N Gauge Electrofrogs

[meatloaf]

So im planning a new n scale layout. Ive always used insulfrogs in the past, but thinking of using electrofrogs this time.

 

Ive used them in 00 before so is it the same thing? Do i need to modify the point by adding the link wire as i did in 00? It was fiddly enough in 00, so N might be very tricky.

 

Id be manually changing the points, but would probably use autofrogs or the tam valley frog juicers for the frogs.

 

Another option is the code 55 unifrogs, but id be mixing them with code 80 set track curves

[Nigelcliffe]

How long is your bit of string ?  

 

Out of the box, the N gauge Electrofrog switches the frog polarity using the blades.   There is no wire to attach, no links to add/remove.  This is different to the OO version.  
 

Some people report that the contact from blade to fixed rail isn't reliable.  (There is a correlation with how point motors are installed, painting track, ballast, and ballast glue, but not always the case).   So, they choose to add a wire to the frog, which could be at the frog, or one of the rails away from the frog (ie. next bit of track).    Such a wire needs switching polarity, and the switch needs to happen at the same time as the blades moving (otherwise the blades might move, but the switch follows later and that's a short-circuit).  Devices like Frog-Juicers can achieve this switching at the same time as the blades move. 

 

A smaller group of people go further, and modify the turnout so it has the gaps like the OO version, and electrically the same as the OO version.   This is moderately drastic.    

 

 

 

The Unifrog is a different arrangement.   That has a wire attached to the frog, and the wire needs switching (Frog Juicer will do this, or a switch associated with turnout motor).  Without using the wire, the Unifrog becomes an "insulfrog".   

 

 

 

- Nigel

[meatloaf]

2 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

How long is your bit of string ?  

 

Out of the box, the N gauge Electrofrog switches the frog polarity using the blades.   There is no wire to attach, no links to add/remove.  This is different to the OO version.  
 

Some people report that the contact from blade to fixed rail isn't reliable.  (There is a correlation with how point motors are installed, painting track, ballast, and ballast glue, but not always the case).   So, they choose to add a wire to the frog, which could be at the frog, or one of the rails away from the frog (ie. next bit of track).    Such a wire needs switching polarity, and the switch needs to happen at the same time as the blades moving (otherwise the blades might move, but the switch follows later and that's a short-circuit).  Devices like Frog-Juicers can achieve this switching at the same time as the blades move. 

 

A smaller group of people go further, and modify the turnout so it has the gaps like the OO version, and electrically the same as the OO version.   This is moderately drastic.    

 

 

 

The Unifrog is a different arrangement.   That has a wire attached to the frog, and the wire needs switching (Frog Juicer will do this, or a switch associated with turnout motor).  Without using the wire, the Unifrog becomes an "insulfrog".   

 

 

 

- Nigel

Thank you. 

 

So the electrofrogs can be used straight from the box whilst making use of the insulated joiners and track feeds?

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

Thank you. 

 

So the electrofrogs can be used straight from the box whilst making use of the insulated joiners and track feeds?

Can.

 

But I would not say it's the most reliable method, from past experience the curved points did not always perform as they should when it comes to electrical transmission to the blades. 

 

I power the frog and use Cobalt IP Digitals.

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

I have around 80 Peco N Gauge Electrofrog turnouts on my layout and the only change that I have made electrically is to solder a dropper wire onto the frog, or an adjacent piece of track, so that I am not relying on blade contact to switch polarity.

 

There's absolutely no need to make the changes recommended for OO points because the flangeways on N Gauge points are proportionately much wider than those on OO Gauge points so there is no real risk of wheels causing shorts when running through points.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, jpendle said:

There's absolutely no need to make the changes recommended for OO points because the flangeways on N Gauge points are proportionately much wider than those on OO Gauge points so there is no real risk of wheels causing shorts when running through points.

 

 

Some might say too wide, but that's another story for another day 😀

[AndrueC]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Some might say too wide, but that's another story for another day 😀

I just love the way that an unweighted bogey can't be used to test them. Strangely I thought it was fine on my first layout which used Settrack.

[njee20]

Why can’t it…? I often use Dapol mk3s to check point work as it’s easy to remove the bogies. 

[AndrueC]

12 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Why can’t it…? I often use Dapol mk3s to check point work as it’s easy to remove the bogies. 

All my Streamline code 80 turnouts cause a solitary bogey to derail if not set to straight ahead. A four wheel wagon is fine. The problem seems to be that something as light as a bogey 'picks' the frog V.

 

It doesn't cause any problems when the bogey is attached to a coach nor with any other rolling stock other than occasionally causing my solitary 4-6-2 to derail presumably the front bogey it being light but it happens so rarely that I haven't tried to investigate it.

Edited April 15 by AndrueC

[meatloaf]

ok so i did grab a couple of electrofrogs to have a play with.

 

Set them up as per the pic.

 

Power feeds at the toe end. Insulated joiners on the frogs rails ( the 3 middle rails of the crossover ) and metal joiners on the outer 2 rails

 

Power feeds on the other bits off track so its all live.

 

Controller powers on fine and no shorts whichever way the points are set so i think its all wired correctly.

 

However when i driver loco over them from left to right on the lower point i get a short when the loco hits the part of the point where the blades are hinged. So not the frog or anything. Same in the other direction right to left. But it will cross over onto the top track fine and run over the top point perfectly fine. Is it possible the lower points faulty or am i missing something?

[meatloaf]

I deffo think one of the points are faulty, as ive tried it again with insulated joiners on all rails from the points, so all 6 joiners are plastic. Loco sails thru one point but still shorts on the other point. Swapped them round as well and its always the same point

 

The only thing im doing different here from the 00 ones is i used to modify the oo points by bridging the stock rails and cutting the wire underneath and using frog juicers for the polarity but these n scale points dont have a frog wire fitted

Edited April 18 by meatloaf

[Nigelcliffe]

 

Are the back-to-back dimensions of the loco correct ?     This is crucial !!
 

[meatloaf]

I didnt check but i did try a couple of locos and had the same issue.

 

I ended up getting a few of the code 55 unifrogs and im having no issues with them at all, and happily the connect nicely to code 80 curves