Class 33 ends?

[Pete33]

Just a quick question: which end of the class 33 diesels are considered to be the "A" end?

Thanks in advance,

Pete

[4630]

6 minutes ago, Pete33 said:

Just a quick question: which end of the class 33 diesels are considered to be the "A" end?

Thanks in advance,

Pete

The fan end is the No. 1 end.

[Steadfast]

On BR locos its pretty much standard that the radiator is no. 1 end.

More recent builds from overseas tend to be the reverse, with 59, 66, 70 etc having the radiator no. 2 end, as is the American standard. 

 

Jo

[Wickham Green too]

30 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

On BR locos its pretty much standard that the radiator is no. 1 end.  ...

Pretty much - but then you have the oddballs with two engines, radiators etc. thrown into the mix to confuse everybody !

[SRman]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Pretty much - but then you have the oddballs with two engines, radiators etc. thrown into the mix to confuse everybody !

 

Yes. I still have trouble with those! 🤣

In those cases, turn on the lights if it has them and see which end lights up.

I can think of quite a few classes of diesel that are difficult to tell. Sometimes there is one asymmetrical feature, such as a boiler port, but I still have difficulty remembering which way is the #1 cab end (or the 'A' end on Western Region locos).

Such classes include class 41, 42 and 43 Warships, class 52 Westerns, class 53 'Falcon', and Class 55 Deltics. There may be others I have missed.

[jim.snowdon]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Pretty much - but then you have the oddballs with two engines, radiators etc. thrown into the mix to confuse everybody !

The only certainty will be that the No.1/A end will be the end where Forward on the controller sets up the Forward train line. But then, with two engines and, therefore two traction equipments, one will be in Forward, the other in Reverse.

None of this will be obvious to the bystander however.....

[Halvarras]

4 hours ago, Steadfast said:

On BR locos its pretty much standard that the radiator is no. 1 end.

 

Yes that appears to be the case........except on the always contrary Western Region where 'No 1 End/No 2 End' became 'A End/B End' and on the single-engined diesel-hydraulic Classes 22 & 35 the non-radiator end was A! (Class 22's radiator grilles were only slightly off-centre but towards the B End - but the Class 21/29 diesel-electric equivalents followed the No 1 radiator end convention).

 

I have a 2004 Chinese-made Hornby Hymek D7046 (R2410) on which, no matter which way round the model is held, the A End is always on the left. More inexplicable is how Heljan have made exactly the same error on their most recent batch of Hymeks after getting it right (I believe) for the previous 20 years!

[SRman]

I was fiddling with the function settings on my Kernow class 41 A1A-A1A Warship a couple of days ago, and while I had it on the test track, I drew a couple of silver arrows with a Sharpie pen under the battery boxes indicating which way was forwards. While that won't help me when the loco is on the tracks, it will assist in getting it the way round that I want while setting up a train.

Of course, for normal viewing distances, the tiny numbers or letters near the cab doors are not readable, even if they are there.

[Wickham Green too]

Set up a different headcode on each end ( and keep a note of what's what ) ??!? ................. or the driver wearing a cap is at one end and the one without at the other p'raps ?

[slilley]

17 hours ago, SRman said:

 

Yes. I still have trouble with those! 🤣

In those cases, turn on the lights if it has them and see which end lights up.

I can think of quite a few classes of diesel that are difficult to tell. Sometimes there is one asymmetrical feature, such as a boiler port, but I still have difficulty remembering which way is the #1 cab end (or the 'A' end on Western Region locos).

Such classes include class 41, 42 and 43 Warships, class 52 Westerns, class 53 'Falcon', and Class 55 Deltics. There may be others I have missed.

There was never a Class 41 Warship. It is a myth. The two digit class nos were prepared by the CR (T&RS) AE Robson in March 1968 after the D600 Warships had been withdrawn. I have a copy of the list and can assure everyone that those locos do not appear.

 

Simon

[jim.snowdon]

6 hours ago, slilley said:

There was never a Class 41 Warship. It is a myth. The two digit class nos were prepared by the CR (T&RS) AE Robson in March 1968 after the D600 Warships had been withdrawn. I have a copy of the list and can assure everyone that those locos do not appear.

 

Simon

Which will always prompt the question as to why 41 was unused, or what it was intended for.

[Wickham Green too]

.... and a few other unused numbers.

[Phatbob]

On the subject of class 33 ends, don't forget to model the dimple in their chin.  Most, if not all, off the 33/0 and 33/2 locos acquired a dent above the coupling hook for some reason unknown to me.
 

[Halvarras]

4 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

.... and a few other unused numbers.

 

True, but when you look at the TOPS classifications as a whole for the mainline locomotive types, the first digit mostly corresponded to the four power categories - although that doesn't explain Class 20s not being Class 19. There were so many Type 2s that Classes 30/31 overshot into the sparsely populated Type 3 'group' - but then the EE upgrade virtually made them Type 3s anyway. Then there were enough Type 4s to push the Westerns into the even more sparsely populated Type 5 'group' - but again this doesn't explain Class 50 not being Class 49!

So why didn't the D8xx Warships become Classes 41/42 instead of 42/43? It just seems a bit odd that Class 41 was left blank just where the D600s would have slotted in, which makes me wonder whether their withdrawal at the end of 1967 wasn't 100% certain when the classifications were being considered - after all the Hymeks and Westerns defied their original withdrawal plan by a couple of years or so. Perhaps at one stage consideration was given to D800-2 being Class 41? But where would that have left D830.....?

 

It hardly matters as it's all history now, Classes 20 and 50 just seem 'right' and I'm trying to apply logic where none was required.......which is probably why I feel like I've painted myself into a corner. Over and out I think 🤐!

[Halvarras]

25 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

On the subject of class 33 ends, don't forget to model the dimple in their chin.  Most, if not all, off the 33/0 and 33/2 locos acquired a dent above the coupling hook for some reason unknown to me.
 

 

There's no doubt that it was connected to the coupling shackle, but whether the dent was accidental or deliberate (to make life easier for shunting staff by increasing clearance above the hook) I couldn't say. My guess would be that it was created accidentally by repeated clouting with the shackle, and deliberately left there during works overhauls as filling it in would have been pointless!

[97406]

16 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Which will always prompt the question as to why 41 was unused, or what it was intended for.

 

The prototype HST power cars had 41xxx numbers and have been classed as Class 41. Whether they were known as Class 41 in the early 70s is another matter.

Edited February 13 by 97406

[Wickham Green too]

35 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

There's no doubt that it was connected to the coupling shackle, ...

Classes 26 & 27 suffered similarly - though a little different as they originally had nose doors.

[slilley]

On 12/02/2024 at 23:18, jim.snowdon said:

Which will always prompt the question as to why 41 was unused, or what it was intended for.

It is not clear, Robson did leave a number of gaps in the list, so it is possible they were intended potential future use.

 

Simon