£30 cost of living crisis DCC system

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

Edited to reflect useful feedback in replies.

 

Recently there's been a lot of commentary about how unaffordable model railways have become and often the finger is pointed at how expensive DCC is. 

So I thought it would be fun to see how cheap a OO DCC system can be. 

Here's what I use: 

DCC-EX Command Station 

1x Arduino Mega+Wifi board £10 (Aliexpress) 

1x motor shield £3 (Aliexpress) 

Power supplies £15 (eBay UK, or free if you've got a couple of old phone or laptop chargers)

Running free DCC-EX software 

Train control is via the free Engine Driver smartphone app

Command station can be switched between DCC and DC on the fly via the app

Total £28 delivered 

LocoNet functionality can be added using Hans Tanner Redhat and DCC-Aux shields. 

 

Decoders

New LaisDCC loco decoders are £15 off ebay UK though there have been allegations in some replies below that these are unlicensed copies of TCS decoders. 

Or used Bachmann/Hornby for £10. Hornby R8249 is extremely basic with no motor control adjustment. Hornby R8245 Sapphire is fully featured. 

Lenz Standard+ V2 is £21 new and is fully featured. 

For larger scales MXion Drive-M 4A is £39. Sound can be added via a SUSI module for £42.

Hornby HM7000 Bluetooth sound decoders are £50-60 retail and also include features like auto motor calibration. 

 

What ideas do you have for budget DCC? 

Edited March 9 by NotofthiscenturyTim
Incorporated useful feedback from replies

[GrumpyPenguin]

I would not touch any of the decoders on that list.

[NIK]

Most of what you said plus JMRI (free computer assistance software for model railways)?.

 

Regards

 

Nik

Edited March 5 by NIK

[BoD]

On 04/03/2024 at 17:37, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Recently there's been a lot of commentary about how unaffordable model railways have become and often the finger is pointed at how expensive DCC is. 

So I thought it would be fun to see how cheap a OO DCC system can be. 

Here's what I use: 

DCC-EX Command Station 

1x Arduino Mega+Wifi board £10 (Aliexpress) 

1x motor shield £3 (Aliexpress) 

Power supplies £15 (eBay UK, or free if you've got a couple of old phone or laptop chargers)

Running free DCC-EX software 

Train control is via the free Engine Driver smartphone app

Total £28 delivered 

New LaisDCC loco decoders are £15 off ebay UK. Or used Bachmann/Hornby for £10.

What ideas do you have for budget DCC? 

Not for anyone who wants a ‘plug and play’ system though*
In fact quite the opposite - but ok if you know what you are doing with this gear.

 

 

* is dcc ever plug and play?

 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

16 hours ago, chiefpenguin said:

I would not touch any of the decoders on that list.

Interesting. What's your experience with them been? Can you suggest some budget alternatives? 

I've used them exclusively for years. The Hornby 1Amp Sapphire has even been happily running a small G scale loco. 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

16 hours ago, NIK said:

Most of what you said plus JMRI (free computer assistance software for model railways)?.

 

Regards

 

Nik

Good suggestion. The DCC-EX system is fully compatible with JMRI and can be connected either via USB or WiFi. 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

12 hours ago, BoD said:

Not for anyone who wants a ‘plug and play’ system though*
In fact quite the opposite - but ok if you know what you are doing with this gear.

 

 

* is dcc ever plug and play?

 

Chesterfield Model Making and Miniature Electronics sell DCC-EX Command Stations for £75 for those who want a "plug and play" solution. 

 

Otherwise the secondhand market has some plug and play options.

I picked up a Fleischmann Lok-Boss DCC controller for £10 delivered. It's very basic and will only control 4 locos and trigger Functions 0-9, but still fun for the kids on a small layout especially if the locos have sound. A second Lok-Boss can be connected to it to allow simultaneous control of two locos. 

For a fully-fledged system the Lenz Set90 can be found for around £50, but I find it way more clunky than DCC-EX for programming or functions higher than 9 and controlling any accessories. 

[Rhys]

But how much are you paying for a plug and play system?

(quick note I'm in NZ and have converted local peso to UK money)

I have a Digitrax Zepher with an extra wired throttle which I wanted to extend. However the cost of a second handset was eye watering.

I spent 35 quid (locally) to buy an Arduino with motor shield with the software preloaded. Plugged it into a 15 year old laptop with JMRI loaded. Power supply is out of an old Mac thats at least 30 years old (though modern computer power supplies are just as good). Engine driver app on a couple of old phones (that don't need a sim card) all connected through the home WiFi. plugged it in and it ran first time. not quite plug and play but awfully simple for an "old man uses computer" type like me.

A friend of mine has a self contained system (through an old WiFi router) that has cost him all up 15 quid (using the old electronic stash that we all seem to have now).

There is enough power to run 6 locos at once, and i think it will run 5 handsets (We have run 3 at once)

Also, having the Arduino means that by adding a servo driver board (7.50) I can drive up to 16 points or signals through DCC-Ex with a simple control setup which is easy to program.

Its not for everyone but for someone wanting to run a small layout with a handfull of locos and a couple of friends its christmas.

[GrumpyPenguin]

51 minutes ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Interesting. What's your experience with them been? Can you suggest some budget alternatives? 

I've used them exclusively for years. The Hornby 1Amp Sapphire has even been happily running a small G scale loco. 

Tried a couple of Lais which gave poor motor control on locomotives running well with Lenz Silvers.

Had a bachman branded fail after little use.

A few members of my local club have had various issues with Hornby braded decoders.

 

I keep trying different brands of decoders** but always go back to Lenz, the Silver being my "go to".

 

You should be able to get Lenz Silvers for around twice the price of "cheapies".

 

** Apart from my few factory fitted sound locos I have a few small Zimo decoders in small locomotives.

[Pete the Elaner]

55 minutes ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Interesting. What's your experience with them been? Can you suggest some budget alternatives? 

I've used them exclusively for years. The Hornby 1Amp Sapphire has even been happily running a small G scale loco. 

 

I've not used Lais, but I have used Hornby & Bachmann.

Neither of my Bachmann decoders took any notice of CV3 so instead of a nice, smooth acceleration, they hit the set speed instantly. They decelerated according to CV4 though. They were different types too, but of the same era (c2010), but have done enough to make me distrust Bachmann's re-branded stuff unless I know what it really is. These now control lighting in my DVTs.

 

If you are doing DCC on a budget, then this surely extends to other aspects of the hobby like locos? Older & cheaper locos will have rougher motors which need the better control & tunability offered by better decoders. Zimo's MX600 series seem to work well out of the box & have lots of adjustability.

If you are looking for used decoders, you may well end up with Hornby's original series. I had one of these (in a 'DCC fitted' loco) but it would only work in 1 direction with my Powercab. It went in the most suitable place for it...the bin.

 

4 minutes ago, chiefpenguin said:

 

I keep trying different brands of decoders** but always go back to Lenz, the Silver being my "go to".

 

 

I tries a Lenz silver in 1 loco I had (I think it needed a 6 pin & the shop only had 1 suitable decoder for it). It was a bit jerky at very low speed. A friend of mine swapped his out for a Zimo & was much happier with this.

[dave75]

17 hours ago, NIK said:

Most of what you said plus JMRI (free computer assistance software for model railways)?.

 

Regards

 

Nik

I've gone down this route for a trial shunting plank layout, found it very good , 

 

If you can drive a computer and wire a point motor, it's quite easy , jmri has a few odd features but that's just a learning curve, like where you save your layout diagram and assigning points motors to the layout.

 

I've gone mainly for new locos and midrange decoders so not quite budget. 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

20 minutes ago, Rhys said:

But how much are you paying for a plug and play system?

(quick note I'm in NZ and have converted local peso to UK money)

I have a Digitrax Zepher with an extra wired throttle which I wanted to extend. However the cost of a second handset was eye watering.

I spent 35 quid (locally) to buy an Arduino with motor shield with the software preloaded. Plugged it into a 15 year old laptop with JMRI loaded. Power supply is out of an old Mac thats at least 30 years old (though modern computer power supplies are just as good). Engine driver app on a couple of old phones (that don't need a sim card) all connected through the home WiFi. plugged it in and it ran first time. not quite plug and play but awfully simple for an "old man uses computer" type like me.

A friend of mine has a self contained system (through an old WiFi router) that has cost him all up 15 quid (using the old electronic stash that we all seem to have now).

There is enough power to run 6 locos at once, and i think it will run 5 handsets (We have run 3 at once)

Also, having the Arduino means that by adding a servo driver board (7.50) I can drive up to 16 points or signals through DCC-Ex with a simple control setup which is easy to program.

Its not for everyone but for someone wanting to run a small layout with a handfull of locos and a couple of friends its christmas.

Just in case of interest, it's also possible to add LocoNet connectivity to a DCC-EX command station and use LocoNet throttles and accessories. 

 

If your Digitrax Zephyr can be put into LocoNet slave mode it may be possible to use it as a physical throttle and booster with the DCC-EX Command Station acting as LocoNet master. I've done that with Piko and Uhlenbrock LocoNet throttles. 

 

To add LocoNet connectivity you install a DCC-AUX shield and Redhat shield on top of the motor shield. Both are made by Hans Tanner and sold on his IOTT store. 

https://www.tindie.com/stores/tanner87661/

 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

22 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

If you are doing DCC on a budget, then this surely extends to other aspects of the hobby like locos? Older & cheaper locos will have rougher motors which need the better control & tunability offered by better decoders.

Yes. Secondhand is the way to go though I haven't found that older motors are necessarily poorer quality just that they have different characteristics.

 

For example I have a very basic H0 Fleischmann Anna probably from the 70s with an open frame, straight wound, three pole motor with carbon brushes. It will never have the fine slow speed control of a more modern motor design and it needs more power to get going, but once it's going it runs very smoothly indeed. 

 

I also have various G scale LGB and Piko locos from the 70s to the present day. All have five or seven pole Buehler motors and run beautifully regardless of age. The cheapest ones I have are actually secondhand modern Pikos - a BR 80 tank engine for £50 and a big B'B' BR 218 diesel for £100. Older LGB tends to hold its value better. 

[GrumpyPenguin]

3 hours ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

For example I have a very basic H0 Fleischmann Anna probably from the 70s with an open frame, straight wound, three pole motor with carbon brushes. It will never have the fine slow speed control of a more modern motor design and it needs more power to get going, but once it's going it runs very smoothly indeed.

IIRC the "Black Anna" & it's varients uses an N-Gauge motor.

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

17 minutes ago, chiefpenguin said:

IIRC the "Black Anna" & it's varients uses an N-Gauge motor.

Possibly. The motor is part 4002 or 4003 depending on the generation. I think its slab like shape might make it tricky to fit into an N gauge loco. 

Some decent photos of it in the Anna here. 

http://www.hp-pfeiffer.de/digi_umbau1/dcc/anna_flm/anna_flm.htm

[SR71]

 I have been intending on posting this as it's own thread but it seems to fit in with the general themes here. Apologies to the OP if you feel this is thread drift. I will hide if requested.

 

I only have interest in DCC for the possibility of having stayalive. Hence cheap DCC is quite appealing. Even better if day to day operation can be as near DC as far as interface is concerned. I have built car ignition control modules successfully so nailing things together is ok however designing them is well beyond me!

[melmerby]

9 hours ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Interesting. What's your experience with them been? Can you suggest some budget alternatives? 

Hornby's basic R8249 (and derivatives) is a joke, it's totally lacking in any sort of adjustments and motor control is diabolical.

How they can sell this at it's current price when decent Lenz & Zimos are available at lower prices is beyond me.

Lenz Standard + V2 is available around £20 - £22, so are the basic Zimos. Both have many CV adjustment options.

 

I steer clear of Lais as they are a disreputable company that started by pirating TCS decoders. TCS sued them and won.

If they're prepared to do it once they might still be cribbing other company's intellectual property.

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

14 hours ago, melmerby said:

Hornby's basic R8249 (and derivatives) is a joke, it's totally lacking in any sort of adjustments and motor control is diabolical.

How they can sell this at it's current price when decent Lenz & Zimos are available at lower prices is beyond me.

Lenz Standard + V2 is available around £20 - £22, so are the basic Zimos. Both have many CV adjustment options.

 

I steer clear of Lais as they are a disreputable company that started by pirating TCS decoders. TCS sued them and won.

If they're prepared to do it once they might still be cribbing other company's intellectual property.

Great recommendation that Lenz. Thanks. 

 

The R8249 is pretty limited. I've been using the Hornby R8245 Sapphire which has a wide range of CV adjustments and 1A continuous output. Around £10 secondhand. 

 

Personally I don't have an issue with Lais losing a patent infringement case. Just about every big tech firm has both won and lost similar cases - Apple, Microsoft, Google etc. I don't see it as a sign of being disreputable. 

[GrumpyPenguin]

18 hours ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Possibly. The motor is part 4002 or 4003 depending on the generation. I think its slab like shape might make it tricky to fit into an N gauge loco. 

Some decent photos of it in the Anna here. 

http://www.hp-pfeiffer.de/digi_umbau1/dcc/anna_flm/anna_flm.htm

Could be, but IIRC the Annas had a long single shaft.

[Dungrange]

2 hours ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Personally I don't have an issue with Lais losing a patent infringement case. Just about every big tech firm has both won and lost similar cases - Apple, Microsoft, Google etc. I don't see it as a sign of being disreputable. 

I seem to recall that it was more than patent infringement: more a case of creating a clone and badging it as their own, including copying bugs in the original decoder.

 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

Personally I don't have an issue with Lais losing a patent infringement case. Just about every big tech firm has both won and lost similar cases - Apple, Microsoft, Google etc. I don't see it as a sign of being disreputable. 

It was straighforward pirating, they copied every aspect of the TCS decoders, which is not the same as treading on other's patents.

It's easy when doing development to find you've produced something, that someone else has already patented.

 

Would you consider it OK for someone to bring out an identical in every respect copy of an Apple Mac? or a Tesla 3?

 

[Mike Buckner]

They even left in the same manufacturer ID

[Mike Buckner]

18 hours ago, SR71 said:

better if day to day operation can be as near DC as far as interface is concerned.

 

To simulate the behaviour of multiple locos on the same track, give all your locos the same address, and have the funnels pointing the same way.

 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

It was straighforward pirating, they copied every aspect of the TCS decoders, which is not the same as treading on other's patents.

It's easy when doing development to find you've produced something, that someone else has already patented.

 

Would you consider it OK for someone to bring out an identical in every respect copy of an Apple Mac? or a Tesla 3?

 

If someone did that I imagine they'd get sued. Just like Lais did. And Apple/Tesla would get their redress just like TCS has. 

I don't really see how it affects buying current Lais products if the case has been settled in TCS' favour. 

[DaveArkley]

50 minutes ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

I don't really see how it affects buying current Lais products if the case has been settled in TCS' favour. 

Once a cheat, always a cheat in my book. I won't put my money in the pocket of any company that pulls a stunt like that.

 

YMMV

Cheers

Dave