MB Klein reopens under Factory Direct Hobbies

[BrakeCoach]

Heard that MB Klein changed their front page recently, and lo and behold...

 

This message is still up there on https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/

Thought it would be interesting for you all since Hattons bought this shortly before their closure.

Edited March 13 by BrakeCoach

[kevinlms]

This is rare, often the holders of gift vouchers, go to the bottom of the list of creditors, when companies wind up. Unless the state of whatever Model Train Stuff is in has laws that say otherwise.

 

Gift Certificates

We have contacted customers with outstanding gift certificates to refund the remaining balance.

[phil-b259]

5 hours ago, kevinlms said:

This is rare, often the holders of gift vouchers, go to the bottom of the list of creditors, when companies wind up. Unless the state of whatever Model Train Stuff is in has laws that say otherwise.

 

Gift Certificates

We have contacted customers with outstanding gift certificates to refund the remaining balance.

You are mixing up insolvency / bankruptcy and an orderly business closure!

 

Under insolvency / bankruptcy laws then it’s true that holders of gift cards and suchlike are the bottom of the pile in terms of creditors to be reimbursed and given the whole reason for insolvency / bankruptcy is a lack of funds then said card / certificate holders usually get nothing.

 

However if a full solvent business is simply closing down because the owner wishes to cease trading (as opposed to being forced to cease trading) then it’s entirely possible sufficient funds exist to compensate gift card / certificate holders as part of the orderly winding down of the business.

Edited February 12 by phil-b259

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

You are mixing up insolvency / bankruptcy and an orderly business closure!

 

Under insolvency / bankruptcy laws then it’s true that holders of gift cards and suchlike are the bottom of the pile in terms of creditors to be reimbursed and given the who reason for insolvency / bankruptcy is a lack of funds then said card / certificate holders usually get nothing.

 

However if a full solvent business is simply closing down because the owner wishes to cease  trading (as opposed to being forced to cease trading then it’s entirely possible sufficient funds exist to compensate gift card / certificate holders as part of the orderly winding down of the business.

I'm quite aware of the difference. I was merely pointing out that often when businesses fail, stuff like vouchers are worth nothing.

I said nothing to suggest that MB Klein has gone bankrupt. In fact I said 'often the holders of gift vouchers' etc,

 

which to me means that what is happening to Klein's gift vouchers is different.

 

So thanks for not reading my comments properly and assuming I said that they went bust!

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

I'm quite aware of the difference. 

 

Then why did you feel the need to put down something that was not relevant to Klein's?

 

13 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

 

which to me means that what is happening to Klein's gift vouchers is different.

 

 

Given Hattons (the owners of Klein's) have just shut themselves down because the owner did not wish to continue trading then its fair to assume that the same orderly winding up of the business will be taking place to the North American entity.

 

Ensuring that the owners of gift cards / vouchers don't lose their money is, in my view, very much a part of winding down a solvent business and hardly an unusual step in that context.....

 

 

 

 

 

[kevinlms]

28 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Then why did you feel the need to put down something that was not relevant to Klein's?

 

Sorry I spoke out of turn, next time I'll ask you before posting!

[2E Sub Shed]

An American's take on MBK closure

 

https://conrail1285.com/so-what-happened-to-mb-klein/

[BrakeCoach]

51 minutes ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

An American's take on MBK closure

 

https://conrail1285.com/so-what-happened-to-mb-klein/

This means that the key members of both Hattons and MB Klein have passed away, and their ownership in someone else before their closure. That would have definitely had an effect on both businesses.

[rab]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I'm quite aware of the difference. I was merely pointing out that often when businesses fail, stuff like vouchers are worth nothing.

 

 

 

I think perhaps you need to clarify your understanding

of the difference between a business failing and closing down.

 

Your comment suggests the business had run out of money,

which is not the case; they simply made the decision to

close down, with sufficient money in the bank to honour

all financial commitments, and hopefully something left over.

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, rab said:

I think perhaps you need to clarify your understanding

of the difference between a business failing and closing down.

 

Your comment suggests the business had run out of money,

which is not the case; they simply made the decision to

close down, with sufficient money in the bank to honour

all financial commitments, and hopefully something left over.

I said no such thing. Why read something into my comments that isn't there?

 

I 100% agree that they chose to close down and are apparently meeting ALL financial commitments.

[woodenhead]

6 hours ago, BrakeCoach said:

This means that the key members of both Hattons and MB Klein have passed away, and their ownership in someone else before their closure. That would have definitely had an effect on both businesses.

At the time of closure neither Hattons nor MB Klein were family businesses any longer, this is nothing to do with anyone passing away.

[rab]

10 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I said no such thing. Why read something into my comments that isn't there?

 

I 100% agree that they chose to close down and are apparently meeting ALL financial commitments.

 

Your previous post

19 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I'm quite aware of the difference. I was merely pointing out that often when businesses fail, stuff like vouchers are worth nothing.

 

You referred to businesses failing, (which I have highlighted).

Klien have not "Failed", they have merely closed down.

 

That is the point I was trying to make

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, rab said:

 

Your previous post

You referred to businesses failing, (which I have highlighted).

Klien have not "Failed", they have merely closed down.

 

That is the point I was trying to make

Point out where I specifically said Klein's failed, if you can?

[Phil Parker]

Does anyone actually have anything useful to add - or it this just a handbags at dawn argument? Do you want the thread locked?

 

[Dungrange]

It does look as though no-one has anything useful to add.  Even the title is misleading, as it doesn't appear that MB Klein will be returning.   If the business is just shutting down, which is the case here, I seen nothing unusual in them contacting customers with outstanding gift certificates to refund the remaining balance.  I'd consider that to be normal.  It's only when businesses fail that the holders of gift vouchers tend to get nothing because they are near the bottom of the list of creditors and there is rarely enough money to refund them.

[MattR]

43 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Even the title is misleading, as it doesn't appear that MB Klein will be returning.

 

The header on their website, as displayed in the top of this thread, says they are returning and to stay tuned. That's the basis of this thread. Not the tangent about gift certificates.

 

Whether it's a website glitch, hack, etc. remains to be seen.

 

 

Edited February 13 by MattR

[rab]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

Does anyone actually have anything useful to add - or it this just a handbags at dawn argument? Do you want the thread locked?

 

I've put my handbag away. :)

 

I for one don't want to be the reason

for a thread being locked.

[BrakeCoach]

53 minutes ago, MattR said:

 

The header on their website, as displayed in the top of this thread, says they are returning and to stay tuned. That's the basis of this thread. Not the tangent about gift certificates.

 

Whether it's a website glitch, hack, etc. remains to be seen.

 

 

yep, I left that slither of screencap on just to have some authencity on the entire page. not the center of any argument here. I have no clue how people just decided to talk about gift vouchers and the like

Edited February 13 by BrakeCoach

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, BrakeCoach said:

yep, I left that slither of screencap on just to have some authencity on the entire page. not the center of any argument here. I have no clue how people just decided to talk about gift vouchers and the like

Because they can and it seems popular on forums and other social media to pick fights for the sake of it these days.

 

Many a thread into the dustbin because people don't talk anymore.

 

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

The header on their website, as displayed in the top of this thread, says they are returning and to stay tuned. That's the basis of this thread.

 

I suspect that it's more likely that someone else has bought the modeltrainstuff.com web domain name rather than a resurrection of the MB Klein business (as the thread title presumes).  Presumably there is some goodwill with the brand name, which I suspect has been sold.  What is subsequently sold online through a modeltrainstuff.com website, we'll have to wait and see. 

[Covkid]

2 hours ago, MattR said:

 

The header on their website, as displayed in the top of this thread, says they are returning and to stay tuned. That's the basis of this thread. Not the tangent about gift certificates.

 

Whether it's a website glitch, hack, etc. remains to be seen.

 

1 hour ago, Dungrange said:

I suspect that it's more likely that someone else has bought the modeltrainstuff.com web domain name rather than a resurrection of the MB Klein business (as the thread title presumes).  Presumably there is some goodwill with the brand name, which I suspect has been sold.  What is subsequently sold online through a modeltrainstuff.com website, we'll have to wait and see. 

That is a possibility I hadn't considered "Dungrange Park".

 

I keep expecting someone to explain it all logically, but that hasn't happened yet. I expect the P class, AB and Warwells etc will always have been of value, but their "handover" to Accurascale, RoS etc  seem a little disjointed. This suggests to me that the closedown plan in Widnes was quite a swift decision, rather than restructuring into retail and maybe manufacturing as separate business units.     

[woodenhead]

4 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

That is a possibility I hadn't considered "Dungrange Park".

 

I keep expecting someone to explain it all logically, but that hasn't happened yet. I expect the P class, AB and Warwells etc will always have been of value, but their "handover" to Accurascale, RoS etc  seem a little disjointed. This suggests to me that the closedown plan in Widnes was quite a swift decision, rather than restructuring into retail and maybe manufacturing as separate business units.     

There was an interview with Richard Davies - he said the structure of Hattons did not allow a breaking up to retain the profitable elements hence it was all closed down and the bits he could sell he sold.  Even the Hattons name has value so it may reappear itself as a new company if someone buys the name - like Debenhams for example.

[jjb1970]

I am sceptical of businesses buying the names of once great companies and launching new businesses on the back of a name. It's very common (a lot of electronic companies have little if anything to do with the old companies people associate with them), MG cars etc. I remember a few years ago someone relaunched Victors, the model railway shop which specialized in overseas models and which could be argued was a bigger loss for those of us in Britain interested in foreign outline than Hattons is to UK outline. I guess Hornby is an exception, when Triang decided to use the more storied name.

[BrakeCoach]

8 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I am sceptical of businesses buying the names of once great companies and launching new businesses on the back of a name. It's very common (a lot of electronic companies have little if anything to do with the old companies people associate with them), MG cars etc. I remember a few years ago someone relaunched Victors, the model railway shop which specialized in overseas models and which could be argued was a bigger loss for those of us in Britain interested in foreign outline than Hattons is to UK outline. I guess Hornby is an exception, when Triang decided to use the more storied name.

If MB Klein is actually coming back, I, and I have to tread carefully with a topic like this, am a bit worried why that decision was to be made.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

. I guess Hornby is an exception, when Triang decided to use the more storied name.

But the Tri-ang name could no longer be used by the model railway maker, because the name 'Tri-ang' had been sold off along with the pram or similar product range.

So they needed a new name, as they owned the 'Hornby' name, it made sense to use it and call the result 'Hornby Railways'.