Mainline (Palitoy) coaches

[roythebus1]

Rummaging through my drawers (as one does) and boxes of round tuits, I found a couple of Mainline/Palitoy LMS coaches in blood and custard livery. they have corridor connections and individual compartment doors and windows one side, and 3 doors and long windows the other side, both composites. Just wondering how accurate they are as models. They seemed to be good models when I got then in the early 1980s, along with Airfix and Lima Siphon G and Siphon H parcels vans, they also looked good for their era. 

 

I've just updated them a bit with metal wheels, Kean systems close-coupling and Kadee or Roco close-couplings. With the Mainline coaches, I'm wondering how long they lasted in service with BR. Jut remembered, there's also a couple of Mainline GW bow-ended coaches that have had similar clos-coupling treatment. I know thy lasted will into the 1960s as I took pictures of the real thing at Old Oak Common.

[kevinlms]

34 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

Rummaging through my drawers (as one does) and boxes of round tuits, I found a couple of Mainline/Palitoy LMS coaches in blood and custard livery. they have corridor connections and individual compartment doors and windows one side, and 3 doors and long windows the other side, both composites. Just wondering how accurate they are as models. They seemed to be good models when I got then in the early 1980s, along with Airfix and Lima Siphon G and Siphon H parcels vans, they also looked good for their era. 

 

I've just updated them a bit with metal wheels, Kean systems close-coupling and Kadee or Roco close-couplings. With the Mainline coaches, I'm wondering how long they lasted in service with BR. Jut remembered, there's also a couple of Mainline GW bow-ended coaches that have had similar clos-coupling treatment. I know thy lasted will into the 1960s as I took pictures of the real thing at Old Oak Common.

LMS Diag. 1694 I believe. Body shell not too bad, chassis less so.

[Mike Buckner]

I have some Mainline Mk1 coaches - they are among my favourites - except the plastic wheels. What wheelsets did you replace them with?

[andyman7]

40 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

LMS Diag. 1694 I believe. Body shell not too bad, chassis less so.

It's relative of course - compared to warmed over LMS painted Triang or Lima Mk1s these coaches were delectable when they came out. The BR Maroon ones had no smoking and 1st class window labels printed - the first time I have ever seen this on a UK RTR model!

[kevinlms]

16 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

It's relative of course - compared to warmed over LMS painted Triang or Lima Mk1s these coaches were delectable when they came out. The BR Maroon ones had no smoking and 1st class window labels printed - the first time I have ever seen this on a UK RTR model!

I don't disagree, but I was answering the question as to the quality of the models. These LMS Mainline coaches came out in 1977 I believe and they were significantly better than any relabelled Mk1's.

 

The only RTR LMS coaches of the period were the generic corridor coaches, based on Caledonian stock, but used the Tri-ang Hornby Mk1 chassis, with the sides slotting in.

[Wheatley]

The Brake 3rd and Composite modelled by Mainline/Bachmann both lasted until 1962 according to Jenkinson. The all 3rds (not modelled) lasted a bit longer (1964). 

 

The bodies are more or less spot on in terms of dimensional accuracy, but the detail is moulded on rather than separate handrails, corridor connections etc. The chassis are of their time and benefit from replacement vacuum cylinders, dynamos, buffers etc, Comet (from Wizard/51L) do all those and an etch to add some of the missing trussing. 

[Butler Henderson]

Those Mainline coaches were later sold by Replica and Bachmann albeit not in that cream and crimson livery and today are used as Gordons coaches in the Thomas range

[roythebus1]

thanks for that info, so they would have run in BR maroon as well? I replaced the wheels with Hornby 14mm metal wheels and fitted the Kean close coupling system. I presume the buffers are too small, they just don't look right and the corridor connections are too short. they look ok though. I'm getting too od to worry about a few bits of underframe missing or not being quite right. I do like close coupling though, seeing main line trains with a scale 6' gap between coaches doesn't look right. It doesn't take much effort to get them close coupled.

[teeinox]

 

In their last years the prototypes were to be found on SouthWest – Northwest summer timetable trains.  I have a picture of a Third Open in July 1960 at Exeter in a Kingswear – Liverpool train, being hauled by D809 Champion.  And of D844 Spartan in 1961 hauling a train of ex-LMS stock, composed of all three periods, the leading vehicle of which is the Brake Third of the Mainline model.  Both were in lined maroon.

 

The lining on the early Mainline maroon versions could be a bit crude – their later ones and those by Replica and Bachmann were better in that respect.

 

I don’t have these models (have been tempted), but have some of Mainline’s Collett “Sunshine” coaches from the same era.  Like you, I do not like 6’ gaps between coaches, so they were converted to close coupling to get rid of the gap and to provide an NEM socket.  I used spare Hornby drawbars meant for their Pullman coaches.  Hornby or Bachmann 14mm metal coach wheels got installed, too.  For the Keen coupling system, did you have to cut into the underframe to get enough clearance over the wheels?

 

teeinox

[TheSignalEngineer]

I think these brush up quite well as layout coaches with a few mods.The Replica and Bachmann versions had the benefit of separately fitted roof vents and gangway connections athough the latter tend to go brittle or out of shape with age, 

They are good donors for cut'n'shut or Comet sides. I built a Brake Composite and all third from them.

 

 

 

LMS Period 1 Brake Composite build.

 

This model was a straight overlay of Comet M4S etched sides on a Replica 57’ Period 1 CK with roof vents repositioned to suit the seating bays and toilets.

 

[roythebus1]

I cant remember if I had to cut the floors, I'll have a look later. I've just done about a dozen various KK conversions recently. My Mainline LMS coaches have separate corridor connections. I'm not happy with the small buffers on them, presumably Comet/Wizard do a replacement for them?

 

I find a Dremel with a cutting disc saves a lot of hard work when fitting the Kean coupler units. with the Kent magnetic couplings I can get very close coupling by careful adjustment of the coupling lengths. But then I don't use curves under 2' radius and try to avoid reverse curves. I really must build a short test track to test these properly.

 

The Kean couple units could do with some modifications in the manufacture, narrowing the baseplate would save a lot of work cutting floors out or filing the units to fit between solebars, and a T shape on the NEM adaptor would save a lot of time finding out that it fouls the wheels on most stock.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I used Comet parts on my conversions.

This is an Airfix 57' underframe as a base during building the version used on the D1746  BTO by Leeds Forge.

 

 

The Leeds Forge underframe had no visible trussing underneath, so the first job was to cut off all detail except for the centre part of the truss which supports the battery boxes. A triangular fillet was added to each end of the support frame at the solebar. These coaches had a box on each side so the regulator was cut off and a spare box from a scrap coach added. Bufers, V-hangers, brake cylinders and dynamo came from Comet.

[Flying Pig]

23 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

The Replica and Bachmann versions had the benefit of separately fitted roof vents and gangway connections athough the latter tend to go brittle or out of shape with age, 

 

Although those are of the suspended type and shouldn't Period 1 stock have the scissors type?  And aren't the moulded gangways on the original Mainline bodies the fixed part of a scissors gangway?

[roythebus1]

On my Mainline coaches the gangways are a clip fit.

 

On the GW super saloons I had to file the Kean NEM adaptor down to a T shape as I've had to do on most conversions otherwise the wheels foul on curves. No need to cut the floor away though.

[TheSignalEngineer]

56 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Although those are of the suspended type and shouldn't Period 1 stock have the scissors type?  And aren't the moulded gangways on the original Mainline bodies the fixed part of a scissors gangway?

Correct.  The use of suspended gangways on the LMS started with the Stanier era. They had been used on the GWR from c1925.

I'm not sure what bit the Mainline ones actually represent. They look a bit like  something from old Triang stable.

 

The Replica and Bachmann ones came with the same type as the Airfix/Mainline Period 3 coaches. Mine still have the original ones as I can't tell the difference in the middle of the train. I'm  just doing some more P1/P2 stock which is having scissors type and I may modify those on the brake coaches when those are finished, as there are only the Leeds Forge BTO, a Period 1 BCK and two BTKs. One of them is showing some signs of degrading. Besides the Comet scissors ones Ratio did a plastic version with end boards which is now done by Peco as Parkside PA111.

[Clive Mortimore]

My take on the cutting and shutting of the Mainline/Bachmann LMS period 1 corridor stock

 

A BCK Dia 1754. I have some more to do a BCK Dia 1755 which had the first class compartments next to the brake end.

 

A BSK Dia 1758, the four compartment type, the Mainline BSK is a 5 compartment.

 

CK Dia 1751, this differs from the Mainline version in having 4 first class compartments not 3.

 

CK Dia 1752, this was an odd diagram as it had 4 second class compartments, 2 first class 6 seat compartments and 2 first class 3 seat coupe compartments. It followed Midland Railway practice.

 

 

Both my SKs top one shows the corridor side.

 

The LMS did not have a period 1 all door BFK, the Midland Railway did and a couple lasted just into my modelling period.

 

I ha also converted a BSK into one of the ex WW2 ambulance coaches that were rebuilt to BGs.

 

Very versatile coaches. 

[exet1095]

Nice work on those. I see that we both have the same issue with the tiny lavatory compartment. Next time, I will remove the whole side and slide the original third class end down a bit.
 

Paul

 

[roythebus1]

I've just fitted one of the coaches with wizard proper size buffers and corridor connections, it certainly improves the look of them. I'm also doing much the same with a Hornby/Airfix B set. Close couplings, replace buffer beams and fit new buffers. I just don't like the scale 3 foot gap between coaches that tension locks give.

 

The corridor connections on my LMS coaches are moulded on the ends and were carefully cut off with a grinding disc.

 

Edited March 11 by roythebus1