Impact of Running Brake Test on running times

[Stevebr]

There is some really great information contained above.  I'm still surprised that it is not more regulated. It seems that things like centralised door locking (cdl) can be mandated (correctly) but other topics such as brake testing or tree cutting are a bit difficult.😀

 

 

Found the following in my timetable rules book (North West!)

[Rugd1022]

On 08/01/2024 at 20:55, big jim said:

A running brake test is of upmost importance, to determine how the train is reacting ‘in real time’ compared to how you would expect it to

 

there are times when you can’t do a running brake test for a while, heading south from crewe with a 2000 ton stone train example you have to wait until Madeley (about 8 miles out) before carrying it out as it’s up hill until there and you’ll only be doing 20-30mph max if that and a brake test will bring you almost to a stop by the time the brakes have fully released to enable you to power up, doing it just before or at the summit means you will be just about at the down hill bit when you take power

 

i had a stone train last year that had a number of isolated wagons due to defects, so much so that I questioned its ability to run before I left the yard as I felt it didn’t have enough brake force, the actual force compared to the required was only 20 brake forces more, i was told it was ok, tops said it was ok, train list accepted etc, I set off and did my running brake test and had a squeaky bum moment as it didn’t seem to want to slow down at all, even at 30mph, really had to throw the brake in way beyond the pressure i normally would to get it to grip, ended up phoning the box and telling them I’d be running 10mph below train speed in areas where the signals were close together or limited sighting as I didn’t want to sight them at 60mph then be unable to stop in time!l at a red 

 

actually quite scary

 

I've had a few like that Jim, 'not pleasant' just about covers it!

 

With this morning's well loaded 6M39 out of Basford Hall I did exactly as you describe in your first paragraph - it was a long slog up to Madeley at an average 30mph, then a quick burst of speed as I went over the top before doing the running brake test. It was freezing this morning but all was well.

[roythebus1]

Remember the famous case on the Waterloo & City line back in the late 60s or early 70s when they used to run a single motor coach during the day...driver Bill Stone gets into the cab in the sidings, brake for the platform at Waterloo, nothing... despite having had a brake continuity test.. it went through Waterloo and down the slope under the river, and stopped short of Bank, and rolled back down the slope and up towards Waterloo..

 

The coach had been in for some work and someone didn't put the linkage back on to the brake gear! After that incident single car working was abandoned.

[Steadfast]

6 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Remember the famous case on the Waterloo & City line back in the late 60s or early 70s when they used to run a single motor coach during the day...driver Bill Stone gets into the cab in the sidings, brake for the platform at Waterloo, nothing... despite having had a brake continuity test.. it went through Waterloo and down the slope under the river, and stopped short of Bank, and rolled back down the slope and up towards Waterloo..

 

The coach had been in for some work and someone didn't put the linkage back on to the brake gear! After that incident single car working was abandoned.

Forgive me for being dim here, assuming the 1940 stock are air brake only from looking at a photo in the cab, how was the brake continuity test done? No one observing the blocks physically applying?

 

I once had to add brake force wagons behind a wagon with defective brakes as when the brake continuity test was conducted, the blocks didn't move to apply. The wagon was urgently needed, so was carded for isolated brakes and sent on the tripper, the extra wagons coming back on the return leg.

 

Jo

[Ken.W]

19 hours ago, Titan said:

Reminds me of my time changing brake blocks on 309's at Clacton.  You never let two units out together that had just had their blocks changed, as it took a little while for the new blocks to bed in. So a freshly changed unit always went out with a part worn so the reduction in brake power on the first couple of applications was not too significant. Wonder if the drivers ever noticed that the brakes could often be a bit less strong until you got past Thorpe-le-Soken? There was mind you an incentive to do it right as often my train home was the one I had just re-blocked!

 

 

It was definately something you had to watch out for taking a loco LE off the depot when you got one that had just been re-blocked

[PhilMortimer]

On 07/01/2024 at 15:31, rodent279 said:

Similar thing happened in the US back in the 50/60s. Brake pipes between a Pennsy GG1 and the train were connected, but one of the cocks got shut en route. Off went the train, the driver didn't notice much until he tried to brake from 80mph for the terminus (Baltimore Union), only had the loco brake to stop. He managed to get speed down to s about 35 mph before it went though the stops and onto the concourse, which then collapsed.

Amazingly, no one was killed.

 

Actually 1953 in Washington. A couple of days before Eisenhower's inaugurations. Loco 4873 I believe - went through the bumper and ended up in the basement - later retrieved in bits and put back together again. It is now preserved at the B&O museum in Baltimore, though in rough condition.

[roythebus1]

26 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Forgive me for being dim here, assuming the 1940 stock are air brake only from looking at a photo in the cab, how was the brake continuity test done? No one observing the blocks physically applying?

 

I once had to add brake force wagons behind a wagon with defective brakes as when the brake continuity test was conducted, the blocks didn't move to apply. The wagon was urgently needed, so was carded for isolated brakes and sent on the tripper, the extra wagons coming back on the return leg.

 

Jo

The brake continuity test was done by the guard in the rearmost cab if it was done on this occasion. There was a guard's emergency handle in each cab. It was not possible to observe the brake blocks on the W&C stock as they were so low to the ground. From what I've been told of this event, the continuity test had been done, but nobody checked the fitter's work putting the brake rodding back together.

[Dagworth]

13 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

The brake continuity test was done by the guard in the rearmost cab if it was done on this occasion. There was a guard's emergency handle in each cab. It was not possible to observe the brake blocks on the W&C stock as they were so low to the ground. From what I've been told of this event, the continuity test had been done, but nobody checked the fitter's work putting the brake rodding back together.

Why would you want a brake continuity test on a single vehicle train? There's no inter-vehicle brake pipe connections to not be continuous.

 

Andi

[Steadfast]

19 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

The brake continuity test was done by the guard in the rearmost cab if it was done on this occasion. There was a guard's emergency handle in each cab. It was not possible to observe the brake blocks on the W&C stock as they were so low to the ground. From what I've been told of this event, the continuity test had been done, but nobody checked the fitter's work putting the brake rodding back together.

Righto, gotcha. Thanks for explaining that 

 

Jo

[roythebus1]

36 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Why would you want a brake continuity test on a single vehicle train? There's no inter-vehicle brake pipe connections to not be continuous.

 

Andi

But the previous driver could have left the Driver's Brake Valve Isolating Cock open. On stock fitted with the EP brake the driver would get an audible warning if that was the case.  And it's in the rule book.