Trees alongside the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway

[Dungrange]

Are there any tree experts, who can tell me what would have been the most common types of tree along the line of the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway around a century ago?  In particular, I'm interested in the area around Outwell Basin.

 

The caption to the above photograph refers to a line of Poplar trees, on the left of the image, which I think would have formed the tramline boundary (with the tramway itself behind that line of trees).  Unfortunately, these look rather too young to have been around in the early 1920s, so I don't know what would have been there before these were planted.  The photograph below seems to show the same line of trees, but from a different angle.

 

 

Both photographs seem to have been dated 19 April 2009.

 

 

I believe that these trees cross the line of the former tramway, so wouldn't have been around a century ago, but I'm assuming these might be typical of the regions, so what are they?

 

 

Again, I think these are on the line of the tramway (so not around a century ago), but again, what type of trees are these?

[Paul H Vigor]

38 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Are there any tree experts, who can tell me what would have been the most common types of tree along the line of the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway around a century ago?  In particular, I'm interested in the area around Outwell Basin.

 

The caption to the above photograph refers to a line of Poplar trees, on the left of the image, which I think would have formed the tramline boundary (with the tramway itself behind that line of trees).  Unfortunately, these look rather too young to have been around in the early 1920s, so I don't know what would have been there before these were planted.  The photograph below seems to show the same line of trees, but from a different angle.

 

 

Both photographs seem to have been dated 19 April 2009.

 

 

I believe that these trees cross the line of the former tramway, so wouldn't have been around a century ago, but I'm assuming these might be typical of the regions, so what are they?

 

 

Again, I think these are on the line of the tramway (so not around a century ago), but again, what type of trees are these?

Ten years ago I was studying the present day landscape of the Kington (GWR) branch in Herefordshire. The line of the former railway to the east of the Kington station site was marked by a row of mature, broadleaf trees. It appeared that these trees related to the hedges that had flanked the railway, left to their own devices for fifty years!

[Dungrange]

6 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

It appeared that these trees related to the hedges that had flanked the railway, left to their own devices for fifty years!

 

Interestingly, I've found a few black and white photographs from around the 1960s, which don't seem to show much more than a hedge along the line the of the Poplar trees in the first two photographs I linked to.  That is, whatever is planted there doesn't tower over the railway vans sat in front of them, so perhaps these are in effect and overgrown hedge.  Though there are a couple of bigger more mature trees near the entrance to the depot - I just don't know what type they are.

[billbedford]

If it was a hedge planted by the railway it would be mainly quickthorn with a few random other species. Such a hedge would very likely have been laid to form a thick barrier to livestock. The poplars look like they have been planted post railway as a wind break. 

[phil_sutters]

Whether or not you can find any relevant tree info. here, there is a magnificent array of W&U photos on this site. It shows - don't just look at railway sources. I searched for old photos of Upwell.

https://www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1103

[Harlequin]

I'm not sure photos of the sites with their trees today will be much help in identifying the trees that would have been in the same locations 100 years ago. Within that period Dutch Elm disease drastically changed the landscape, of course.

 

("Elm Road" is a strong hint as to the trees found at that location.)

 

In the fourth colour photo in the first post, the trees in question have tree guards around the bases of their trunks so we know those have been intentionally planted and could come from anywhere.

 

Can you post some photos of the actual trees from the period in question (or similar)? Or point us to such photos in @phil_sutters link?

 

Edited February 24 by Harlequin

[Nearholmer]

Oddly enough, I was thinking about a very similar question in respect of the Brill Tramway yesterday, and the tree species that was grown (or allowed to grow) large in hedgerows in that area was the elm, of which there were some real whoppers “back in the day”. They must have been managed in some way, because they seem to have been “every so often” along hedges, so developing a full canopy, rather than in clumps with a restricted canopy, presumably for timber (elm was very valued for damp resistance) and to provide shade for grazing animals.

 

The Brill area has different soil and microclimate from the W&U area, definitely good wood-growing and grazing land, so the above may not transfer, but I think I can see the same pattern in some photos of long, pre-tramway, roadside hedges on the W&U.

 

Nearly all gone now, of course.

 

PS: Doh!! The W&U ran along Elm Road, didn’t it …… so I guess there were elms.

 

Picture commons licensed on Wikipedia. This is really typical of a whopper grown in isolation, just like the sporadic hedgerow trees.

 

Edited February 24 by Nearholmer

[billbedford]

Elms were planted by farmers as a "pension" for their grandsons. The timber was in constant demand, especially for coffins. The fact that these planted trees were all rooted from cuttings meant that they were clones without much genetic variety, which explains why English elms all succumbed to Dutch Elm disease in a relatively short time. 

[RobinofLoxley]

One thing to remember is that managed planting is a recent thing. Those involved in rewilding/reforestation projects have 'discovered' that if you fence an area of land to keep the deer out, the seeds that are present in the soil will germinate and you will soon have a forest. Deer munch the saplings.

 

Open fenland = no deer (they're all in Breckland some distance further east)

 

So left to its own devices, a hedgerow will soon form, comprising dogwood, hawthorn, wild rose, beech, oak, elm. Slower growers like oak tend to get crowded out of hedgerows though.

[Nearholmer]

There is an accidental experiment going on about three hundred yards from our house, where the school was donated a parcel of land big enough for three football pitches, which they then fenced c20 years ago. Well, said land is subject to water logging, and they have the same trouble on the existing pitches, so it hasn’t been developed, just left to it’s own devices, and every proposal to build on it has been successfully opposed.

 

So, now we have an area that has been pretty much undisturbed for c20 years, and the biodiversity and sheer energy of it is amazing. A few small deer do get into it, but only rarely and in passing, so they haven’t eaten the understorey.

 

 

Most of the lower bits of southern England definitely want to be a very mixed forest.

 

But, I’m a bit sceptical about the idea that managed planting is a modern idea - I suppose it depends how many centuries, or possibly millennia, you count as modern, because some degree of management of woodlands and what became hedges goes back possibly as far as the Iron Age in places.

Edited February 24 by Nearholmer

[uax6]

43 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

One thing to remember is that managed planting is a recent thing. Those involved in rewilding/reforestation projects have 'discovered' that if you fence an area of land to keep the deer out, the seeds that are present in the soil will germinate and you will soon have a forest. Deer munch the saplings.

 

Open fenland = no deer (they're all in Breckland some distance further east)

 

So left to its own devices, a hedgerow will soon form, comprising dogwood, hawthorn, wild rose, beech, oak, elm. Slower growers like oak tend to get crowded out of hedgerows though.

 

Don't you believe it.... I live on the fens and we have lots of deer running around (the little ones, those without the pantographs).

 

Andy G

[Fair Oak Junction]

I'm afraid my botanical knowledge is letting me down as I can't identify the trees 😄

[Nearholmer]

I met an impressively big deer while cycling from Cambridge to Ely by way of Wicken Fen. It looked pretty “fenny” round there to me, but it might have ranged out from Thetford Forest, I suppose.

Edited February 24 by Nearholmer

[RobinofLoxley]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

 

Don't you believe it.... I live on the fens and we have lots of deer running around (the little ones, those without the pantographs).

 

Andy G

you mean you don't shoot them any more??

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

One thing to remember is that managed planting is a recent thing.

 

This is not true. Almost all woodland in England had been managed until WW1. When I was younger, we lived next to a remnant of Rockingham Forest. About half of what I played in was coppiced hazel, and the rest mixed hardwoods. One part stands out in my memory, a stand of maybe eight ash trees planted close together, which were straight and seemed much higher than the rest of the canopy. I learned later that they had likely been planted like that for long straight timber such as fence rails. 

[RobinofLoxley]

1 minute ago, billbedford said:

 

This is not true. Almost all woodland in England had been managed until WW1. When I was younger, we lived next to a remnant of Rockingham Forest. About half of what I played in was coppiced hazel, and the rest mixed hardwoods. One part stands out in my memory, a stand of maybe eight ash trees planted close together, which were straight and seemed much higher than the rest of the canopy. I learned later that they had likely been planted like that for long straight timber such as fence rails. 

I'm not disagreeing, but I assumed the question related to lineside. So when a railway ran across an embankment, that was all from placed soil and would be full of seeds. Examples of tree cultivation go right back to the Plantagenet Monarchs planting oaks near the Kent Coast for ships that would be built hundreds of years in the future. But the seedlings were probably dug up from an existing woodland.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

can't identify the trees

Given the the fairly straight, and open lower-trunks, I think they’re either beech or elm, and since I suspect that is Elm Road, I’d wager the latter.

[billbedford]

2 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

So when a railway ran across an embankment, that was all from placed soil and would be full of seeds.

 

But these were managed by firemen throwing shovelfuls of hot clinker down the banks. 

[TravisM]

This might be of some help;

 

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/

 

Then click on identification of trees

Edited February 24 by TravisM
Additional info

[stewartingram]

15 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Are there any tree experts, who can tell me what would have been the most common types of tree along the line of the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway around a century ago?  In particular, I'm interested in the area around Outwell Basin.

 

The caption to the above photograph refers to a line of Poplar trees, on the left of the image, which I think would have formed the tramline boundary (with the tramway itself behind that line of trees).  Unfortunately, these look rather too young to have been around in the early 1920s, so I don't know what would have been there before these were planted.  The photograph below seems to show the same line of trees, but from a different angle.

 

 

Both photographs seem to have been dated 19 April 2009.

 

 

I believe that these trees cross the line of the former tramway, so wouldn't have been around a century ago, but I'm assuming these might be typical of the regions, so what are they?

 

 

Again, I think these are on the line of the tramway (so not around a century ago), but again, what type of trees are these?

That last pic looks like one of the sections where the old canal has been filled in. If so, it must be new growth, possibly natural or possibly some planted.

[uax6]

Its between the piles of the bridge over the canal at Outwell basin. You can see the pile caps at each side of the photo, so these are not original trees!

 

Andy G

[Nearholmer]

Looking at old pictures of Outwell Basin, the only taller trees seem to be at the edge of the churchyard, and even they are below the height of the tower.

[RobinofLoxley]

One other thing, does the route run close to water at any point?  😁 Drains were mostly kept clear but ponds for example mean Alders. 

[cliff park]

 

8 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

One other thing, does the route run close to water at any point?  😁 Drains were mostly kept clear but ponds for example mean Alders. 

......and willows, big weeping willows

[stewartingram]

It ran alongside the canal for much of its length.