Middle sized city station plan - 13ft by 8ft

[Danfilm007]

Hi all,

 

Got stuck down a rabbit hole of layout planning and I came up with a Manchester Oxford Road style track plan for 13ft by 8ft in 00 Gauge (so it could fit one of those big garden office things). What do you all think? I have tried to add a bit of operational interest with the turnbacks on the curves so you can accurately have reversing trains in the platforms. I did want to make the scenic element more curvy instead of so boxy, so any ideas? Equally if I could get a 14ft one going it would mean I could squeeze in 5 car trains like the 180s and maybe through running of a TfW 67 and Mk4 set.

Edited January 9 by Danfilm007

[whart57]

Can you lay things out so that the tracks aren't parallel to the baseboard edge in the scenic section?

 

Also I'm not an expert on track design but which are the up and down platforms? Can a train reach them and leave from them with a minimum of point shifts, and can they do so without a single mistake putting them on the wrong line?

 

[dave75]

Captures the prototype well , and I like the operational interest youve created ie, a service from Piccadilly can 'overtake' a service that on any thorough platform.  Stick some light engine moves and  a freightliner in the mix and it should keep you busy.

[RobinofLoxley]

You ought to start the outer fiddle yard lines with curved turnouts to eliminate the reverse curves and maybe lengthen some of the storage roads. The scenic section is simple and good; I'm sure there must be a way to tilt the station or some of the approach trackwork so that it doesn't always run parallel to the walls.

[Flying Pig]

I wonder if @bmthtrains - David can recover any pictures of Cross Street (thread linked, but the pictures were lost in the Crash)? It was a layout in N heavily inspired by the Oxford Road area.   Crucially, it represented only one end of the station and showed the spacious effect that could be achieved that way.  By modelling the entire station with both throats, you have ended up with very short platforms indeed which is a pity given the decent size you have to use.

[Danfilm007]

Thanks for the kind feedback, all!

 

One idea I had was either to start the station further up on the right to straighten it out maybe? Reduce the wall following. Will draw something up!

 

43 minutes ago, whart57 said:

Can you lay things out so that the tracks aren't parallel to the baseboard edge in the scenic section?

 

Also I'm not an expert on track design but which are the up and down platforms? Can a train reach them and leave from them with a minimum of point shifts, and can they do so without a single mistake putting them on the wrong line?

 

 

IRL the top two platforms are going TOWARDS Piccadilly and the bottom to AWAY/Going to Deansgate. The real station has reversing points on both sides and all 4 platforms are (as far I believe) all signalled bi-directionally. It is a big congestion point on the real railway so having the ability for extra running helps!

[RobinofLoxley]

7 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

I wonder if @bmthtrains - David can recover any pictures of Cross Street (thread linked, but the pictures were lost in the Crash)? It was a layout in N heavily inspired by the Oxford Road area.   Crucially, it represented only one end of the station and showed the spacious effect that could be achieved that way.  By modelling the entire station with both throats, you have ended up with very short platforms indeed which is a pity given the decent size you have to use.

Quite right about the platform lengths. Looking at the plan again I would say there is scope to extend platforms both ends but i dont know what that does to the overall geometry of the station itself

[RobinofLoxley]

There's another thread on Oxford Road in N gauge as well

[Danfilm007]

Thanks, I'll take a look!

 

 

In the meantime, I mocked up a 14ft by 8ft version so it is a bit longer, and straightened it out slightly to make it less "wall-y" - does it fit a bit better in your minds?

[ITG]

In your original drawing, looking at the scale measurements of the room, you could consider slightly wider boards (except maybe the bottom board), which in turn may give more scope to avoid the straight track appearance, and to curve some aspects.

On the new plan, that does look better, but what will you do with the triangular space behind the station? Reach and access would be tricky if you placed any track there, or indeed to make it purely scenic.

Ian

[Danfilm007]

4 minutes ago, ITG said:

In your original drawing, looking at the scale measurements of the room, you could consider slightly wider boards (except maybe the bottom board), which in turn may give more scope to avoid the straight track appearance, and to curve some aspects.

On the new plan, that does look better, but what will you do with the triangular space behind the station? Reach and access would be tricky if you placed any track there, or indeed to make it purely scenic.

Ian

 

Good ideas! I like those. In the second plan, I would effectively make the boards only as wide as needed so it would only be at most 2ft wide. Means you could operate from front or back which might be a bit easier!

[ITG]

1 minute ago, Danfilm007 said:

 

Good ideas! I like those. In the second plan, I would effectively make the boards only as wide as needed so it would only be at most 2ft wide. Means you could operate from front or back which might be a bit easier!

A wider board (a) makes it easier to fit in gradual curves and (b) enhances the scenic perspective of ‘railway in the landscape’. Certainly 2ft enables easy reach.

A central operating area imho gives a better view of trains, as they do go out of your sight, giving a sense of a journey.

How will you use your storage yard? Purely to hold complete trains? Or to actually ‘fiddle’ (ie hand shuffle locos and rolling stock to dissemble /reassemble trains)? The answer may dictate where you operate from to give that close at hand access.

For me, I’d want a greater goods rolling stock interest of some kind - as it stands it looks very passenger orientated.

[bmthtrains - David]

As requested, photos of my old N gauge layout Cross Street, which was based on the Oxford road area in Manchester.

 

David 

 

 

 

 

[Curlew]

If you are reproducing the Oxford Road track plan you are missing a crossover at the east end.

 

Also I would recommend a rethink of the fiddle yard. The up and down sidings aren't connected in any way at the moment, so you may quickly end up with an imbalance of trains if any terminate and reverse in the station.

[Danfilm007]

5 minutes ago, ITG said:

A wider board (a) makes it easier to fit in gradual curves and (b) enhances the scenic perspective of ‘railway in the landscape’. Certainly 2ft enables easy reach.

A central operating area imho gives a better view of trains, as they do go out of your sight, giving a sense of a journey.

How will you use your storage yard? Purely to hold complete trains? Or to actually ‘fiddle’ (ie hand shuffle locos and rolling stock to dissemble /reassemble trains)? The answer may dictate where you operate from to give that close at hand access.

For me, I’d want a greater goods rolling stock interest of some kind - as it stands it looks very passenger orientated.

 

Thanks, I thought so! I'm sure gentle curves could be incorporated, I'm not very good at SCARM and it's my first go at it for a while. Just had some ideas so thought it would be good to do it.

 

For me, a fiddle yard would primarily be for storing stock. As you noticed, I'm generally more interested in passenger train running but you can run quite a lot of freight, lots does go through the Manchester running lines.

 

I've done one final plan for this evening - have experimented with making the bay platform as long as the others. I'm not sure if I like it much (I was thinking to make it long enough to fit a full 323, then I thought about what a loco storage siding, then... haha). 

 

Great photos @bhtm, thanks for that! I remember seeing the layout at the time, it was good.

 

Just now, Curlew said:

If you are reproducing the Oxford Road track plan you are missing a crossover at the east end.

 

Also I would recommend a rethink of the fiddle yard. The up and down sidings aren't connected in any way at the moment, so you may quickly end up with an imbalance of trains if any terminate and reverse in the station.

 

Yeah, I've been trying to play with the crossovers to get it to fit on the east side of the layout but the OO 75 curves and curved points make balancing it quite tricky. West side I'm happy with, east side not so much...

[dave75]

Maybe a hidden return loop under the station linking those dead end sidings in the top right, which would use your dead space and move trains from the up to the down side of the fiddle yard.

[Danfilm007]

13 minutes ago, dave75 said:

Maybe a hidden return loop under the station linking those dead end sidings in the top right, which would use your dead space and move trains from the up to the down side of the fiddle yard.

Interesting idea, thanks! I did manage to squeeze in reverse points on both sides (although the radius isn't ideal on the east side and it is code 100, not 75) but it functions at least!

[TravisM]

2 minutes ago, Danfilm007 said:

Interesting idea, thanks! I did manage to squeeze in reverse points on both sides (although the radius isn't ideal on the east side and it is code 100, not 75) but it functions at least!

 

Really good plan, I like it a lot and wish I had a similar space for my Cumbrian Coast layout.  However, I'd be tempted to put the station siding  on the opposite side if possible to maximise that corner space which has been lost, and give you more room in the operating well.  Even with that space, with 3-4 operators, it's going to start to get a bit cramped.

[simon b]

I'm going to suggest the same and say the bay platform would be better on the outside of the layout, filling up one the corners. Put the whole station on a slight curve too and your operating well gets alot bigger.

[simon b]

If you want to save a bit more space the east side crossovers could be replaced by a single slip and a pair of large points, that gives you a scissors formation on a curve. All depends on what radius curves your happy with.

[DavidB-AU]

2 hours ago, simon b said:

I'm going to suggest the same and say the bay platform would be better on the outside of the layout, filling up one the corners. Put the whole station on a slight curve too and your operating well gets alot bigger.

 

I concur with both points. A slight curve gives the illusion of depth.

 

Another option is to rotate the station so the bay platform on the outside. Quick and dirty edit without adjusting the pointwork. In that position it could even be made the same length as the other platforms.

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Dan,

 

You need to think about the scenery at the same time as the track plan because each will affect the other. On that point, check that the minimum radii in the scenic area are visually acceptable. Also note that wherever the track gets close to the back scene you need to think carefully about the scenic treatment.

 

The design also needs to allow for a method to get in and out of the operating well. If you have a section of baseboard that opens in one form or another then it should have minimal trackwork crossing it and it’s simplest for that section to be non scenic. That in turn means that it’s best located near the fiddle yard. But that all depends on the position of the door into the cabin and it might be quite difficult to arrange.

 

 

Edited January 10 by Harlequin

[Danfilm007]

Thanks all! Really appreciate your advice. I've used the slip point advice so I can do turnbacks on either end of the layout now.

 

I've updated my plan based on your above points, all! The Yellow is the baseboards for scenery, the grey would be a moveable board/flip up for entrance and exit. Think this makes a bit more sense? 

[RobinofLoxley]

Hasn't a lot of dead space now appeared at the bottom?

 

I think people were talking about more drastic curvature of the platforms to enable the station to be compressed into a corner. The question then is, as with moving the bay, is whether its any longer what you were choosing to model.

[Harlequin]

It's not a good idea to use the turning route through a slip in a main running line - the radius through the Peco slips is a nominal 610mm (2ft) and so trains encounter quite a sharp turn.