Double arrows on green 31s

[russ p]

Anyone know which 31s or possibly 30s got double arrows with small yellow panels? 

Not sure if any received the twin double arrows

[DaveF]

Do these help?  Some are identified others are not but you might be able to work them out ... perhaps.  Sorry they are not small yellow panels.

 

 

 

High Dyke Class 31 5557 leaving with empties for quarries, Class 47 in sidings July 73 C1263

 

 

Colsterworth Class 31 up iron ore crossing old A1 April 72 C915

 

 

Burton Lane Level Crossing Class 31 D5518 down empty iron ore Nov 68 J1496

 

 

Little Bytham Class 31 5870 down pass Oct 70 J2419

 

 

Bottesford Class 31 D5621 down iron ore March 70 J2079

 

 

Bottesford Class 31 down mineral April 69 J1643

 

 

Bottesford West Junction Class 31 D5803 up mineral July 69 J1785

 

David

Edited January 31 by DaveF

[Izzy]

Looking on Rail-online I've found D5815 at Wath diesel depot in 1966. D5685 near Audley End. D5677 at Stratford 1967. All SYE & double arrows but most others seem to have FYE. I might have missed a few though.

 

Bob

[keefer]

Looking at Graeme Wareham's (BrushVeteran) excellent Flickr:

Class 30/31 Collection (click)

Those with arrows are mainly GFYE, the only ones he has in GSYP are:

D5513 at West Hampstead, August 1967

D5813 at Tinsley (loco with damage, no date given)

Both photos by Graeme Wareham on Flickr.

Edited January 31 by keefer

[DaveF]

Another 2 of mine.  Again FYE for one of them.

 

 

Chesterfield  Class 31 5690 down coal November 70 C408

 

 

York Class 31 D5802 light engine Note maroon Mk2a coach March 67 J812

 

David

Edited February 1 by DaveF

[Halvarras]

I think D5513 was the only Class 30 like this (that looks like a Mirrlees engine exhaust......?)

 

I have an undated postcard somewhere showing D5610 in GSYP with arrows.

[bécasse]

13 hours ago, DaveF said:

 

Chesterfield  Class 31 5690 down coal November 70 C408

 

 

York Class 31 D5802 light engine Note maroon Mk2a coach March 67 J812

That photo is also useful in confirming that at least some of the maroon-painted MK2a FKs had black dark grey and not maroon ends.

Edited February 1 by bécasse
correction from black to dark grey

[BrushVeteran]

The following numbered Class 30/31 received the small double arrow logo in place of the original BR crest whilst in BR Green SYP. Most if not all of these logos were applied whilst the EE re-engine progamme was being undertaken with many locos with existing superior green 'paintwork merely being 'touched up and varnished.

D5513, D5610, D5638, D5643, D5662, D5665, D5677, D5685, D5802, D5813, D5815, D5825, these are the only ones I have seen photographic evidence of.

Edited February 1 by BrushVeteran
missed out BR Green SYP!

[SRman]

5 hours ago, DaveF said:

Another 2 of mine.  Again FYE.

 

 

Chesterfield  Class 31 5690 down coal November 70 C408

 

 

York Class 31 D5802 light engine Note maroon Mk2a coach March 67 J812

 

David

 

For the record, Mark 2, not 2a, but what great photos, with so much detail to be absorbed. 😊

 

3 hours ago, bécasse said:

That photo is also useful in confirming that at least some of the maroon-painted MK2a FKs had black and not maroon ends.

 

The ends were actually roof grey, not black, although weathering would have made them appear darker.

[Halvarras]

The Western Region received quite a few Gfye Class 31s with double arrows in 1971/2 - 5617/68/90/92, 5803/12/14/18/23/24/26/27/28/42/43 (from memory). Also 5809 with old emblem. 5668, 5818/27 made it into 1974 still in green but only 5827 managed to acquire its TOPS number, 31294..........for two weeks!

 

A couple, including 5623, had the double arrow applied centrally between the stripes instead of close up under the top one. 5557/61 received arrows on all four cabsides and bodyside numbers without D prefixes (as above) - I liked this variation and repainted an Airfix model as 5557 more years ago than I care to remember.......😊!

[Max Legroom]

I've always thought that the 31s in GFYE, double arrows and later style number font looked very smart.

[russ p]

7 hours ago, Halvarras said:

The Western Region received quite a few Gfye Class 31s with double arrows in 1971/2 - 5617/68/90/92, 5803/12/14/18/23/24/26/27/28/42/43 (from memory). Also 5809 with old emblem. 5668, 5818/27 made it into 1974 still in green but only 5827 managed to acquire its TOPS number, 31294..........for two weeks!

 

A couple, including 5623, had the double arrow applied centrally between the stripes instead of close up under the top one. 5557/61 received arrows on all four cabsides and bodyside numbers without D prefixes (as above) - I liked this variation and repainted an Airfix model as 5557 more years ago than I care to remember.......😊!

 

Did 5623 5557 and 61 have these with small panels and later style numbers? 

[russ p]

9 hours ago, SRman said:

 

For the record, Mark 2, not 2a, but what great photos, with so much detail to be absorbed. 😊

 

 

The ends were actually roof grey, not black, although weathering would have made them appear darker.

 

This raises another question relevant to my layout did any of the early kk2 FKs in maroon or blue and grey work on the GE section 

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

Did 5623 5557 and 61 have these with small panels and later style numbers? 

 

No - 5557/61 appeared like this so late that they didn't get the Ds, so post-September 1968 and probably the last green ones to get double arrows. Most of not all of the green double arrow 31s with the later number style seemed to have received Ds, even if painted out later, so Doncaster turned out a lot in a short time although a photo of Class 37 D6888 just outshopped from there in Gfye livery with new numbers (but old emblem) dated 5/2/67 shows they made an early start with both that number style and FYE on green locos (Donny turned out D5649 and Deltic D9002 in blue around October 1966, then didn't bother doing any more for a while!)

 

There was some 'mix n match' on the 31s as some appeared with old logo and new numbers (5551 and 5632 come to mind) and others with new logo and old numbers, but I would imagine the latter were those which originally ran with SYP and old numbers with Ds (which are the ones you're really interested in, of course!), and at some later point they gained full ends and lost the Ds, like so many other locos did after the end of steam.

[russ p]

9 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

No - 5557/61 appeared like this so late that they didn't get the Ds, so post-September 1968 and probably the last green ones to get double arrows. Most of not all of the green double arrow 31s with the later number style seemed to have received Ds, even if painted out later, so Doncaster turned out a lot in a short time although a photo of Class 37 D6888 just outshopped from there in Gfye livery with new numbers (but old emblem) dated 5/2/67 shows they made an early start with both that number style and FYE on green locos (Donny turned out D5649 and Deltic D9002 in blue around October 1966, then didn't bother doing any more for a while!)

 

There was some 'mix n match' on the 31s as some appeared with old logo and new numbers (5551 and 5632 come to mind) and others with new logo and old numbers, but I would imagine the latter were those which originally ran with SYP and old numbers with Ds (which are the ones you're really interested in, of course!), and at some later point they gained full ends and lost the Ds, like so many other locos did after the end of steam.

 

Thanks for that, were 5557/61 headcode or disc locos

[BrushVeteran]

1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

Thanks for that, were 5557/61 headcode or disc locos

Both were headcode box versions.

[Halvarras]

Lovely pics, many thanks for posting. I first clocked 5557 stabled at Leicester from a (diverted) passing train in July 1970 and was very surprised to see it as I had no idea such a variation existed. 

 

I really must get my model of green 31294 finished this year (Airfix body on Hornby Railroad chassis), it has sat around for far too long. 31294 was the first green TOPS mainline diesel I saw, at Reading on 16/2/74........gosh, that's just days away from 50 years ago, and I can still picture it approaching down light engine through platform 4 with no number visible on the nearest corner - strange how some things stick in the mind! But at least I can confirm it wasn't a myth 😉!!

[russ p]

I was hoping to find small yellow panel ones. I'm hoping accurascale are going to do arrows on GFYE it really does look smart

Unfortunately it's not possible to do this livery correctly on the Hornby one as the central band has no relief 

[johnofwessex]

Did any other classes of locos in Green have double arrows?

[Johann Marsbar]

Even the carriage heating one(s) got the double arrow....

 

(Stratford open day 1979)

 

[30851]

7 hours ago, russ p said:

 

This raises another question relevant to my layout did any of the early kk2 FKs in maroon or blue and grey work on the GE section 

 

According to the Michael Harris MK 2 book - appendix C. There were 5 early MK2's assigned to the London - East Anglia services (along with 180 MK1) in mid-1972. He doesn't state that they were FK's but I assume that is what they would be. Don't know when they moved over but, of course, they would be repainted by 1972.

 

Towards the end of the 70's he says a lot more of this stock moved over to the GE lines.

 

Rob

[russ p]

32 minutes ago, 30851 said:

 

According to the Michael Harris MK 2 book - appendix C. There were 5 early MK2's assigned to the London - East Anglia services (along with 180 MK1) in mid-1972. He doesn't state that they were FK's but I assume that is what they would be. Don't know when they moved over but, of course, they would be repainted by 1972.

 

Towards the end of the 70's he says a lot more of this stock moved over to the GE lines.

 

Rob

 

Thanks Rob

Think that's outside my time frame unfortunately I'm doing 68/69

[russ p]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

Did any other classes of locos in Green have double arrows?

 

I've seen pictures 03s, 15s and I think there was a Deltic with them

I'm sure people will know of others

[Jeremy Cumberland]

1 hour ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Even the carriage heating one(s) got the double arrow....

 

(Stratford open day 1979)

 

I think all the carriage heating units retained whatever emblem they had when they were converted, and the class 31s weren't converted till 1979/80, so of course they had double arrows (but Stratford couldn't resist giving them fancy paint schemes).

 

As far as I know, the only carriage heating unit that ended up without any emblem at all was former class 15 ADB968002. This started off in green with very faded lion and wheels. Very late in life (1979 at the earliest) it was repainted in blue, but didn't get a double arrow.

 

  

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

Did any other classes of locos in Green have double arrows?

As far as I am aware, class 15 ADB968000 had green FYE with double arrows from the outset, so this was presumably the livery D8243 had when it was withdrawn.

Edited February 1 by Jeremy Cumberland

[Clive Mortimore]

18 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

Did any other classes of locos in Green have double arrows?

Without getting my books out four class 37s, handful of class 15s, D5908, D9010 and Barclay 0-4-0 departmental no.81 when renumbered into capital stock D2953 (?).

 

There might have been some 08s, I can recall a photo of a 350 shunter with double arrows and it was still in green. The British Railways emblem was on the bonnet doors and the arrows on the cab side, the cab side looked like it had been repainted blue as the loco had a TOPS number.