Moral Dilemma

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry I don't want to hijack this thread but the word "worsenment" - I've never seen it before so I googled it and find out it was used in a RailSys document relating to Liverpool St. Is this railspeak?

 

When it comes to safety you tell whoever will listen - if the Station Master does not care I give up.

 

Again, sorry don't mean to seem to be picking on you "The Stationmaster" because otherwise your post was sensible....

 

Best, Pete.

 

A couple of points have already been explained so I won't repeat them but one thing, of possible relevance, worth mentioning is something which has come into the public arena very recently. During the Inquest into the deaths of those killed in the Potters Bar derailment it came to light that 'a member of railway staff' had felt a bump as his train passed through that area; when he alighted at his home station he 'reported' the bump to the booking clerk - who allegedly did not pass on the message.

 

I don't know which company the person who 'felt the bump' worked for but - whatever the Inquest might conclude - in my view he clearly didn't follow it up with the sort of action which would indicate it presented an immediate risk to safety. At the very least he should have asked to use a 'phone to report the matter to Control and not rely on someone who was not at all familiar with the detail to pass on a message.

 

Had it been a member of the public who had done that I would have a slightly different view because to them 'the railway' is a sort of whole still and they might not have had the advantage of reading this thread. But.......

[Nick Holliday]

Just an update on the situation.

Following my original posts I noticed that there was an engineering possession the next weekend, so I gave NR the benefit of the doubt, and expected that they would be working at Epsom as well as at Sutton. However, a week after that, I was able to observe that, if anything, the state of the track had worsened, so I re-wrote my letter and sent it off to NR as suggested. A week or so later I received an anodyne reply, basically saying that everything was checked at least fortnightly (Oh Yeah?) and that my comments woudl be passed on to the relevant section.

Another week or so went past, and I did finally get a reply from the correct department. Although quite detailed, it was still slightly patronising, but it did at least suggest that some action to eliminate the problems would take place in August. The entire line from Streatham to Leatherhead was also closed over the Bank Holiday weekend, so I was expecting great things - the advance of concrete sleepers all the way from Sutton to Epsom at least.

Today I have had the opportunity to inspect the track concerned again, and I suppose I should be grateful that they have actually done something to restore the safety of the track. The ballast has been given a clean (of sorts), the keys on the check rail have been tidied up, and all the bolts holding the bullhead rail chairs have been tightened up - indeed a number of these have actually been replaced with brand new, shiny ones. No doubt this is meant as a stop gap measure - the completely rotten sleepers and broken chairs are still there.

I should be grateful that it is marginally safer, probably in a better state than it has been for a couple of years, but I wonder if anything would have been done if I hadn't written to them?

[Poor Old Bruce]

One point of contact I have not seen mentioned on this thread is that every bridge now has a plate attached giving a contact telephone number, presumably the local signal/power box. I know that the immediate use for the number is for bridge strikes but they really should be interested in the overall safety aspect and at least pass on your concerns or give you somewhere else to contact.

[Ceptic]

The thing is....If you, or anyone else, were driving a car, in this condition, and put it in for an MOT test. or worse still, had been pulled over for a road side inspection,...What would have been the result ?

 

 

[Nick Holliday]

Glad to report that over the weekend all the offending track was removed and replaced with un-checked flat-bottom rail on concrete sleepers! I can travel on the line and not have to hold my breath as we enter the station. Though I bet there's someone in Network Rail cursing the interfering member of the public who made them carry out the remedial work they should have done months ago, just a fortnight before it was replaced.

[Mallard60022]

Glad to report that over the weekend all the offending track was removed and replaced with un-checked flat-bottom rail on concrete sleepers! I can travel on the line and not have to hold my breath as we enter the station. Though I bet there's someone in Network Rail cursing the interfering member of the public who made them carry out the remedial work they should have done months ago, just a fortnight before it was replaced.

 

 

Well done mate. They may well curse that 'wasted time' however, not as much as he/she might curse as they are accused of negligence or similar in an enquiry.

This is a lesson for us all really.

Good advice generally all round too; well done all.

36E

[R A Watson]

Now that I have seen the photos (late as usual) I would like to point out that network standards allow for one good sleeper in a consequetive run of three, the other two being suspect or in need of renewal, as an acceptable condition. Here you have one bad between two good so all is temporarily ok. The bad one has been marked with a yellow cross so has been noted as in need of changing, but with ajacent third rail this is not an easy job as a one off.

 

The fact that there has been large scale replacement means that the problem has been the subject of planning for some time and "management" were probably aware long before you noticed it.

 

But at the same time it is always best to err on the side of caution.

 

Wally

[Southernman46]

Whilst waiting for my connection at Epsom station yesterday, I noticed that the permanent way gang had been carrying out some work on a section of check railed incorporating bullhead rail. The first thing I spotted was that some of the wooden keys had fallen out. There were also numbers of steel spring keys in use, together with a fair number of broken ones scattered in the four foot. It was a bit worrying that something presumably made out of spring steel could break so easily, suggesting very poor quality control in manufacture.

I then inspected the rest of the track and became even more worried. Over 60% of the bolts on the inside of the chairs on the outside of the curve (three bolt chairs with two on the inside) were at least an inch out of the chair, and looked as if they had been loosened to allow for quick replacement sometime in the future, and there were two or three on the outside of the chair also similarly loosened. In addition at least two of the sleepers were rotted through with others in very poor condition, and there was one chair where the inside of the casting had broken off completely.

Everywhere the ballast was in desperate need of replacement, mainly consisting of years of accumulation of oil, brake dust and water forming an almost bitumen-like paste. Some attempt had been made fairly recently to tackle this, but it hadn’t gone beyond digging out some of the filthy ballast and putting it back loosely – gone are the days when a small gang armed with shovels and sieves worked on this problem throughout the day, I suppose.

In the light of “accidents†like Hatfield I couldn’t believe the poor state of the track. An official on the station told me it had been like that for a number of years, and I suppose the only reason nothing serious has occurred is the 20 mph limit for the curve to Sutton, and the fact that almost all trains stop at the platform. He also was not aware of any immediate likelihood of work on this section of track, although Sutton has recently had a major programme of track replacement, so perhaps they are slowly working towards Epsom.

I work in the building industry and despite its perceived image, such potentially hazardous situations would not be tolerated, and if the HSE were involved, we would be required to stop all other work until these faults had been corrected. I am shocked that there doesn’t seem to be the same regard for safety when large numbers of the general public are potentially at risk. Unless someone can persuade me otherwise, I feel that I should report this matter, but can anyone suggest to whom? The National Rail website is fairly unhelpful in this regard, and even the HSE website offers no suggestions as to how this might be reported.

 

 

 

The responsible NR Engineer for this area is Ian Ross and he can be contacted

 

He will welcome your professional and well laid out concerns and be able to assure you that things are in hand.

[Anglian]

I've reported a section of track where the fencing had broken away making access to the rails all too easy for animals and children. I was very impressed at the speed at which it was sorted out. I say even if in doubt report it.

[ess1uk]

what happened with this?

they were shocking pictures

has it been sorted?

[Glorious NSE]

Read post #32 in the thread.