Hornby 2024 range announcements

[Pteremy]

There is an interesting dichotomy evidenced on RMWeb. Understandable regret at an old order passing, angst at the possible loss of (to my mind) anachronistic things such as a catalogue. And yet joy that there are new entrants responsible for a new 'golden age', high quality and price friendly models of both widely popular prototypes and prototypes that would previously have been the preserve of kit makers or scratch builders. It seems to me that the key issue for us all is how to engage the 'purchasers' of the future - modellers, collectors, or whatever they see themselves as - to secure a continuing, diverse base for the hobby.

[No Decorum]

7 hours ago, RyanN91 said:

I prefer the original live action models of Britt Allcrofts 1984 television adaptation for ITV! (I have the DVD releases) Even the 2000s CGI is an improvement the locomotives rolling stock etc look nothing like the originals unfortunately! I don't know why HIT Entertainment changed this!  It looks more like Thomas and Friends meets Chuggington! The new 2020s television adaptation "Thomas and Friends All Engines Go",  yes please go back to live action models! Also next year is the eightieth anniversary of "The Railway Series" of books (I have the 70th edition boxset of original mini books it's absolutely beautiful!) by Rev W Awdry 80th birthday in 2025. That should be interesting! I was disappointed that Hornby discontinued Thomas and Friends. Thankfully I did get the final run of models from 2015 and 2016 Thomas, (and the 70th matalic edition one) Edward, Henry, Gordon, James, Perry, troublesome trucks, Annie, Clarabel wagons pack 1 and 2 James coaches Gordon's coaches, Old Slow Coach etc.

Absolutely! IMHO it peaked with Series 3 and 4. The narration of Series 1 and 2 was horribly dreary and from 5 onwards, the use of models ceased. Part of the fun of the whole thing was knowing that they were real models.

[sjp23480]

Building on my comments in the Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling thread on the very disappointing Hornby video presentations.

What he said:

How not to launch a product? | Hornby 2024 Range …: https://youtu.be/iTrtXKpc6l0

Edited January 14 by sjp23480
typo

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

7 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

i think you have hit the nail on the head.....i really don't understand the Hornby bashing, they do something no other manufacture does (Bachmann to a much lesser degree). I've said so many times, come on new boys lets see how you get on providing a full model railway product range, from high end models to proper budget stuff, sound, digital command, all the track work, all the scenery (including scatter etc), buildings, you name it they do it. That's a huge under taking, just think of the management needed behind it to out put all that, let alone the design work (even re-livery's require an element of design, sign off etc), and then be expected to delivery new stuff in all that every year, across all budgets, how the hell do you decide what to do for the best. You are bound to drop the ball on some of it.

 

It's allot easier to produce a handful of high end products (your internal project delivery, skill sets etc are all baselined) and be lorded for it. I don't know the new boys make great products but when you can focus your researchers, designers, PM activities on a handful of stuff makes life allot easier.

As for Hattons, forums are full of people who write stuff to suit their agenda at that point of time, short memories and glass houses spring to mind, oh and  hypocrite.

 

Agreed. One last thought. If anyone thinks Hornby's launch was underwhelming, check out LGB's announcements in recent years - a couple of minutes squeezed in at the end of the Märklin video. How the mighty of G scale have fallen. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

7 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

...i really don't understand the Hornby bashing, they do something no other manufacture does (Bachmann to a much lesser degree)...

And the question then,  is whether all of that 'something' which Hornby does in their best interests?

 

For the market segment I fit into (adult, scale protoype oriented modeller) I would say no. They lag well behind their main competitor in this segment, which is Bachmann, which has systematically produced other than express traction, building a range of the vital every day traction, MU's, carriages and wagons. That said what Hornby now overall offer for this segment is very good, and currently clearly outranks every brand except Bachmann.

 

What catches my eye is that no other brand is seriously challenging Hornby at the starter product end of the range. Bachmann did initially but pretty much gave up fairly quickly is my perception. Is it truly essential now?

Edited January 14 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
clarity

[GordonC]

8 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

i think you have hit the nail on the head.....i really don't understand the Hornby bashing, they do something no other manufacture does (Bachmann to a much lesser degree). I've said so many times, come on new boys lets see how you get on providing a full model railway product range, from high end models to proper budget stuff, sound, digital command, all the track work, all the scenery (including scatter etc), buildings, you name it they do it. That's a huge under taking, just think of the management needed behind it to out put all that, let alone the design work (even re-livery's require an element of design, sign off etc), and then be expected to delivery new stuff in all that every year, across all budgets, how the hell do you decide what to do for the best. You are bound to drop the ball on some of it.

 

It's allot easier to produce a handful of high end products (your internal project delivery, skill sets etc are all baselined) and be lorded for it. I don't know the new boys make great products but when you can focus your researchers, designers, PM activities on a handful of stuff makes life allot easier.

As for Hattons, forums are full of people who write stuff to suit their agenda at that point of time, short memories and glass houses spring to mind, oh and  hypocrite.

 

 

A lot of the Hornby criticism is justified - Id really need to think to come up with a Hornby product that hadn't disappointed in some way or other. And it's not that they're cheaper than other manufacturers, they just don't seem to make the same consistent level of effort between tooling, electrics and decoration.

 

You make it sound like them producing so many pieces of track or scenery balances out their errors ... It doesn't

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

And the question then,  is whether all of that 'something' which Hornby does in their best interests?

 

For the market segment I fit into (adult, scale protoype oriented modeller) I would say no. They lag well behind their main competitor in this segment, which is Bachmann, which has systematically produced other than express traction, building a range of the vital every day traction, MU's, carriages and wagons. That said what Hornby now overall offer for this segment is very good, and currently clearly outranks every brand except Bachmann.

 

What catches my eye is that no other brand is seriously challenging Hornby at the starter product end of the range. Bachmann did initially but pretty much gave up fairly quickly is my perception. Is it truly essential now?

But they are at last trying with things like the Std 2-6-0 and, shortly, the Black 5 which looks to be a truly heroic piece of design in order to cater for the numerous variants.  I await a sight of one to see if it lives up to the promise.

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

14 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

And the question then,  is whether all of that 'something' which Hornby does in their best interests?

 

For the market segment I fit into (adult, scale protoype oriented modeller) I would say no. They lag well behind their main competitor in this segment, which is Bachmann, which has systematically produced other than express traction, building a range of the vital every day traction, MU's, carriages and wagons. That said what Hornby now overall offer for this segment is very good, and currently clearly outranks every brand except Bachmann.

 

What catches my eye is that no other brand is seriously challenging Hornby at the starter product end of the range. Bachmann did initially but pretty much gave up fairly quickly is my perception. Is it truly essential now?

Certainly my impression that Hornby are the only game in town for low(er) priced OO stuff like train sets and Railroad. So if Hornby goes bust or decides to focus on the more profitable high end then that likely disappears. 

Similar situation in German H0 I believe - Piko's Hobby range is pretty unique. Piko's owner is a larger than life character who is passionate about there still being an entry level range to keep the hobby accessible. 

[jonnyuk]

13 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

A lot of the Hornby criticism is justified - Id really need to think to come up with a Hornby product that hadn't disappointed in some way or other. And it's not that they're cheaper than other manufacturers, they just don't seem to make the same consistent level of effort between tooling, electrics and decoration.

 

You make it sound like them producing so many pieces of track or scenery balances out their errors ... It doesn't

really, they have produced some really great stuff in the 3 years or so, maybe more.
W1
peckets
turbomotive

P2

2MT
other various shunters
re-tooled 43 (i get some have issues with but its big improvement
hm7000 - it is now maturing into a well rounded range
lots of carriages recently tooled from southern to coronation to mk3's
pre-grouping stuff, generally well received.
TT:120
newer ATP
some of the new scenery stuff like trees are good value (i have a couple)
i'm sure their is allot more i've not mentioned

 some one asked if doing entry stuff is still relevant, many on this forum hark on about getting the younger generation involved, and with this using pocket money or money from grandparents (certainly something high stuff is just too expensive to fund).
Also mentioned, do Hornby need to do this, only Hornby know what generates the revenue, high stuff or budget stuff. All i would say is who will step in and do it if Hornby don't, maybe they feel they have due to historic thinking.

 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

13 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

A lot of the Hornby criticism is justified - Id really need to think to come up with a Hornby product that hadn't disappointed in some way or other. And it's not that they're cheaper than other manufacturers, they just don't seem to make the same consistent level of effort between tooling, electrics and decoration.

 

You make it sound like them producing so many pieces of track or scenery balances out their errors ... It doesn't

Intersting. How do they manage to sell their products and stay in business if they are universally disappointing? 

[GordonC]

12 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

really, they have produced some really great stuff in the 3 years or so, maybe more.
W1
peckets
turbomotive

P2

2MT
other various shunters
re-tooled 43 (i get some have issues with but its big improvement
hm7000 - it is now maturing into a well rounded range
lots of carriages recently tooled from southern to coronation to mk3's
pre-grouping stuff, generally well received.
TT:120
newer ATP
some of the new scenery stuff like trees are good value (i have a couple)
i'm sure their is allot more i've not mentioned

 some one asked if doing entry stuff is still relevant, many on this forum hark on about getting the younger generation involved, and with this using pocket money or money from grandparents (certainly something high stuff is just too expensive to fund).
Also mentioned, do Hornby need to do this, only Hornby know what generates the revenue, high stuff or budget stuff. All i would say is who will step in and do it if Hornby don't, maybe they feel they have due to historic thinking.

 

 

I'm assuming you mean 'newer APT' rather than ATP, but some of us got burned with pre-ordering the 2020 release when it should have been fixed before releasing.

 

The re-tooled HST is ok, but pretty pricey as it stands and I'd expect competition to do better. Mk3s are ok, I dont think they're a definitive model

Edited January 15 by GordonC

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

4 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

really, they have produced some really great stuff in the 3 years or so, maybe more.
W1
peckets
turbomotive

P2

2MT
other various shunters
re-tooled 43 (i get some have issues with but its big improvement
hm7000 - it is now maturing into a well rounded range
lots of carriages recently tooled from southern to coronation to mk3's
pre-grouping stuff, generally well received.
TT:120
newer ATP
some of the new scenery stuff like trees are good value (i have a couple)
i'm sure their is allot more i've not mentioned

 some one asked if doing entry stuff is still relevant, many on this forum hark on about getting the younger generation involved, and with this using pocket money or money from grandparents (certainly something high stuff is just too expensive to fund).
Also mentioned, do Hornby need to do this, only Hornby know what generates the revenue, high stuff or budget stuff. All i would say is who will step in and do it if Hornby don't, maybe they feel they have due to historic thinking.

 

Agreed. 

I'd add Rocket, Lion, Tiger and Locomotion No. 1 and the Era 1 rolling stock range as something no large manufacturer has been bold enough to put front and centre before. Smart because it's trying to grow a new Era 1 market segment rather than scrapping over repeatedly modelled subjects. 

HM7000 is a unique product. There is no competition at that price point for a Bluetooth and DCC sound decoder. 

TT:120 is also smart as a way of growing a new market - UK modellers who fancy something smaller or simply new and different plus continental TT modellers who fancy running some British trains but have always been put off by OO. 

I think there's plenty for the younger generation in Hornby's range. The Red Rover train set (Class 67 DB freight, £120 on sale) has been a great success with the under 10s in my family, especially once fitted with an HM7000 decoder. They relate to it well because they see plenty of modern loco-hauled freight passing them when out and about on the train. The siding and containers in the set are great for intermodal scenarios with a Lego boat. 

 

[jonnyuk]

1 minute ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Agreed. 

I'd add Rocket, Lion, Tiger and Locomotion No. 1 and the Era 1 rolling stock range as something no large manufacturer has been bold enough to put front and centre before. Smart because it's trying to grow a new Era 1 market segment rather than scrapping over repeatedly modelled subjects. 

HM7000 is a unique product. There is no competition at that price point for a Bluetooth and DCC sound decoder. 

TT:120 is also smart as a way of growing a new market - UK modellers who fancy something smaller or simply new and different plus continental TT modellers who fancy running some British trains but have always been put off by OO. 

I think there's plenty for the younger generation in Hornby's range. The Red Rover train set (Class 67 DB freight, £120 on sale) has been a great success with the under 10s in my family, especially once fitted with an HM7000 decoder. They relate to it well because they see plenty of modern loco-hauled freight passing them when out and about on the train. The siding and containers in the set are great for intermodal scenarios with a Lego boat. 

 

and that's the point. You have just rattled off 3 brand new product ranges, all require significant R&D/Resource. Very easy to pluck off high volume (in terms of sales) prototypes that are in the hundreds, liveries galore, spanning decades of mainline use, looking at what your competitors have done with the same product and improve upon it, great business mind and to be applauded for what it is, but please don't put it in the same ball park as what Hornby do.

 

Hornby is out there all on it's own, trying to bridge every gap, for everyone. They do not get enough recognition for what they do. 

 

Hornby got me into the hobby decades ago, then got back into it 10 years ago. Sad thing is with the new boys plugging off the headline prototypes i do spend more money with them now than Hornby.......actually  i take that back, TT:120 and HM7000 i have spent big on, along with a couple of Loco's. Does this show maybe Hornby are going in the right direction? Maybe?

 

[ColinB]

53 minutes ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Intersting. How do they manage to sell their products and stay in business if they are universally disappointing? 

That is easy to answer pop over to the Hornby Forum and you will see why, to some people they can do no wrong. Hornby probably still make the best mechanisms, although Accurascale definitely gives them a run for their money. The big issue with Hornby is quality and the fact they don't seem to think it is an issue. Now I can forgive them on their "trainset locos" but if you read the posts on about the Hornby Dublo A4s that is really serious. Hornby Dublo is supposed to be their prestige models so when you see the issues on this Forum with say the A4 models then there is a problem. Add to that, that these models cost in excess of £300, then the Company has a serious issue. Then you have competitive aspect I recently bought two Accurascale class 37 now compare the value aspect compared to say the Hornby class 60. Both are similar size both have similar detail, probably the class 37 has more detail and includes "stay alive" as standard but is substantially cheaper.

Edited January 15 by ColinB

[jonnyuk]

24 minutes ago, ColinB said:

That is easy to answer pop over to the Hornby Forum and you will see why, to some people they can do no wrong. Hornby probably still make the best mechanisms, although Accurascale definitely gives them a run for their money. The big issue with Hornby is quality and the fact they don't seem to think it is an issue. Now I can forgive them on their "trainset locos" but if you read the posts on about the Hornby Dublo A4s that is really serious. Hornby Dublo is supposed to be their prestige models so when you see the issues on this Forum with say the A4 models then there is a problem. Add to that, that these models cost in excess of £300, then the Company has a serious issue. Then you have competitive aspect I recently bought two Accurascale class 37 now compare the value aspect compared to say the Hornby class 60. Both are similar size both have similar detail, probably the class 37 has more detail and includes "stay alive" as standard but is substantially cheaper.

valid points, have to say my A4 is superb. 
every single AS loco to date has had issues, whether its electronics, sound, motor detail falling off, general running, they are not immune to QC issues so lets not pretend otherwise (is stay live needed on such a big loco with so many pickups?), difference is they are currently the golden child of the industry. anyway getting of topic to Hornby specific here.

[Fair Oak Junction]

5 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

valid points, have to say my A4 is superb. 
every single AS loco to date has had issues, whether its electronics, sound, motor detail falling off, general running, they are not immune to QC issues so lets not pretend otherwise (is stay live needed on such a big loco with so many pickups?), difference is they are currently the golden child of the industry. anyway getting of topic to Hornby specific here.

 

To be fair, if you think Accurascale is immune to criticism you might want to look at the Class 37 and Manor threads 😉

The big difference as well is how a company responds to problems and criticism, something historically Hornby has not been good at.

But under the new regime that looks like it will hopefully improve.

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

34 minutes ago, ColinB said:

That is easy to answer pop over to the Hornby Forum and you will see why, to some people they can do no wrong. Hornby probably still make the best mechanisms, although Accurascale definitely gives them a run for their money. The big issue with Hornby is quality and the fact they don't seem to think it is an issue. Now I can forgive them on their "trainset locos" but if you read the posts on about the Hornby Dublo A4s that is really serious. Hornby Dublo is supposed to be their prestige models so when you see the issues on this Forum with say the A4 models then there is a problem. Add to that, that these models cost in excess of £300, then the Company has a serious issue. Then you have competitive aspect I recently bought two Accurascale class 37 now compare the value aspect compared to say the Hornby class 60. Both are similar size both have similar detail, probably the class 37 has more detail and includes "stay alive" as standard but is substantially cheaper.

I see. That's a very different market segment from the parts of the Hornby range I buy - the Railroad stuff, especially the diesels with DCC sound for £100 retail, to run on temporary layouts on the floor made up of Roco Line preballasted track. So for me super detail is undesirable as it is very likely to break. 

I've been delighted with the low end Hornby diesel sound locos. The mechanisms (single bogie drive with pickups on the other bogie) have worked flawlessly and I find the HM7000's motor auto calibration function (CV149) works well to optimise responsiveness, especially producing the slowest possible reliable speed step 1 crawl. I'm also happy with the quality of the moulded and pad printed detail. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The large disparity of opinion on exhibition here is exactly what I would expect for a business with such a broad product range that is poorly differentiated. Previous marketing manager thought this was no problem when challenged on this, but personally I feel it damages their reputation. Some clear and sustained segmentation of the range would begin to fix this.

 

I only buy what I consider Hornby's good stuff, and it's up there with anything currently available in RTR OO. I was very pleased at the effort put into the B12/3, which is easily the best 4-6-0 currently available; only amazed that they had chosen to offer this instead of the Black 5 which would surely have sold better. And there we go, that's about to be tested when the Black 5 becomes the reigning best RTR OO 4-6-0. And it won't be anywhere near as good as the Bugatti streamlined form W1 and P2, simply 'because'.

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

1 hour ago, jonnyuk said:

and that's the point. You have just rattled off 3 brand new product ranges, all require significant R&D/Resource. Very easy to pluck off high volume (in terms of sales) prototypes that are in the hundreds, liveries galore, spanning decades of mainline use, looking at what your competitors have done with the same product and improve upon it, great business mind and to be applauded for what it is, but please don't put it in the same ball park as what Hornby do.

 

Hornby is out there all on it's own, trying to bridge every gap, for everyone. They do not get enough recognition for what they do. 

 

Hornby got me into the hobby decades ago, then got back into it 10 years ago. Sad thing is with the new boys plugging off the headline prototypes i do spend more money with them now than Hornby.......actually  i take that back, TT:120 and HM7000 i have spent big on, along with a couple of Loco's. Does this show maybe Hornby are going in the right direction? Maybe?

 

Hopefully it's possible for Hornby to be innovative and successful while doing something other than launching super-detailed OO models of 20th century prototypes. 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

10 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The large disparity of opinion on exhibition here is exactly what I would expect for a business with such a broad product range that is poorly differentiated. Previous marketing manager thought this was no problem when challenged on this, but personally I feel it damages their reputation. Some clear and sustained segmentation of the range would begin to fix this.

 

I only buy what I consider Hornby's good stuff, and it's up there with anything currently available in RTR OO. I was very pleased at the effort put into the B12/3, which is easily the best 4-6-0 currently available; only amazed that they had chosen to offer this instead of the Black 5 which would surely have sold better. And there we go, that's about to be tested when the Black 5 becomes the reigning best RTR OO 4-6-0. And it won't be anywhere near as good as the Bugatti streamlined form W1 and P2, simply 'because'.

I agree about segmentation. The main problem is the branding - "Railways" and "Railroad" are far too similar names. Piko do this better with the "Hobby" and "Expert" ranges. 

Edited January 15 by NotofthiscenturyTim
Clarification

[ColinB]

43 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

valid points, have to say my A4 is superb. 
every single AS loco to date has had issues, whether its electronics, sound, motor detail falling off, general running, they are not immune to QC issues so lets not pretend otherwise (is stay live needed on such a big loco with so many pickups?), difference is they are currently the golden child of the industry. anyway getting of topic to Hornby specific here.

I have 5 Accurascale locos and bar the Manor no issues. The Manor when I took it apart to fit loco crew a couple of parts fell off, a buffer and something else quite small, easily glued back on. I think the "Stay Alive" is basically belt and braces just in case, it probably doesn't need it. Of my new Hornby locos I think the City of Lichfield is the one I remember most, a HD duchess which when it arrived the valve gear fell apart and the cab separated from the boiler. I sent it back to Bure Valley but because they had sold out, I then waited two months for Hornby to repair it while they quibbled with Bure Valley over the fault. It was £300 loco. The real joke was when it returned the valve gear was fixed and still clicked plus they hadn't done anything about the body to cab issue. In the end I just gave up. The thing is, even with decent sound the AS locos were not much dear than a Hornby of similar size, so I am going to be a lot more forgiving for an AS loco.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 minute ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

I agree about segmentation. The main problem is the branding - "Railways" and "Railroad" are far too similar. Piko do this better with the "Hobby" and "Expert" ranges. 

My suggestion was of an available authentic railway title. Hornby should only grab 'The Premier Line'  for their superior models while it is not taken.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

My suggestion was of an available authentic railway title. Hornby should only grab 'The Premier Line'  for their superior models while it is not taken.

 

Or 'The Best Way' - after, all, it's more high-quality Midland models rather than London & North Western models we're wanting, surely?

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

14 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Or 'The Best Way' - after, all, it's more high-quality Midland models rather than London & North Western models we're wanting, surely?

Being an incorrigible fan of calling a spade a spade, my vote's still with something like "Expert" and "Hobby" as they're instantly understandable to newcomers and experienced modellers alike.

Didn't Hornby have a "Super-Detail" range in the past? They could reuse that for the high end models, assuming they still own the rights. 

[The Meerkat]

59 minutes ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

 

Didn't Hornby have a "Super-Detail" range in the past? They could reuse that for the high end models, assuming they still own the rights. 

 they did i think class 31, hst,50, 56, 60,67,87, 153 i think three were more & that not counting steam,