sort of layout).  The effect you will be after is the mountains dominating and dwarfing the scene, and while the scenario off a viaduct springing off a tunnel mouth would look contrived in any other genre, it happens all the time in Switzerland, which would be the largest country in Europe if somebody ever ironed it out flat...

 

Your FiL's layout seems to have been a basic 2-track main line at the 'base' height and a secondary main line, something like the F-O perhaps, further up the mountain.  I can't see how there could be any connection between them unless there was a spiral.  A layout that replicates that operation should be easy enough to make a track plan for, the skill is going to be in constructing open frame baseboards to support the Alp that will be the major part of the scenery.  Make sure you can get at everything inside tunnels easily; Murphy's Law dictates that that is exactly where most of your derailments or stalls are going to be...

[C126]

Glad to see you have posted a new thread in the 'Swiss Railways' section, with replies already.  There is mention of helix construction (if HO) here which I hope helps:

 

 

There are probably other, more useful, threads if you take the time to search RMWeb.  I remember an article about Helix-construction in the Railway Modeller a while ago.  Good luck with your new venture, and never be afraid to ask for advice.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by C126
Typo.

[009 micro modeller]

16 hours ago, crazydrum95 said:

My plan is go swiss. British does tempt me, but doesn't quite have the mountain look I'm looking for. The mountains also give me a great hiding place for staging

 

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A Swiss layout will give you the advantage of being H0, which will use the space better being a smaller scale (unless you want to model it in N, which is perfectly fine for this sort of layout).  The effect you will be after is the mountains dominating and dwarfing the scene, and while the scenario off a viaduct springing off a tunnel mouth would look contrived in any other genre, it happens all the time in Switzerland, which would be the largest country in Europe if somebody ever ironed it out flat...

 

Your FiL's layout seems to have been a basic 2-track main line at the 'base' height and a secondary main line, something like the F-O perhaps, further up the mountain.  I can't see how there could be any connection between them unless there was a spiral.  A layout that replicates that operation should be easy enough to make a track plan for, the skill is going to be in constructing open frame baseboards to support the Alp that will be the major part of the scenery.  Make sure you can get at everything inside tunnels easily; Murphy's Law dictates that that is exactly where most of your derailments or stalls are going to be...

One interesting idea, if you’re still going to have a two-level layout with no physical connection between the tracks on one level and those on the other, might be to have H0 on one level and H0m on the other.

[C126]

21 hours ago, crazydrum95 said:

I think it's safe to say you are all correct. The layout needed work to the points controller when I left it anyway, it was made pre-1992 and I think I have a case of rose tinted glasses!

 

I actually have a larger space available to me anyway, so I can indeed built something better. Now just to make a track plan that works. 

As someone who has only operated on 1 layout, finding a track plan that isn't just a copy is going to be quite tricky. I've started planning, but it's difficult.

 

Edit; just got home and managed to find the pictures. See attached. I'm trying to get hold of a 1993 copy of continental modeller, as I can't remember for the life of me how the double helix worked in the back! Like you've all said, its not THAT special, and want to make something with some changes. I'll use these as inspiration i suppose!

As you can see, even back then the storage situation wasn't great. It has since moved into a new shed, but as you all say, it probably needs alot of work.

 

I am pleased to see what I think is a Southern Railway concrete lineside hut in photos 1 and 4.  I knew they got everywhere, but...  😃