Need help identifying this

[Tomslink]

Hi guys and girls, could anybody help with identifying this? Mum and dad bought it for me years ago but the power side of things seems to have gone missing, mum seems to think it was Hornby. 
 

I'm hoping to be able to get it working but have no idea what I need to get for it. I’m assuming this small bit of track is a power track?

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Dagworth]

With the capacitor* on the track connection it has to be DC so I would expect just about any 12volt DC controller will work for it.

 

It's definitely not Hornby though. Does it have a make under either of the locos?

 

*The square grey component

 

Andi

[Cwmtwrch]

The stock is all German, mostly in 1950s/1960s liveries at a guess, although the electric loco may be earlier and the brown wagon seems to be in pre-WW2 markings. Definitely not Hornby. Track gauge would be helpful as there is no indication of scale.

[Tomslink]

Thanks both, I can see PIKO Modellbahn under a few of the wagons/carriages. 

I think it’s 00 gauge, track width is 16.5mm. Sorry I don’t know a great deal about model railways as you may be able to tell - I’m more used to operating a full size train! 
 

Would either of you be able to help with what bits I’d need to get it up and running?

 

[Ian Hargrave]

The models would seem to represent DR ( Late East Germany ). So possibly Piko ? 

[andyman7]

I just love the 'its a train set, I think it's Hornby'. I'm sure if the next question had been 'what other make do you think it might be?' the answer might well have been 'are their other people that make train sets?'

 

It's very much a 1970s/80s era H0 train set, not Marklin, it doesn't look like Trix or Fleischmann, maybe Lima? Mehano? Piko?

[Tomslink]

38 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

I just love the 'its a train set, I think it's Hornby'. I'm sure if the next question had been 'what other make do you think it might be?' the answer might well have been 'are their other people that make train sets?'

 

It's very much a 1970s/80s era H0 train set, not Marklin, it doesn't look like Trix or Fleischmann, maybe Lima? Mehano? Piko?

As I said, my parents bought it for me when I was young. I’m sure they didn’t research all the different manufacturers and for anybody not in the know, Hornby is a well known name so easy to assume it might have been that. Especially after nearly 30 years. 

[Cwmtwrch]

PIKO are a [formerly East] German firm, and the track gauge indicates that the stock is HO, which is 1:87 scale, so slightly smaller than OO [1:76] but uses the same track gauge. The problem here is that PIKO make both DC and AC motored locos. They do have a website [in English] at https://www.piko-shop.de/en/warengruppe/h0-scale-20.html, and Gaugemaster https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/model-railways/piko-brand5.html sell their trains in the UK [there may be others , I don't know], either of which will give you an indication of their power supply equipment. As for finding out whether the locos are AC or DC, I don't know. If you aren't sure, and you have a local model railway club they may be willing to help.

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, Tomslink said:

As I said, my parents bought it for me when I was young. I’m sure they didn’t research all the different manufacturers and for anybody not in the know, Hornby is a well known name so easy to assume it might have been that. Especially after nearly 30 years. 

Of course, it genuinely just made me smile, reminding me of my own family 🙂

[andyman7]

14 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

PIKO are a [formerly East] German firm, and the track gauge indicates that the stock is HO, which is 1:87 scale, so slightly smaller than OO [1:76] but uses the same track gauge. The problem here is that PIKO make both DC and AC motored locos. They do have a website [in English] at https://www.piko-shop.de/en/warengruppe/h0-scale-20.html, and Gaugemaster https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/model-railways/piko-brand5.html sell their trains in the UK [there may be others , I don't know], either of which will give you an indication of their power supply equipment. As for finding out whether the locos are AC or DC, I don't know. If you aren't sure, and you have a local model railway club they may be willing to help.

Piko AC models are centre stud contact for use with Marklin. The train set is definitely going to be 2 rail 12v DC. I'm very much inclined to think it's Piko.

[Tomslink]

Thabks

15 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

PIKO are a [formerly East] German firm, and the track gauge indicates that the stock is HO, which is 1:87 scale, so slightly smaller than OO [1:76] but uses the same track gauge. The problem here is that PIKO make both DC and AC motored locos. They do have a website [in English] at https://www.piko-shop.de/en/warengruppe/h0-scale-20.html, and Gaugemaster https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/model-railways/piko-brand5.html sell their trains in the UK [there may be others , I don't know], either of which will give you an indication of their power supply equipment. As for finding out whether the locos are AC or DC, I don't know. If you aren't sure, and you have a local model railway club they may be willing to help.

Wow, I didn’t realise it was quite as technical as it is! ‘Playing’ with real trains seems a lot simpler 😂 especially being dual voltage! I do have a colleague with a good size set at his house, maybe I need to try and give it a whirl on his. 

[MattR]

Here's the same set on eBay. It's PIKO.

 

https://www.ebay.at/itm/175764706815

Edited February 12 by MattR

[Tomslink]

5 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Of course, it genuinely just made me smile, reminding me of my own family 🙂

Apologies, I think I took your first post slightly the wrong way. 

 

2 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Piko AC models are centre stud contact for use with Marklin. The train set is definitely going to be 2 rail 12v DC. I'm very much inclined to think it's Piko.

There’s definitely no studs underneath, I can only assume it’s PIKO based on the carriages and a couple of the wagons. Now I know of course that PIKO is another manufacturer. 

[MartinRS]

I think from the above comments and the Ebay link it's been established that this is a Piko train set. Here are some things you might want to consider if you are going to get it up and running.

 

You will obviously need a controller. As your models are quite old it should be a DC type (not the more modern DCC type). I don't have any experience of using Piko locomotives though I have had experience of using older models of motive power. Some older models would only work with fully rectified DC, rather than half-wave DC. I mention this because some modern DC controllers don't provide DC power as such, they supply the track with pulsed DC which is similar to half-wave DC. If you are going to buy a DC controller I would take the locomotives to a shop and buy one in person after the shop has demonstrated that the controller you have chosen does in fact work with your locos. Most model shops have a short length of test track.

 

If you want to extend your train set and buy some more track you need to ensure it is suitable for use with your rolling stock wheels and (optionally) can be made to join with your existing track. I suggest the requirements for connecting your existing track to modern track as being optional because one alternative is to just to ignore your old track and buy some suitable replacement track. You might have problems connecting you existing track to what is commercially available in the UK. Why do I mention the suitability of track? Your rolling stock looks to be quite old and could have deep flanges on the wheels. (You might see these wheels referred to as pizza-cutter wheels sometimes here on RmWeb). Track is usually referenced by its 'code', e.g. code 75 or code 100. The number is just the distance between the top of the rail and the sleepers in 1/1000s of an inch. I would guess that the wheels on your equipment probably need code 100 track.

 

I have not seen the type of couplings on your models before though I don't model Continental railways. If you are going to buy any rolling stock you need to couple it to your existing wagons and coaches. Modern rolling stock usually has couplings which fit into NEM pockets. This is just a standard which makes it relatively easy to change from one manufacturer's type of coupling to another's. (Your rolling stock almost certainly pre-dates the adoption of of the NEM coupling standard). One trick is to buy a wagon with NEM couplings and fit a Piko coupling to one NEM pocket and your preferred coupling to the NEM coupling at the other end of the wagon if you want to buy something not equipped with the Piko type coupling. Another alternative is to buy wagons  and convert them to the Piko type coupling.

 

The German Railways forum here on RmWeb might be the best place to ask about the above issues as contributors there are more likely to have experience and knowledge about this manufacturer's equipment.

I hope you get yor trains running soon. Enjoy!

Edited February 23 by MartinRS
typo 1/1000

[The Johnster]

To establish if the loco is working, give it a bit of a clean up especially the wheels and pickups (that carry power from the wheels to the motor), and clean the tops of the rails as well, put the loco on the track, and put a 9v battery, the sort with stud connectors, across the rails.  The loco should try to move, but if the battery gets hot there's a short circuit somewhere.

 

The mechanism may need cleaning up a bit and lubrication with a light non-mineral maching oil that won't attack plastic.  Motor bearings, gears, axle bearings, using the minimum possible amount, too much will attract crud.  The loco should now try a bit harder to move, and once it's running, will free up quite quickly.  There'll be a bit of a burning smell to begin with as half-a-century or more of dust is disposed of, but don't worry unless you can smell burning plastic, in which case STOP.  To test it in the other direction, turn the battery around, reversing the polarity of the power from the track.  Don't worry if it's a bit noisy, they were in those day...

 

My other half is Polish, and had a Piko train set as a child which she remembers fondly.  The models are pretty basic, but robust and reliable. 

 

10 hours ago, Tomslink said:

Wow, I didn’t realise it was quite as technical as it is!

 

It's not, really; if you drive big trains you need to know a lot more stuff!  A lot to absorb at the beginning, though, most of which you don't have to worry about too much yet while the main job is to get the loco running and have fun watching it going round and round, so you can take your time with the research; MartinRS has given you some good pointers.  Your set is H0 gauge, 1:87 scale, running on a 12v DC 2-rail system which is the standard for most H0 products and 00 British ones.  You will need a proper controller after the 9v battery tests, which will either be a 'power controller', with a transformer/rectifier and controller with either a knob and a direction switch or a knob with a 'centre-off' position, or just the controller part, which will need a transformer/rectifier to step down the mains current from 240v and rectify AC to DC.  I recomment Gaugemaster; reasonably priced, bombproof reliable, and lifetime replacement guaranteed, no connection satisfied customer.

 

Be careful if there is a transformer included in the set, check the condition of the mains cable and the plug on any mains equipment dating from the 60s or 70s, and if in doubt have it seen by someone who knows what they are doing.  Probably best to buy new equipment that you know is safe.

Edited February 13 by The Johnster

[kevinlms]

1 minute ago, The Johnster said:

 

Be careful if there is a transformer included in the set, as it will probably be set up for the 120v AC supply found on the Continent; plugging it in here is NOT recommended!.  In any case, check the condition of the mains cable and the plug on any mains equipment dating from the 60s or 70s, and if in doubt have it seen by someone who knows what they are doing.  Probably best to buy new equipment that you know is safe.

This is incorrect, most of the power grid on Continental Europe is of 220/240 volts.

 

110 Volts or thereabouts is primarily for US original build power grids.

 

Here's a map.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country#/media/File:World_Map_of_Mains_Voltages_and_Frequencies,_Detailed.svg

[The Johnster]

Post amended, Tx Kevin.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Post amended, Tx Kevin.

Except you haven't!!!!!!

 

😁

[Andy Hayter]

8 hours ago, MartinRS said:

 

 

I have not seen the type of couplings on your models before though I don't model Continental railways. If you are going to buy any rolling stock you need to couple it to your existing wagons and coaches. Modern rolling stock usually has couplings which fit into NEM pockets. This is just a standard which makes it relatively easy to change from one manufacturer's type of coupling to another's. (Your rolling stock almost certainly pre-dates the adoption og of the NEM coupling standard). One trick is to buy a wagon with NEM couplings and fit a Piko coupling to one NEM pocket and your preferred coupling to the NEM coupling at the other end of the wagon if you want to buy something not equipped with the Piko type coupling. Another alternative is to buy wagons  and convert them to the Piko type coupling.

 

 

On the issue of couplings, these are standard continental couplings.   There are more modern "close couplings" but most stock that you buy from continental manufacturers (and there are very many  manufacturers) will have compatible couplings.  Note however, these couplings are not really compatible with couplings used on models from UK manufacturers.   You might be able to couple them together but there is a good chance that they won't work well and may separate as your trains run or even cause the stock to fall off the track.  

 

It does all sound a bit complicated but it really isn't once you become familiar with a few basics.  

1.  The set is continental H0.  The track is the same as UK 00 unless you want to start getting very technical.   You can therefore buy new/extra track from companies such as PECO or Hornby.  You may have to do some juggling where these tracks meet up with your existing Piko track.  If you have problems just post here and we can collectively help.

2.  It is a 12/14 Volt DC powered set.  You will need a controller that provides that feed and the idea above to try and get to a shop and test one of your locos is very good advice.

3.  Your set will be compatible with most other continental models.  The exception is those models made to run on 16 Volts AC.  This is predominantly models made by Märklin, although other makes have made models to be compatible with that system.   Stay clear of models that say they are "3 rail", "16V AC" , "stud contact" or Märklin. 

 

 

[Tomslink]

Thanks for all the help guys, I’ll have to try and get to a shop to test they work firstly and then get what’s needed. 
 

Johnster, there’s not a huge amount involved with the stock I drive, more akin to a modern car, faults come up on the screen and we’re guided by our fleet as to how to deal with them. The rules however, that’s a different story 😰

[5050]

Where are you in the UK?  I'm sure someone would be able to point you in the right direction for a local club or dealer.  Model railways aren't all that complicated.  If they were I wouldn't be involved............................🙄

[Tomslink]

I’m in Bedford 😁

[Matt C]

You said you had a colleague  who has an extensive setup ? If they live near you then I would start there. They will almost certainly have enough knowledge/ skills to get your set, up and running. They may even have a spare controller  or five kicking about ( yes many of us do tend to keep far more 'stuff' than we need ! )  You never know it could be the start of a mutual interest friendship 😃

 

WARNING !!! model railways can be addictive.  . . Leading to excessive expenditure ( so SWMBO says), Hoarding and many many hours lost tinkering

 

Enjoy !!!

Edited February 17 by Matt C
Typos

[Tomslink]

2 hours ago, Matt C said:

You said you had a colleague  who has an extensive setup ? If they live near you then I would start there. They will almost certainly have enough knowledge/ skills to get your set, up and running. They may even have a spare controller  or five kicking about ( yes many of us do tend to keep far more 'stuff' than we need ! )  You never know it could be the start of a mutual interest friendship 😃

 

WARNING !!! model railways can be addictive.  . . Leading to excessive expenditure ( so SWMBO says), Hoarding and many many hours lost tinkering

 

Enjoy !!!

Yeah I’ll have to see if I can pop over and see him, he’s got a nice set up in his loft he’s sent me a pic of! Got himself a little loop in his garden as well! 

😂 well I’m sure the wife is glad that there’s no room for me to have much more of a setup than the old set I’ve got! 

[TangoOscarMike]

On 13/02/2024 at 05:26, kevinlms said:

This is incorrect, most of the power grid on Continental Europe is of 220/240 volts.

 

110 Volts or thereabouts is primarily for US original build power grids.

 

I can confirm. Here in Germany I have Hornby OO trains on Fleischmann HO track, with a Gaugemaster controller plugged into the mains in the normal way.

 

Whereas a colleague of mine once killed a computer that had been shipped from America by plugging it straight into the mains without flipping the power supply switch on the back.