Double arrows on green 31s

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

Did any other classes of locos in Green have double arrows?

 

Class 01 D2956 (ex-Departmental 81 and the second one to carry this number, albeit briefly in 1967).

Class 03 D2048/57.

Class 08 D3940.

Class 11 12108.

Various Class 15s!

Class 23 D5908 (modelled by Heljan).

Class 24 5069/81/92, 5113 (5092 became 24092, 5069/81 not certain, 5113 no).

Class 25 7564 (very briefly in mid-1973!)

Class 27 5406.

Lots of Class 31s!

Class 37 6849, 6921/32/50/82 (6932/50 became 37232/50).

Class 55 D9010 (modelled by Accurascale).

 

Not a single Class 47 (ignoring 47256's short-lived single-tone green repaint in 1978) - it was definitely an ER thing, mostly Doncaster but I guess Stratford did the Class 15s......?

 

The above is just a memory trawl, there were certainly a few others I've forgotten or never knew about......(I'm sure there was another Class 08.......or was it a '10'?)

[MidlandRed]

I have D5662, 5665 and 5815 recorded as  syp with centre double arrows (from 1967/8 observations) - no photos unfortunately. Happy to be corrected on fye on these - but could they have had FYE added separately later. 
 

Im pretty sure D8234 (Liverpool St pet pilot) had double arrows (amongst other members of the class). 
 

@Halvarras as well as the varnished and re-logoed locos, there were quite a large number of class 30/31s put into blue livery in 1967/8 with the four arrows and inboard numbers (with Ds). Presumably the criteria Doncaster used was the general state of the paintwork? 
 

@russ p Accurascale are doing D5803 in green, FYE, central arrow logos - I sincerely hope so as I have one on pre-order!! However I’m not sure if you actually meant the green/four arrow logos? 

Edited February 3 by MidlandRed

[russ p]

7 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

I have D5662, 5665 and 5815 recorded as  syp with centre double arrows (from 1967/8 observations) - no photos unfortunately. Happy to be corrected on fye on these - but could they have had FYE added separately later. 
 

Im pretty sure D8237 (Liverpool St pet pilot) had double arrows (amongst other members of the class). 
 

@Halvarras as well as the varnished and re-logoed locos, there were quite a large number of class 30/31s put into blue livery in 1967/8 with the four arrows and inboard numbers (with Ds). Presumably the criteria Doncaster used was the general state of the paintwork? 
 

@russ p Accurascale are doing D5803 in green, FYE, central arrow logos - I sincerely hope so as I have one on pre-order!! However I’m not sure if you actually meant the green/four arrow logos? 

 

I've ordered the accurascale 5803 and the blue one with 4 arrows . I might try and get another 5803 and make a 4 arrow one

[russ p]

8 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Class 01 D2956 (ex-Departmental 81 and the second one to carry this number, albeit briefly in 1967).

Class 03 D2048/57.

Class 08 D3940.

Class 11 12108.

Various Class 15s!

Class 23 D5908 (modelled by Heljan).

Class 24 5069/81/92, 5113 (5092 became 24092, 5069/81 not certain, 5113 no).

Class 25 7564 (very briefly in mid-1973!)

Class 27 5406.

Lots of Class 31s!

Class 37 6849, 6921/32/50/82 (6932/50 became 37232/50).

Class 55 D9010 (modelled by Accurascale).

 

Not a single Class 47 (ignoring 47256's short-lived single-tone green repaint in 1978) - it was definitely an ER thing, mostly Doncaster but I guess Stratford did the Class 15s......?

 

The above is just a memory trawl, there were certainly a few others I've forgotten or never knew about......(I'm sure there was another Class 08.......or was it a '10'?)

03 D2051 was green with arrows and yellow buffer beams too

I have a feeling it may have gone from plain green to this.

 

 

[david elr]

Anyone got a photo of 31294 in the little time it was about in TOPS numbers and green?

 

Russ Saxton (RIP) would have loved this!

[BrushVeteran]

Class 31's that received interim overhauls with the re-engine programme and received re-varnished green paintwork/full yellow ends with double arrow centrally placed logo I have recorded as follows:- D5513 (serifed numbers); D5514; D5518; D5520; 5523; D5529; D5557 (logos on cabsides); D5561 (logos on cabsides); D5573; D5592; D5600; 5605; 5610; D5612; D5617; D5618; D5621; D5623; D5624; D5630; D5634; D5637; 5638; 5643; D5647; D5660; D5663; 5665; D5668; 5677; 5685; D5690; D5691; D5692; D5693; 5694; D5698; D5699; D5801, D5803; D5806; D5808; D5810; D5811; D5812; 5813; D5814; D5815; 5816; D5817; D5818; D5819; D5820; D5821; D5822; D5823; D5824; D5826; D5827; D5828; D5829; D5842; D5843. I have photographic evidence of the majority of these.

As I mentioned in a previous thread about Class 31's D5545; D5655-D5670 had 1600hp uprated Mirrlees engines and had an additional roof hatch covering a larger radiator header tank adjacent to the fan grille on A side No.1 end, which these engines carried after the equipment was removed on EE engine replacement. The panelled in additional roof hatch remained. I would also add that several of the D prefixed loco's in this list lost the prefix before blue livery was applied.

At some stage I will compile a similar list from my archives showing Green livery FYE retaining the BR crest, of which there were quite a few.

[MidlandRed]

I know, no photo, it didn’t happen!!
 

However for interest, I have D5665 recorded in green, with centrally applied double arrow logos on the empty stock of 1E04 (Birmingham to Norwich) on 22/7/67 at Perry Barr - no fye noted.

D5662 noted on the same empty stock working, 12/8/67, again no fye noted but green and centrally applied double arrow symbols.

D5849 blue fye on 7M19 Derby 8/1/68

D5833; D5841 blue, fye - Saltley 27/1/68

D5580 Fye, green, old logo, 1E04 train 5/4/68.
D5537 fye, green and old logo on 19/8/67 on the same train. 
D5853 blue, fye, same train, Perry Barr 13/7/68
D5692 fye, green, centrally mounted double arrows on same train - mid July 1968.

D5815 on Saltley - green, centrally applied double arrows (no fye noted), mid July 1968. 

[BrushVeteran]

On 02/02/2024 at 01:13, MidlandRed said:

I have D5662, 5665 and 5815 recorded as  syp with centre double arrows (from 1967/8 observations) - no photos unfortunately. Happy to be corrected on fye on these - but could they have had FYE added separately later. 
 

Im pretty sure D8237 (Liverpool St pet pilot) had double arrows (amongst other members of the class). 
 

@Halvarras as well as the varnished and re-logoed locos, there were quite a large number of class 30/31s put into blue livery in 1967/8 with the four arrows and inboard numbers (with Ds). Presumably the criteria Doncaster used was the general state of the paintwork? 
 

@russ p Accurascale are doing D5803 in green, FYE, central arrow logos - I sincerely hope so as I have one on pre-order!! However I’m not sure if you actually meant the green/four arrow logos? 

D8234 was the Liverpool St. pilot and had received a green repaint FYE and logos with block numbers (as per blue locos) , along with D8213; D8229; D8235; D8236; D8240 and D8243. D8231 received logos but retained serif numbers as did D8242 but this loco also retained SYP. D8243 later became ADB968000 retaining its logo's.

I understand Russell Saxton had a photo of 31294 in green livery. He and I collaborated on quite a few livery subjects and it would be shame if all of his extensive research was 'lost'. I do hope that someone may have his archive somewhere.

Edited February 3 by BrushVeteran
to include image

[MidlandRed]

35 minutes ago, BrushVeteran said:

D8234 was the Liverpool St. pilot and had received a green repaint FYE and logos with block numbers (as per blue locos) , along with D8213; D8229; D8235; D8236; D8240 and D8243. D8231 received logos but retained serif numbers as did D8242 but this loco also retained SYP. D8243 later became ADB968000 retaining its logo's.

I understand Russell Saxton had a photo of 31294 in green livery. He and I collaborated on quite a few livery subjects and it would be shame if all of his extensive research was 'lost'. I do hope that someone may have his archive somewhere.

Yes D8234 was the Liverpool St pilot, brain fade on my part. Kept in immaculate condition as well (I’ve corrected my previous post). 

Edited February 3 by MidlandRed

[Halvarras]

On 02/02/2024 at 01:13, MidlandRed said:

 

@Halvarras as well as the varnished and re-logoed locos, there were quite a large number of class 30/31s put into blue livery in 1967/8 with the four arrows and inboard numbers (with Ds). Presumably the criteria Doncaster used was the general state of the paintwork? 
 

@russ p Accurascale are doing D5803 in green, FYE, central arrow logos - I sincerely hope so as I have one on pre-order!! However I’m not sure if you actually meant the green/four arrow logos? 

 

Yes, a large number received four arrows on blue, with Ds to start with and without after the end of steam in August 1968. A few went on to acquire TOPS numbers in this condition, applied in various ways! The switch to a single arrow per side - no doubt an economy measure - occurred around Spring 1969, affecting Classes 24, 25, 31, 37, 42/43 & 47 - what isn't clear to me, because by the end of the 1960s I'd only seen half a dozen Class 31s and all of bar two of those were during late December 1969! - is, which blue repaints were next after D5649 (10/66) and when? If I had to guess I'd say D5639 and D5659 which were regular Royal Train locos for a while.........but we're wandering a bit off-topic!

 

AIUI Accurascale's D5803 is green FYE with arrows.......but will it have Bristol Bath Road depot stickers?!

 

2 hours ago, BrushVeteran said:

 

I understand Russell Saxton had a photo of 31294 in green livery. He and I collaborated on quite a few livery subjects and it would be shame if all of his extensive research was 'lost'. I do hope that someone may have his archive somewhere.

 

 

Me too - we made contact in the wake of the 'Un-corporate Image' supplement compiled by John Hague for 'BRM and 'Traction' magazines which we both contributed to - over 20 years ago now. He was excited to learn that I still had all of my spotting books with livery notes from the 1970s (and Black Sabbath albums from the same period, but that's another story 😉!) We exchanged photos too, and I still have all those he sent me including that one of 31294 which from memory shows it passing through Bristol Parkway light engine, believed to be on its way to Doncaster 2/3/74 so a last-minute record - trouble is, it's near head-on and quite 'fuzzy' so the number isn't clearly legible, but just about good enough to confirm it starts with a '3'. Unfortunately a few days ago the now rather elderly family laptop succumbed to 'File system error (-2147219196)', apparently the result of a dodgy Microsoft update, which prevents access to images (amongst other things) on older laptops with certain processors running Windows 10 - this seems to be a widespread problem and growing, and Microsoft's silence on the issue is troubling....... hopefully to be resolved one way or another soon. Anyway, I'm surprised nobody photographed 31294 upon arrival at Donny - 5818 was captured there with '31286' chalked on its cabside, photo appeared in 'Modern Railways' magazine, so that laid rumours of another TOPS green 31 to rest (5668 was still green in Jan '74 so 31241 must have been a close call too!)

 

At least Russell managed to get his livery books on 'Green to Blue' and the WR hydraulics published, and I made every effort to purchase those issues of 'Railways Illustrated' which contained his articles on dates to blue for individual classes. His sudden passing was a shock, and one of three railway acquaintances lost during 2021, all younger than me which is somewhat concerning.......

Edited February 3 by Halvarras
Got the name of that supplement slightly wrong!

[MidlandRed]

3 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

AIUI Accurascale's D5803 is green FYE with arrows.......but will it have Bristol Bath Road depot stickers?!

I sincerely hope not as it had lost its Ds when on the WR - it was on the ER for some time (with its Ds) in green, fye, central arrows in the late 60s, which is the era I’m after!! I’m sure you’ll be able to obtain 82A stencilled shed codes from one the specialist transfer guys, and delete the Ds easily enough (not quite so easy to add them - I held off on ordering 5544 for this reason!! No worry, D7599 as new in green is about to arrive (I saw D7598 and D7607 brand new adjacent to the station at Derby so this brings back memories…. and even better, D7666 as built in blue will be, hopefully, not too far behind!!)

 

A shame about Russell and I wasn’t aware other than I’d noticed he’d stopped posting - I have at least one of his excellent books.

 

Re the four arrows on locos, the original reason quoted for this was to get the new ‘image’ known quickly around the network by being emblazoned on both ends of locos (bearing in mind the livery instructions were from 1966, when there was a lot of steam still around). Presumably after steam had been eradicated there was less need and in any case, locos like the AC electrics, Hymeks and Westerns, with their cast numerals or number plates) could never comply without costly work. I can’t believe that they saved much cost by halving the number of transfers per loco - maybe works found it easier and less time consuming. 

Edited February 3 by MidlandRed

[russ p]

I've ordered D5803 not very ER if it has those stickers.  Has anyone renumbered an accurascale loco yet? Paint doesn't look too thick on the 37 so I do wonder I f the tcut method will remove base colour 

[stovepipe]

On 02/02/2024 at 15:13, BrushVeteran said:

Class 31's that received interim overhauls with the re-engine programme and received re-varnished green paintwork/full yellow ends with double arrow centrally placed logo I have recorded as follows:- D5513 (serifed numbers); D5514; D5518; D5520; 5523; D5529; D5557 (logos on cabsides); D5561 (logos on cabsides); D5573; D5592; D5600; 5605; 5610; D5612; D5617; D5618; D5621; D5623; D5624; D5630; D5634; D5637; 5638; 5643; D5647; D5660; D5663; 5665; D5668; 5677; 5685; D5690; D5691; D5692; D5693; 5694; D5698; D5699; D5801, D5803; D5806; D5808; D5810; D5811; D5812; 5813; D5814; D5815; 5816; D5817; D5818; D5819; D5820; D5821; D5822; D5823; D5824; D5826; D5827; D5828; D5829; D5842; D5843. I have photographic evidence of the majority of these.

As I mentioned in a previous thread about Class 31's D5545; D5655-D5670 had 1600hp uprated Mirrlees engines and had an additional roof hatch covering a larger radiator header tank adjacent to the fan grille on A side No.1 end, which these engines carried after the equipment was removed on EE engine replacement. The panelled in additional roof hatch remained. I would also add that several of the D prefixed loco's in this list lost the prefix before blue livery was applied.

At some stage I will compile a similar list from my archives showing Green livery FYE retaining the BR crest, of which there were quite a few.

 

I have noted a few additional 'GFYE Arrows' to your list - D5517,5521,5568,5603,5608,5613,5619,5628,5648,5652,5653,5662,5670,5688,5800,5802,5809. So 79 examples in all.

 

For the GFYE with Crest style I have 121 examples, and for the early BFYE (4 bodyside D numbers) I have 62 examples. Still 14 locos unaccounted for. Not sure why I started on this, but I suspect Russell Saxton's postings might have planted a seed!

[Halvarras]

6 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

I sincerely hope not as it had lost its Ds when on the WR - it was on the ER for some time (with its Ds) in green, fye, central arrows in the late 60s, which is the era I’m after!! I’m sure you’ll be able to obtain 82A stencilled shed codes from one the specialist transfer guys, and delete the Ds easily enough (not quite so easy to add them

 

6 hours ago, russ p said:

I've ordered D5803 not very ER if it has those stickers

 

I agree, if the model has Ds it shouldn't have WR depot stickers, and this would be the best solution for purchasers. Painting out the prefix would be prototypical and easy as there's no need to ensure a perfect paint match, and Railtec can supply the depot stickers, although IIRC these went through a number of rapid changes in the early 1970s - depot name + old code, name only, name + new code, then just new code!

[Enterprisingwestern]

6 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

 

I agree, if the model has Ds it shouldn't have WR depot stickers, and this would be the best solution for purchasers. Painting out the prefix would be prototypical and easy as there's no need to ensure a perfect paint match, and Railtec can supply the depot stickers, although IIRC these went through a number of rapid changes in the early 1970s - depot name + old code, name only, name + new code, then just new code!

 

I think the best solution for modellers is to contact the manufacturers, not necessarily just Accurascale, and confirm exactly the time and date they would like their loco's livery to be in, I'm sure they will love the challenge of researching the correct details to satisfy a myriad of requests, heaven forbid that railway modellers actually do any modelling eh?

 

Mike.

[BrushVeteran]

20 hours ago, stovepipe said:

 

I have noted a few additional 'GFYE Arrows' to your list - D5517,5521,5568,5603,5608,5613,5619,5628,5648,5652,5653,5662,5670,5688,5800,5802,5809. So 79 examples in all.

 

For the GFYE with Crest style I have 121 examples, and for the early BFYE (4 bodyside D numbers) I have 62 examples. Still 14 locos unaccounted for. Not sure why I started on this, but I suspect Russell Saxton's postings might have planted a seed!

As this thread has expanded somewhat I thought I would add to Stovepipe's comment regarding GFYE/BR Crest and Blue FYE cab logo's at both ends variations. These are based on my photographic evidence as originally modified but I would add that the D prefix was in most cases obliterated/painted out at an early stage.

 

BR Green with crest FYE :- D5522; 5523; D5524-5; D5527; D5531-2; D5534; 5536; D5537; D5540; D5544; D5547; D5551-3; D5555-8; 5559; D5560-3; D5565-8; D5571-83; D5585-92; D5594; D5596-8; D5600-3; 5604-5; D5607-8; 5609; D5611-3; 5614; D5615-6; 5617; D5618; 5619; D5620; 5622; D5623-6; 5627; 5629; 5631; D5632-7; 5638; 5640; D5641-2; D5644-5; D5648; D5650-6; D5661; 5664-5; 5667; D5669-72; D5674; D5676; D5678-81; D5683-4; 5685; D5687-9; D5691-5; D5697; 5698; D5800; 5801; 5803; 5805; D5806; 5809; 5811; D5812; D5814-5; 5817; D5820; D5822; D5828-9; D5834-5; 5842; D5856; D5860.

BR Blue with cab double arrow logo's each end :-5500-1; D5502; 5503-5; D5506; 5507-14; D5515; 5516-19*; 5521-2; 5525; 5528; D5529; 5530; D5531; 5532; D5533; 5535-6; D5538; 5539; D5542-5; 5546-7; 5549; D5550; 5552-5; 5558; 5560; 5563; D5564; 5568; 5570; 5572; 5574-6; D5578; 5580; 5582; 5585; 5587; 5593-5; 5597-8; D5599; 5603; 5607; 5610; D5612; 5615; 5621; 5624; D5628; D5630; 5634-5; D5636; D5639; D5641; 5642; 5646; D5649; 5650; 5652; 5654; D5658-9; D5666; D5670; 5671-6; 5675; 5679-80; 5684; 5686-7; D5696; 5697; D5804; 5817; 5825; D5830; 5831; D5832-3; D5836; 5837-8; D5839-41; D5844-5; 5846; D5847; 5848; D5849-50; 5851-2; D5853-7; 5858; D5859-62.  *5519 received a partial repaint at Stratford after sideswipe collision repairs and original style serif numbers were utilised on A side.

Any additions to these would be welcome.

Edited February 4 by BrushVeteran
D5663 and D5823 deleted from blue list.

[Halvarras]

6 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I think the best solution for modellers is to contact the manufacturers, not necessarily just Accurascale, and confirm exactly the time and date they would like their loco's livery to be in, I'm sure they will love the challenge of researching the correct details to satisfy a myriad of requests, heaven forbid that railway modellers actually do any modelling eh?

 

Mike.

 

The point I was trying to make is that, when planning a livery, a little effort into selecting the optimum period for that variation should be considered by the manufacturers, and as @MidlandRed said above, it is much easier to paint D prefixes over than to add them, along with data panel transfers if required. No criticism of Accurascale as I believe they have done this with D5803.

 

As an example of how not to do it, Hornby shot itself in the foot with its first green-liveried super-detailed Class 08 release by giving it a post-steam number, 3256, with data panels to boot. The positioning of the number on the cabside didn't leave enough space to add the D even if one which happened to match could be found. Yes, to make this suitable for the popular 'transition era' some actual modelling was required to fully renumber it and delete the data panels, but those relatively few modellers who model the immediate post-steam years (including me) would have far less trouble painting out the D's and adding data panels. As it was, quite a few 'transition era' layouts appeared in the magazines with a post-steam Class 08 shunting the yard!

Edited February 4 by Halvarras
Spellins!

[stovepipe]

49 minutes ago, BrushVeteran said:

As this thread has expanded somewhat I thought I would add to Stovepipe's comment regarding GFYE/BR Crest and Blue FYE cab logo's at both ends variations. These are based on my photographic evidence as originally modified but I would add that the D prefix was in most cases obliterated/painted out at an early stage.

 

BR Green with crest FYE :- D5522; 5523; D5524-5; D5527; D5531-2; D5534; 5536; D5537; D5540; D5544; D5547; D5551-3; D5555-8; 5559; D5560-3; D5565-8; D5571-83; D5585-92; D5594; D5596-8; D5600-3; 5604-5; D5607-8; 5609; D5611-3; 5614; D5615-6; 5617; D5618; 5619; D5620; 5622; D5623-6; 5627; 5629; 5631; D5632-7; 5638; 5640; D5641-2; D5644-5; D5648; D5650-6; D5661; 5664-5; 5667; D5669-72; D5674; D5676; D5678-81; D5683-4; 5685; D5687-9; D5691-5; D5697; 5698; D5800; 5801; 5803; 5805; D5806; 5809; 5811; D5812; D5814-5; 5817; D5820; D5822; D5828-9; D5834-5; 5842; D5856; D5860.

BR Blue with cab double arrow logo's each end :-5500-1; D5502; 5503-5; D5506; 5507-14; D5515; 5516-19*; 5521-2; 5525; 5528; D5529; 5530; D5531; 5532; D5533; 5535-6; D5538; 5539; D5542-5; 5546-7; 5549; D5550; 5552-5; 5558; 5560; 5563; D5564; 5568; 5570; 5572; 5574-6; D5578; 5580; 5582; 5585; 5587; 5593-5; 5597-8; D5599; 5603; 5607; 5610; D5612; 5615; 5621; 5624; D5628; D5630; 5634-5; D5636; D5639; D5641; 5642; 5646; D5649; 5650; 5652; 5654; D5658-9; D5663; D5666; D5670; 5671-6; 5675; 5679-80; 5684; 5686-7; D5696; 5697; D5804; 5817; D5823; 5825; D5830; 5831; D5832-3; D5836; 5837-8; D5839-41; D5844-5; 5846; D5847; 5848; D5849-50; 5851-2; D5853-7; 5858; D5859-62.  *5519 received a partial repaint at Stratford after sideswipe collision repairs and original style serif numbers were utilised on A side.

Any additions to these would be welcome.

 

Thanks for your list. I can add a few more that had D prefixes in the early blue style. In a few cases this is surmised from the positioning of the numbers, with a space left where the D had been painted out.

 

D5535,D5536,D5549,D5553,D5554,D5556,D5589,D5603,D5622,D5640,D5652,D5653,D5656,D5800,D5837,D5838,D5851,D5852. I have 67 in this livery style now.

 

A couple of queries though, D5823 was green until at least 1973, and I think D5663 also, but alas no picture link for that one.

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

The point I was trying to make is that, when planning a livery, a little effort into selecting the optimum period for that variation should be considered by the manufacturers, and as @MidlandRed said above, it is much easier to paint D prefixes over than to add them, along with data panel transfers if required. No criticism of Accurascale as I believe they have done this with D5803.

 

As an example of how not to do it, Hornby shot itself in the foot with its first green-liveried super-detailed Class 08 release by giving it a post-steam number, 3256, with data panels to boot. The positioning of the number on the cabside didn't leave enough space to add the D even if one which happened to match could be found. Yes, to make this suitable for the popular 'transition era' some actual modelling was required to fully renumber it and delete the data panels, but those relatively few modellers who model the immediate post-steam years (including me) would have far less trouble painting out the D's and adding data panels. As it was, quite a few 'transition era' layouts appeared in the magazines with a post-steam Class 08 shunting the yard!

 

I wasn't criticising you by the way.

 

Mike.

[GERARDTCC]

I did an article on this variation back in 2021, see here https://www.flickr.com/groups/1691087@N24/discuss/72157718635190272/

 

Hope this helps. Gerard

[MidlandRed]

59 minutes ago, GERARDTCC said:

I did an article on this variation back in 2021, see here https://www.flickr.com/groups/1691087@N24/discuss/72157718635190272/

 

Hope this helps. Gerard

Very interesting stuff - so it appears D5801 became green/fye/arrow emblems/new font numerals between 24/1/67 and 6/9/67. That’s some considerable time before it went to the WR (although BR Database doesn’t list it as being allocated there - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of it on WR duties). I’m glad Accurascale have got this in ER condition! 
 

Im also pleased to see my recording of D5662/5 and D5815 in green, syp and arrows back in 1967 is borne out by this info (repainted between Nov 66 and Jan 67). It’s always possible to doubt one’s level of accuracy 45 yrs ago!! 

Edited February 12 by MidlandRed

[Clive Mortimore]

The next question, the ones with double arrows and small yellow panels. Which had the thin green lines between the yellow and duck egg blue stripes and which had the yellow edges touching the duck egg blue stripes?

 

 

 

I will let myself out........

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

Very interesting stuff - so it appears D5801 became green/fye/arrow emblems/new font numerals between 24/1/67 and 6/9/67. That’s some considerable time before it went to the WR (although BR Database doesn’t list it as being allocated there - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of it on WR duties). I’m glad Accurascale have got this in ER condition! 
 

Im also pleased to see my recording of D5662/5 and D5815 in green, syp and arrows back in 1967 is borne out by this info (repainted between Nov 66 and Jan 67). It’s always possible to doubt one’s level of accuracy 45 yrs ago!! 

 

5801 was never a WR loco, which is why the BR Database doesn't list it as such. I saw a number of ER 31s on WR metals, including 5603 (in 4-logo blue) paired with Bath Road's green 5828 approaching Swindon from the west in 1973 - 5603 was a rather large cop I recall. Later on I'd watch 31245 - one of the tablet catcher recess-fitted batch - leaving Reading on a westbound passenger train and failing before it had cleared the platform!

 

Reminds me that I photographed 5801 in this condition at Kings Cross in late July 1970 - probably the second 31 I ever shot (5825 in blue at Derby the previous November had been the first).

[MidlandRed]

31 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

5801 was never a WR loco, which is why the BR Database doesn't list it as such. I saw a number of ER 31s on WR metals, including 5603 (in 4-logo blue) paired with Bath Road's green 5828 approaching Swindon from the west in 1973 - 5603 was a rather large cop I recall. Later on I'd watch 31245 - one of the tablet catcher recess-fitted batch - leaving Reading on a westbound passenger train and failing before it had cleared the platform!

 

Reminds me that I photographed 5801 in this condition at Kings Cross in late July 1970 - probably the second 31 I ever shot (5825 in blue at Derby the previous November had been the first).

Apologies - my cock up - I actually meant 5803 - which went to OOC in 1972 (BR database)!

Edited February 13 by MidlandRed

[GERARDTCC]

On 12/02/2024 at 22:06, MidlandRed said:

Very interesting stuff - so it appears D5801 became green/fye/arrow emblems/new font numerals between 24/1/67 and 6/9/67. That’s some considerable time before it went to the WR (although BR Database doesn’t list it as being allocated there - I’m sure I’ve seen photos of it on WR duties). I’m glad Accurascale have got this in ER condition! 
 

Im also pleased to see my recording of D5662/5 and D5815 in green, syp and arrows back in 1967 is borne out by this info (repainted between Nov 66 and Jan 67). It’s always possible to doubt one’s level of accuracy 45 yrs ago!! 

D5801 and D5803 received full yellow ends with arrows and new font numbers on 14th March & 10th August 1967 respectively. Both received EE engines then too.