Occupation farm crossing gates

[47606odin]

I’m looking at adding a farm crossing sort of pre war era on the western region (if that makes any difference) on a single track branch, but what I’m not sure of is, what style of gates would have been used?

 

would it be a railway built crossing gate, or just a normal 5 bar farm gate that would be opened outwards into the farm track allowing the crossing to be open both sides before crossing without obscuring the track?
 

any thoughts would be appreciated. I’m thinking of an old open farm gate leaning against a hedge with a dirt track leading up to it

Edited February 5 by 47606odin

[AMJ]

From the farm gates that I have seen on many preserved lines they tend to be as you say farm wooden 5 bar gates opening into the fields.  

 

Suspect that the railway is liable to provide the fencing/walls and gates but maintained by local farmer to the standard deemed adequate to the railway.  Just look at the way modern fences have appeared alongside lines in recent times along with H&S notices on gates.

[Michael Hodgson]

44 minutes ago, 47606odin said:

I’m looking at adding a farm crossing sort of pre war era on the western region (if that makes any difference) on a single track branch, but what I’m not sure of is, what style of gates would have been used?

 

would it be a railway built crossing gate, or just a normal 5 bar farm gate that would be opened outwards into the farm track allowing the crossing to be open both sides before crossing without obscuring the track?
 

any thoughts would be appreciated. I’m thinking of an old open farm gate leaning against a hedge with a dirt track leading up to it

Yes, pretty much that.  I would also expect to see a notice warning about trespass and threatening a fine for failing to close the gates.

[Michael Hodgson]

Also a lineside whistle notice on the approach if there was any issue on visibility

 

 

[47606odin]

Thanks guys, that answers my thoughts. 
 

any idea if I can get the trespass and gate closure signs in OO?

[AMJ]

@47606odin  If you have access to a colour printer you can resize images of signs - this is often easier done by pasting into word and using the ruler so that you know the printed dimension.  At least these use mm and can then scale 1' to 4mm

[Michael Hodgson]

Probably, but you could print them yourself on a colour printer.  Colour would very according to period.

[MartinRS]

You could have a look at the map and list at https://abcrailwayguide.uk/search/?q=level+crossing

Here are some modern metal examples from the site, none from the West Country though:

 

https://abcrailwayguide.uk/rectory-farm-private-level-crossing-cambridgeshire

https://abcrailwayguide.uk/tam-crossing-private-level-crossing-moray

https://abcrailwayguide.uk/haverigg-cattle-crossing-private-level-crossing-cumbria

https://abcrailwayguide.uk/muirhouse-farm-private-level-crossing-dumfries-and-galloway

https://abcrailwayguide.uk/frognal-farm-private-level-crossing-kent

[Paul H Vigor]

Don't forget the slatted wooden cattle grids to protect the running line from livestock!

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Don't forget the slatted wooden cattle grids to protect the running line from livestock!

In the OP's pre-war era?

[KeithHC]

Would there have been a difference if the crossing also included a public right of way. Who would have the responsibility of maintaining the gates.

 

Keith

[The Stationmaster]

Occupation (NOT 'occupational') crossing gates were ordinary 5 bar wooden gates and they opened away from the railway.  The crossing was usually surfaced - tombers lyong parallel with the running rails next to the rails and the rest would be something like conder fill on top of ballast.  

 

The lower of tthe two notoces illustrated by Michael Hodgson was fixed to the non-railway side of the gate on, pr close to the top rail towards the opening end or centrally.   I have never come across an occupation crossing with cattle guards but the later issues of the Requirements said they should be provided 'if the crossing 'is habitually used by cattle'.   In some cases a 'phone to the nearest signal box might be provided but very unusual pre-war I would thin (and fairly uncommon post war come to that.  SW boards for trains sighted several hundred yards from the crossing.

 

Now definitely not an example for you - the one on our branch - used for polo ponies (!!) - still doesn't have cattle guards afaik but has a paved approach with guard fences at the sides and a solid surface where it crosses the railway.  The gate is modern style ansd not typical of the old pattern of field gate.  NR picture below wh shows what it is like - very fancy and must have cost the landowner a fortune but his site has two polo pitches(?) and stabling for around a couple of dozen polo ponies so I suspect the cost didn't come as a heartache for him.  

 

You can click on the photo to enlarge it, -

 

https://abcrailwayguide.uk/bolney-farm-private-level-crossing-oxfordshire

 

PS NR Don't seem to have much idea about 'level crossings'  as this one is not a legally defined level crossing but is still legally an Occupation Crossing

Edited February 5 by The Stationmaster

[MartinRS]

Network rail use both the terms occupation crossing and accommodation crossing depending on circumstance, as is explained here.

More information can be found here https://www.railsigns.uk/info/xings1.html though I can't find any information on when slatted wooden cattle grids came into use.

 

Here are a couple of modern photos of combined occupation crossings and footpaths from different locations

 

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5443954

 

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2803334

[Michael Hodgson]

12 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Now definitely not an example for you - the one on our branch - used for polo ponies (!!) - still doesn't have cattle guards afaik but has a paved approach with guard fences at the sides and a solid surface where it crosses the railway. 

The horsey set is not exactly what I'd call a farm, but I suppose terminology can lead to misunderstandings.  I went to the USA about the time of "Mad Cow disease" (when Mrs Thatcher was PM) and had to fill in a form and was questioned by the border staff...

Have you been on a farm in the last 28 days?  No.  I work in banking.

Have you been on a ranch?  No.  We only have farms in England.  What's a ranch? 

 

Your comment about lack of cattle gauards is interesting.  Perhaps concern about cows getting on the line is the same as the farmers' continual griping about townies coming and letting animals loose by not shutting gates behind them.  As the farmer is the only one supposed to use an occupation crossing and has a vested interest in his cattle, perhaps he can be expect to know better and will move his beasts securely?  Though there has clearly been an issue with (arable?) farmers seeing gates as an inconvenience while the railway management's obligation is based on the assumption that all farms keep animals.

[Paul H Vigor]

2 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Don't forget the slatted wooden cattle grids to protect the running line from livestock!

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1330462

[Oldddudders]

11 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1330462

I am very familiar with the concept - but the OP is wishing to use a Pre-war setting, and I dispute they were at all common in them thar days. 

[Jeremy Cumberland]

3 hours ago, AMJ said:

Suspect that the railway is liable to provide the fencing/walls and gates but maintained by local farmer to the standard deemed adequate to the railway. 

Maintained by the railway, surely. Railway companies were/are responsible for fences and gates.

 

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

I am very familiar with the concept - but the OP is wishing to use a Pre-war setting, and I dispute they were at all common in them thar days. 

Fair enough.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Occupation (NOT 'occupational') crossing gates were ordinary 5 bar wooden gates and they opened away from the railway.  The crossing was usually surfaced - tombers lyong parallel with the running rails next to the rails and the rest would be something like conder fill on top of ballast.  

 

The lower of tthe two notoces illustrated by Michael Hodgson was fixed to the non-railway side of the gate on, pr close to the top rail towards the opening end or centrally.   I have never come across an occupation crossing with cattle guards but the later issues of the Requirements said they should be provided 'if the crossing 'is habitually used by cattle'.   In some cases a 'phone to the nearest signal box might be provided but very unusual pre-war I would thin (and fairly uncommon post war come to that.  SW boards for trains sighted several hundred yards from the crossing.

 

Now definitely not an example for you - the one on our branch - used for polo ponies (!!) - still doesn't have cattle guards afaik but has a paved approach with guard fences at the sides and a solid surface where it crosses the railway.  The gate is modern style ansd not typical of the old pattern of field gate.  NR picture below wh shows what it is like - very fancy and must have cost the landowner a fortune but his site has two polo pitches(?) and stabling for around a couple of dozen polo ponies so I suspect the cost didn't come as a heartache for him.  

 

You can click on the photo to enlarge it, -

 

https://abcrailwayguide.uk/bolney-farm-private-level-crossing-oxfordshire

 

PS NR Don't seem to have much idea about 'level crossings'  as this one is not a legally defined level crossing but is still legally an Occupation Crossing

Did it pass the assessment due in Feb 2023?

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Did it pass the assessment due in Feb 2023?

Presumably - it's still open.  And if the wond is in the right direction I can tell when trains are approacghing as I can hear the horn being sounded - despite it being c.2 miles away!

 

 

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The horsey set is not exactly what I'd call a farm, but I suppose terminology can lead to misunderstandings.  I went to the USA about the time of "Mad Cow disease" (when Mrs Thatcher was PM) and had to fill in a form and was questioned by the border staff...

Have you been on a farm in the last 28 days?  No.  I work in banking.

Have you been on a ranch?  No.  We only have farms in England.  What's a ranch? 

 

Your comment about lack of cattle gauards is interesting.  Perhaps concern about cows getting on the line is the same as the farmers' continual griping about townies coming and letting animals loose by not shutting gates behind them.  As the farmer is the only one supposed to use an occupation crossing and has a vested interest in his cattle, perhaps he can be expect to know better and will move his beasts securely?  Though there has clearly been an issue with (arable?) farmers seeing gates as an inconvenience while the railway management's obligation is based on the assumption that all farms keep animals.

It was a farm crossing before the polo lot moved in and took over oart of the farm so they no doubt toopk over the rights.

 

Big difference when it comes to taking different animals overa crossing - horss are usual trained and can be controlled, normally being led on a halter.  Cattle are crossed over, usually, as part of a herd and the herd instinct can take over -driving cattle needs hets in the back of your head and being careful to watch for any trying to break away.   The onlu Occupation crossing incidenmts I've been involved in have involved cattle.  in one of them the herdsman was trying to drive 40 heifers over a crossing and apart from not first checking with the Signalman he apparently lost control of them as they were too many to safely handle - especially when a Class 33 hit them at line speed killing at least 15 outright.

[45655]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I am very familiar with the concept - but the OP is wishing to use a Pre-war setting, and I dispute they were at all common in them thar days. 

I think "cattle grids" at crossings only really came into use pre-War on third rail electrified lines.  There was particular issue with the Southern's 1938 Mid-Sussex scheme because it ran through a rural area and concern was raised in Parliament about the risk of livestock straying onto the line and being electrocuted.  At the 1937 SR annual meeting the chairman stated that on electrified lines cattle grids were provided at crossings to prevent cattle leaving the crossing.  (The implication being that on non-electrified lines they weren't.)

 

Incidentally the early cattle grids were arranged with the long side of the triangular section longitudinals facing down.  (This can be seen in contemporary photographs.)  I don't know how effective they were at deterring cattle and sheep but human trespassers could certainly walk over them.  The more recent arrangement, with the long side facing up, is much more effective.

 

Keith

Alton.

[Nearholmer]

Slightly OT, but an example of a bridleway crossing, renewed and upgraded with the past three or four years, with no “cattle grids”. It’s a strange old crossing, because the railway in on an embankment, so there is what amounts to a staircase up each side, and where you wait clear of the line while you check for oncoming trains is inside, on the track side, of the gate. It’s a bit of a faff with a bike, and must be more of a faff with a potentially skittish horse, but it is regularly used by equestrians.

 

 

Bridleway crossings  are different in status from occupation and accommodation crossings because, like footpaths, they are for a public right of way. Nothing to stop someone herding animals across them though.

 

 

Edited February 5 by Nearholmer

[eastglosmog]

An example of a GWR occupation/accommodation gate across a farm track and footpath near Bledington on the Kingham-Stow section of the Banbury and Cheltenham, closed in 1964.

[Michael Hodgson]

39 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Slightly OT, but an example of a bridleway crossing, renewed and upgraded with the past three or four years, with no “cattle grids”. It’s a strange old crossing, because the railway in on an embankment, so there is what amounts to a staircase up each side, and where you wait clear of the line while you check for oncoming trains is inside, on the track side, of the gate. It’s a bit of a faff with a bike, and must be more of a faff with a potentially skittish horse, but it is regularly used by equestrians.

 

 

Bridleway crossings  are different in status from occupation and accommodation crossings because, like footpaths, they are for a public right of way. Nothing to stop someone herding animals across them though.

 

 

Bridleway crossing, formerly public road crossing, gatekeeper's cottage now in private hands and has been extended. 

Not sure it would be a good idea to herd cattle across here, even though it's got a phone.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Bit of a sign-fest!

 

At least when the one I showed was tidied-up, a new ‘unified’ sign was fitted on each side, listing all the hazards, ‘dos’ and ‘donts’ in one place.

Edited February 5 by Nearholmer