Peterborough North

[great northern]

Sorry guys, I can't seem to get my hand into the cab to shift the regulator.

[jwealleans]

In that case, Gilbert, try moving the tea billy first. But mind you don't dislodge the opening cap....

[great northern]

I've had a busy couple of days, and some very august visitors, even though it is October. On Tuesday everything (almost) ran beautifully, but yesterday alas it didn't   You wouldn't have thought it was the same railway. Just one of life's little mysteries I suppose. Nearly all of the derailments/refusals to move etc were rapidly diagnosed and put right by the Stoke Summit crew, and in particular Tony Wright, making  a very welcome reappearance. My problem is twofold. Firstly I have never been a member of a club that has had an operating layout or layouts, and  I have never operated an exhibition layout. The result is that what is second nature to people who have that experience isn't for me. The second is that I am fairly(unfairly?) ham fisted, so the fixes that Tony did so quickly and kindly demonstrated to me just filled me with dread that I would apply too much force and wreck something if I tried it. Oh well.....

[Mallard60022]

Sorry guys, I can't seem to get my hand into the cab to shift the regulator.

Not the reg guv, it's the gear thingy he was on about; that wheely thingy just in front of you. Or in the case of your C12 a bl**dy great lever I suspect and I also suspect that was a real bu**er to keep heaving back and forth during shunting! How do I know these things? Don't ask

P

[westerner]

I gather That drivers preferred levers when shunting rather than the screw reversing gear. Much quicker.

[Mallard60022]

I gather That drivers preferred levers when shunting rather than the screw reversing gear. Much quicker.

That's probably why shunting loco's generally had levers I suppose? Don't know about bigger machines on, for example, pick up freights. That would not have involved loads of shunting though. Tough blokes those footplate boys in steam days.

P 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

yep, not the regulator, the reverser.  It looks wrong when the radius rod is at mid-point on the expansion link and the locomotive is moving... honestly, I never used to notice this sort of stuff until I came on here

[coachmann]

Blimey, someone will notice the blocks aren't touching the wheels when grinding to a halt next, or no sparks either..... Steam sanders next...especially needed on V2's and Pacifics from what I saw...

Edited October 17, 2013 by coachmann

[Mallard60022]

Actually Coach you are probably right, however I was always very impressed at the sure footedness of the A4s when departing Kings Cross as compared to the Bulleids departing Waterloo. Sadly I witnessed very few of these departures.......

P

[coachmann]

Actually Coach you are probably right, however I was always very impressed at the sure footedness of the A4s when departing Kings Cross as compared to the Bulleids departing Waterloo. Sadly I witnessed very few of these departures.......

P

A Bulleid would slip in a desert Mallard. I agree the A4's did seem to make a better job of starting than other Pacifics, including the Duchesses.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Blimey, someone will notice the blocks aren't touching the wheels when grinding to a halt next, or no sparks either..... Steam sanders next...especially needed on V2's and Pacifics from what I saw...

 

It's not my fault, its the quality of the pictures on here. Now, if you'd all go back to taking the sort of images I grew up with in the Railway Modeller of the 1970s I would be pleased enough if I could see if it had the right number of wheels....

 

[The Stationmaster]

That's probably why shunting loco's generally had levers I suppose? Don't know about bigger machines on, for example, pick up freights. That would not have involved loads of shunting though. Tough blokes those footplate boys in steam days.

P 

You should try a BR Standard - 'orrible reversers on them if you were just chuffing up & down a bit (Mrs Stationmaster wasn't at all keen on 'that mangle wheel thing' when I gave her some driving lessons on 'Evening Star' on a siding a good many years ago)>

[coachmann]

Its the digital cameras fault Gerbil. These days we work from the standpoint of taking photos from track level. There is a knock-on effect and all of a sudden that painted embankment doesn't look realistic, nor does the track plus a whole multitude of other things. I eventually realised that no matter what I did to my layout, Peco would always let my layout down once a digital camera was let loose on it. 

Edited October 17, 2013 by coachmann

[great northern]

Not the reg guv, it's the gear thingy he was on about; that wheely thingy just in front of you. Or in the case of your C12 a bl**dy great lever I suspect and I also suspect that was a real bu**er to keep heaving back and forth during shunting! How do I know these things? Don't ask

P

Nope, can't reach that either.

[westerner]

Someone once told me that they had to re-lay track fairly regularly at KX because of the slipping of A4's

[great northern]

A Bulleid would slip in a desert Mallard. I agree the A4's did seem to make a better job of starting than other Pacifics, including the Duchesses.

All of the ECML Pacifics could slip though, it used to terrify me when I was about 11. Sometimes you felt that the loco was going to disintegrate, so violently was it shaking. I didn't get to York very often, but I understand Northbound departures on the curve could take several minutes to get going. Much of course depended on how heavy handed the driver was.

[BR(W)]

Didn't an A4 once slip to a standstill in Gasworks Tunnel, with the train then dragging the struggling, and increasingly desperate, engine and crew back into the station, building speed all the time until it smashed into the platforms with tragic consequences?

 

And don't get me going on the Bulleid light pacifics - in fact, anything Bulleid. The TRPS trip of September 1963 springs to mind when 34064 slipped to a standstill approaching Shrewsbury and had to be rescued by (appropriately) a Mickey Mouse tank, station pilot 41209. The same engine then slipped to another standstill on the return journey near Wellington, taking over twenty minutes to get going again. Bulleid should really have stuck to designing patent clothes-hangers (Bulleid-Newsome) in my opinion.

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

[Clive Mortimore]

Didn't an A4 once slip to a standstill in Gasworks Tunnel, with the train then dragging the struggling, and increasingly desperate, engine and crew back into the station, building speed all the time until it smashed into the platforms with tragic consequences?

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

Hi BR(W)

 

The line out of Kings Cross is on a falling gradient into Gas Works Tunnel then climbs out of the tunnel towards Copenhagen Tunnel. So for the train to pull the loco backwards into the station it would have to go up hill.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Clive Mortimore

[The Stationmaster]

Didn't an A4 once slip to a standstill in Gasworks Tunnel, with the train then dragging the struggling, and increasingly desperate, engine and crew back into the station, building speed all the time until it smashed into the platforms with tragic consequences?

 

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

The Kings Cross collision occurred on 4th February 1945 and involved the 18.00 KX - Leeds consisting of 17 vehicles hauled by 2512 Silver Fox.  Unusually the train was not banked out of the station as the stock had been propelled in and the train came to a stand on the rising gradient in Gasworks Tunnel and then began slipping backwards (the tunnel was quite notorious for Drivers not knowing which way their train was going, or even if it was moving, if it was overpowered on the rising bank hence the later addition of marker lights to assist them in recognising what was happening).

 

The road had been reset behind the train and it slid back into Platform 10 which was occupied by the stock for the 19.10 KX - Aberdeen and although the Signalman tried to move the points to avert a collision they moved between the bogies of the rear coach of the Leeds train which caused it to try to go two different ways and it still hit the leading coach of the 19.10.  The collision forced the BCK on the rear of the 18.00 to rise and demolish a signal gantry which in turn crushed part of the coach killing two passengers in it; a further 25 passengers suffered shock and minor injuries with two of them detained overnight in hospital, one member of train staff was injured and off work for some time.

 

Although the unassisted limit at the time for an A4 was 15 vehicles trials after the collision found that a good Driver could get a train of 18 away with some slipping provided he handled the train correctly, the Driver of the train involved in the collision was criticised my Major Wilson for his poor handling of the engine.  The tunnel lights, at 50 yard intervals, were installed as a result of the incident.

Edited October 17, 2013 by The Stationmaster

[BR(W)]

Hello, Clive, and with apologies to GN.

 

The track falls at 1 in 100 until about 50 yards into the tunnel where it ducks under the Regent's Canal. It then climbs at about 1 in 100 for well over a mile. Incidentally, one of the passengers killed that Sunday in February 1945 was Cecil Kimber who had been the Managing Director of MG cars from just after their 1929 move to Abingdon until 1941.

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

[Brass0four]

Peter Leyland came over yesterday for another session, but whilst some produce immediate and obvious results, this time it was more a case of significant but not very discernable progress. A few shots follow which do show what got done, though you need to be fairly sharp eyed to spot things. The featured train today is the 7.43 am Sunderland - KX, which produces one of the rarer daily visitors, as it is a Heaton turn. That isn't much good to the spotters though if Heaton keep rostering the same loco every day.

88 1 cloudy.jpg

 

It's Book Law again. Two of yesterday's additions feature in this shot.

88 2.jpg

 

But only one in this one. I'm using some plain skies while others have clouds, as I'm still wanting to find out which people prefer, and why.

 

88 3.jpg

 

No additions in this one, but again I'm struck by how handsome A3's look from any angle.

 

88 4.jpg

 

One addition on this shot..

 

88 5 from well amd with sky.jpg

 

There being little glare today, here is another attempt at an against the light shot, and with one prominent addition.

 

88 7.jpg

 

Book Law at rest, relieving engine in the bay, another new bit of scenery, and a repaired water crane, which can now dispense water again.

 

88 8.jpg

 

I do like the occasional big close up.

 

504 and 88 1.jpg

 

Mons Meg has now backed on, and Book Law is just coming into shot, having crossed to the Down Main to get to New England shed. One addition to be seen, but it isn't the bit of wood I used to steady the camera, and forgot to crop.

 

504 and 88 2.jpg

 

And there she is. Plus prominent addition.

 

504 and 88 3.jpg

 

One more from a slightly different angle, and for some reason the sky doesn't seem right on this one to me, but at least there is no piece of wood.

 

Are the brick-courses beneath the platform edges new additions? (apologies if I've missed a previous mention)

 

Tony.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hello, Clive, and with apologies to GN.

 

The track falls at 1 in 100 until about 50 yards into the tunnel where it ducks under the Regent's Canal. It then climbs at about 1 in 100 for well over a mile. Incidentally, one of the passengers killed that Sunday in February 1945 was Cecil Kimber who had been the Managing Director of MG cars from just after their 1929 move to Abingdon until 1941.

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

Hi BR(W) and Mike (Stationmaster)

 

Thanks for clearing this up. I was aware of the incident where the signal gantry was knocked down. I always thought the driver had backed the train out of the tunnel to have another go. I must have read someone else’s speculation and remembered that as what happened.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

Ah, Kings Cross, in pre light in the tunnel days, crews used to hang a shovel out of the cab,and scrape it along the sides of the tunnel to find out which way they were travelling, even in diesel days I've been sent to the back cab on a Deltic to see if the signal was off, and more than once, we couldn't see the enterance of Gasworks tunnel as the fumes were so thick, the worst bit was if you were shunted into the tunnel and had to wait for an express to depart, before you could back into the milk yard.

 

The only spot in KX, that would really make a loco slip was, when you came up from Moorgate, if it was raining or frosty, you could take so long getting going, the signalman could  (and did) put the road back in your face, and that was with a Class 31.

 

manna

[Mallard60022]

Excellent facts chaps; Staionmaster you seem to know everything. I bow to your huge library of facts - absolutely amazing so thanks.

Manna, I can remember when I first went to the Cross (1960 I think) for a short visit (London trip from  Plymouth you see!) being puzzled about where the N tanks and twins/ quads used to go and how they then reappeared!!! The Cross was a superb place back then (as were so many of the London Stations - well maybe not Broad Street!), well as were any really big stations anywhere really.
I still think that anyone that can reproduce the chimney exhaust of a steam loco in 4mm (especially the volcanic slip) will make a small fortune. However they will get moaned at because the exhaust is not the correct mix/shade/ consistency/number of blasts etc. Then there is the cocks* clearance on starting..................(will cylinder drain cocks* pass the censor?) *seemingly yes.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Mallard60022

[great northern]

Many thanks Stationmaster for the full explanation, which shows that the accident was very much a one off occurence. Sir Nigel designed a locomotive for the purpose of hauling light trains at high speeds, some could argue he was 50 or more years ahead of the times, and I'm sure he never envisaged the A4's tackling the huge loads that wartime demanded. As so often, a combination of circumstances contributed to tragedy - if the signalman had not reset the points so quickly, or if he had been able to reset them just a bit quicker the worst that would have happened would be a collision with the buffer stops. Even in the circumstances that did obtain, it was the signal gantry in the wrong place at the wrong time that caused the fatalities.