Comparison between a Bachmann 2-EPB and a Bachmann 2-HAP chassis, plus subtle HAP variations.

[Flood]

I'm interested in making a 2-HAP in all blue livery so my question is are the two chassis' of the Bachmann 2-EPB exactly the same as a Bachmann 2-HAP? If so I can buy a cheap all blue 2-EPB and use the driving brake as it is and just replace the body on the driving trailer.

 

If there are differences could someone please point out what they are, preferably with photos.

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

Edited January 23 by Flood

[Southernman46]

Thinking of doing exactly the same - They're as near as makes no odds - 1951 EP stock underframes - if you're using the Kernow 2-H DT, the yellow 1st class strip needs extending back over the declassified compartment behind the cab and a "1" added on the door

[SRman]

It can be done. The underframe details are slightly different due to the toilets on the HAP, but that's barely noticeable. If you number the HAP in the earlier series, the bogies will be correct (later ones had Commonwealth bogies). The lighting arrangement on the models is exactly the same. Depending on the livery, they may or may not match exactly. I did a blue and grey one and an NSE one using spare bodies from Bachmann, but the NSE blue is the light version on the EPB I used and the later dark version on the HAP body, so I'll have to repaint the blue one or the other. The blue and grey versions match fine, but I haven't tried a green one.

Only one of the blue/grey units in the photo was bought as a 2 HAP, the others are converted as suggested. I didn't even change the seat units as one can barely see inside anyway, thanks to the small windows. I may add walls for the toilet compartments later, but I'm in no hurry to do that.

 

[Hal Nail]

Before they released the HAP, there was discussion about making one from a 2EPB and a 2H. These suggested that they completely retooled them each time so there are differences, such as the gutters not lining up. 

 

Presumably that's not significant between the HAP and the EPB?

Edited January 23 by Hal Nail

[SRman]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

Before they released the HAP, there was discussion about making one from a 2EPB and a 2H. These suggested that they completely retooled them each time so there are differences, such as the gutters not lining up. 

 

Presumably that's not significant between the HAP and the EPB?

 

I haven't noticed any difference in the gutter lines.

[Southernman46]

It'll look enough like a 2-HAP to fool most except the most discerning of SR EMU buff's and they should just appreciate your effort. 👌

Edited January 23 by Southernman46

[Geep7]

The only thing you could add to the underframe are a couple of pipes coming out from the bottom of each toilet..... Mind you, they soon "weathered" to a rather dark dirty colour, so they are hardly noticeable..... 

[Flood]

Thank you to everyone for their replies, I've got three thumpers already so I can work out any underfloor toilet fittings from those.

 

Just an additional query. In 1977 all the 1951 HAPswere at Wimbledon and had been reclassified as SAPs (except one set) , whereas all the Brighton HAPs (6053 to 6067), which I am looking to model, were 1957 (phase 1) build.

 

I thought they might have had the one piece toilet lights and different blind window (with subtley different cab windows) but looking at Blood and Custard these didn't appear until the third and fourth batches respectively. So apart from no lighting conduit on the roof is their any other difference between a 1951 and 1957 (phase 1) build I need to know about?

 

Edit: I've found one more difference, full length running boards on the DTCL for the 1951 batch but none below the toilet area for the 1957 onwards batches.

Edited January 25 by Flood

[Hal Nail]

Some discussion of batch differences in the original 2HAP thread. About 4 or 5 down on page 1

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23 by Hal Nail

[roythebus1]

Somewhere in my collection I've got a lot of close-up detail shots of either  2-car or 4car EPB unit taken at staines sidings back in the 1980s. Not sure what type, I only used to drive them! they were all the same to me, big brass handle for go, little silvery black handle for stop.

[Ian Fisher]

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/images/stories/Downloads/MBSOWEB.pdf a useful resource?

[RFS]

The 2-HAPs have different roof fittings compared to the 2-EPBs. 

 

2-HAP - https://railphotoprints.uk/p386613279/e3c3149ef

 

2-EPB - https://railphotoprints.uk/p116820179/e55db9ff4

 

And if you wanted to build a BR 4-EPB you would need a pair of 2-HAP motor coaches, for example. 

Edited January 23 by RFS

[SRman]

3 hours ago, RFS said:

The 2-HAPs have different roof fittings compared to the 2-EPBs. 

 

2-HAP - https://railphotoprints.uk/p386613279/e3c3149ef

 

2-EPB - https://railphotoprints.uk/p116820179/e55db9ff4

 

And if you wanted to build a BR 4-EPB you would need a pair of 2-HAP motor coaches, for example. 

 

Beware comparing the later batches of HAPs to the 2 EPBs. As mentioned above, the earliest batch had the roof conduits, later ones did not. The Bachmann body shells are complete, including the correct roof details for the unit numbers they represent.

As an aside, I have a nearly completed conversion of 2 x 2 EPBs to a 4 EPB, which does require me to remove almost all of the roof detail from all coaches.

[Flood]

Thanks again for everyone's responses. With all the information I now have I should be able to make a reasonable job of a 1957 (phase 1) HAP from a 2 EPB and Thumper DTCL body.