lifting streamline

[MJI]

I have a semi built layout to scrap, just never finished, but want the track.

 

What is best way to lift track, glued down with ballast and PVA?

I really need the points and the concrete sleepered stuff.

 

Framework is breaking up and the location is poor.

[Philou]

Provided the PVA is NOT waterproof, you can re-wet it to loosen it. If the base is to be scrapped, it won't matter how much water you use! Having gently prised the nails up (if you used nails), remove them with a small pair pincers/pliers and you should be able to lift the trackwork. I have a very small upholstery tool that looks like the claws of a claw hammer that does the job as it fits between the rails (just!). It's ancient but still useful.

 

Good luck!

 

Philip

[MJI]

Thanks will try water next week.

 

Scrapping a half build garage layout as too cold and dirty.

 

Using the track for an inside layour, will be a bit smaller, but  warmer

[Peter Kazmierczak]

If you can't lift the pointwork, or feel that the sleeper base will shatter, then another way might be to cut out the point in situ, then skim down the baseboard from the underside. I used thismethod to recover some old track for my "Shardlow" layout.

[MJI]

It is on 40 year old chipboard, started at school but never finished, put into garage, have ran stuff, but too impractical.

 

So stuff sunk cost fallacy,  inside layout needs it.

[The Johnster]

The warmer the water the quicker the pva will soften, and hot water will probably overcome any waterproofing ability it may have had.  The glue will take no more than a few minutes to soften, and the track can be gently levered upwards; an old chisel is useful for this. The track has been ballasted so will be a bit of a mess underneath, but more warm water and a moderately gentle attack from beneath with a wire brush (or a more assertive one with an old stiff-bristled toothbrush) will do most of the cleaning work for you.  Might be a job to do while the track is still in the garage, thought, as it will be messy and there will be a lot of dirty water about!  Or wait until the weather is warm enough to do it outside with a pressure hose; normal tap pressure in a garden hose with a nozzle will do, but don't use warm water in one of those expanding hoses unless you are trying to make a long thin garden sprinkler...  If you're using hot water, protect your hands by wearing marigolds.

 

The track will be restored to a pretty good (and certainly re-usable) condition, but I'd suggest replacing the rail joiners if you use them and of course any flexi that has been curved will need the rail-ends trimming if it is to be laid in any different configuration that it's original one.  Ensure that there is no crud on the bottom surface of any of the track or the surface it is being laid on, as this will interfere with the flat laying of the track, essential for good running.  Check that turnouts and crossings are level, and that the tie-bars move correctly with the blades closing properly against the closure rails; residual glue may be preventing this.

 

When laying track, I only use track pins to secure it in position while the pva goes off, and do not hammer the pins in any lower than with the heads at sleeper top level.  This pays dividends when you lift the track, as the pins come out readily with the lifted sleepers, and can be re-used.  It is bad practice to hammer them in more than this anyway as you will be distorting the sleeper base; in extreme cases this may cause the rails to be pulled inwards and out of gauge, or the plastic chairs to fail.  I do not use foam underlay because of the difficulty in maintaining track pins at the sleeper level without distorting the sleeper base downwards.

Edited February 4 by The Johnster

[Richard_A]

See if you can get hold of an extremely sharp samurai sword, and slide it under the track, or practice your assassin skills by sliding a cheese wire under the track and slice it off. 🤪

 

[MJI]

All glued afair, and droppers for electric continuity.

 

This was about 5m so far run, in house will have about 7m.

 

Using twins old bedroom, still got a lot of their junk to shift.

[MartynJPearson]

I've (ab)used a steel rule to lift track. Once wetted to ease off the glue, I was able to insert the rule under the sleepers and work my way along the track to lift it up without bending it.

[Kris]

Hot water and a paint scraper will work.

[MJI]

Thanks all, will do it next weekend, got a few points i need for my pway depot.

[DCB]

On 04/02/2024 at 16:45, MJI said:

It is on 40 year old chipboard, started at school but never finished, put into garage, have ran stuff, but too impractical.

 

So stuff sunk cost fallacy,  inside layout needs it.

Just soak the chipboard  In my experience once damp it will disintegrate,I absolutely hate the stuff, heavy  weak no water resistance.   I replaced the chipb0ard on my garage roof and shed roof with tongue and groove after the chipboard disintegrated.
If patience is not your strong suit then a wallpaper scraper  5 for £1 at Poundland with the edge sharpened on the grinder is a pretty useful tool for getting under the sleepers freeing the track, just slide under the track don't try to lift it until it's absolutely loose.  When I have done track reclamation, on layouts i bought,  I often find  broken sleepers in yard lengths  when this happens I cut them out and slide the other sleepers up to close the gap,  then raid short lengths for spare sleepers and make  good.   Don't use short lengths, old fishplates and old track means voltage drop  so keep joints to a minimum, a feed every 6 joints  is my  aim on DC probably a feed for each yard plain track and several for each point  is  preferable for DCC . 

[MJI]

Every piece is connected to droppers, but new layout is ply. Worked out with my big stock of SH rail, my old layout, and left over streamline I will have most of what I need, may need another 10 length of concrete.

 

Was going to scrap the steel in the SH track, but that can be used for the PAD as old rail.

[MJI]

Lifted 2 lengths OK with 3 or 4 sleepers damaged.

Lifted 3 points, 1 fine, 2 disintegrated.

 

Going to get some PCB sleepers and a track gauge to rebuild them.

[MJI]

Second board nearly done, but 4 points coming up, one breaking so rebuild time

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I have done as you are doing in the past and ended up scrapping most of the track as being unusable once it was taken up. There is a lot of good quality cheap second hand points and track out there. So I personally would just scrap the lot and buy replacements.

Edited February 25 by cypherman

[MJI]

New value of recovered track is over 100 now.

 

Rebuilt one point onto copper clad sleepers.

 

Also was given a lot of old flexi track with steel rail, will strip dome for sleeper base.

 

I reckon i will lose the equivalent of 1 piece of concrete track.

 

4 good points, 2 needing small repairs, 1 needing rebuild, at least 6 still to lift.

[MJI]

[MJI]

2 undamaged points, 3 heavy damage, a few from a garden circuit last house.

 

10, or 11 so far being checked, so far one may be scrap, need 4 springs so far.

 

Heaviest repair so far is one third copper clad, and i just worked out a new repair method for the point motor sectoon.

[john new]

On 04/02/2024 at 18:17, The Johnster said:

The warmer the water the quicker the pva will soften, and hot water will probably overcome any waterproofing ability it may have had.  The glue will take no more than a few minutes to soften, and the track can be gently levered upwards; an old chisel is useful for this. The track has been ballasted so will be a bit of a mess underneath, but more warm water and a moderately gentle attack from beneath with a wire brush (or a more assertive one with an old stiff-bristled toothbrush) will do most of the cleaning work for you.  Might be a job to do while the track is still in the garage, thought, as it will be messy and there will be a lot of dirty water about!  Or wait until the weather is warm enough to do it outside with a pressure hose; normal tap pressure in a garden hose with a nozzle will do, but don't use warm water in one of those expanding hoses unless you are trying to make a long thin garden sprinkler...  If you're using hot water, protect your hands by wearing marigolds.

 

The track will be restored to a pretty good (and certainly re-usable) condition, but I'd suggest replacing the rail joiners if you use them and of course any flexi that has been curved will need the rail-ends trimming if it is to be laid in any different configuration that it's original one.  Ensure that there is no crud on the bottom surface of any of the track or the surface it is being laid on, as this will interfere with the flat laying of the track, essential for good running.  Check that turnouts and crossings are level, and that the tie-bars move correctly with the blades closing properly against the closure rails; residual glue may be preventing this.

 

When laying track, I only use track pins to secure it in position while the pva goes off, and do not hammer the pins in any lower than with the heads at sleeper top level.  This pays dividends when you lift the track, as the pins come out readily with the lifted sleepers, and can be re-used.  It is bad practice to hammer them in more than this anyway as you will be distorting the sleeper base; in extreme cases this may cause the rails to be pulled inwards and out of gauge, or the plastic chairs to fail.  I do not use foam underlay because of the difficulty in maintaining track pins at the sleeper level without distorting the sleeper base downwards.

Works well as a technique. This lot of code 75 from a bought in set of boards in an old dustbin full of water soaking off the last of the ballast. (Last summer), obviuosly reverse the soaked ends after a while if long lengths.. I lost some of the webbing getting it back up but at least 3/4s reusable and even from what got damaged I have the spare rails to re-use with PCB sleepers. The boards were bought for stripping and reusing from a downsizing modeller the fact they had some track and points still on them was an unexpected bonus.

 

 

[MJI]

Most of these will be sidings, but recovering the concrete sleeper stuff will save money.