Would A HM6000 work with old Dublo 3 rail

[Taz-Devil]

Hi everyone.  I have inherited a number of vintage Dublo locos etc from my Uncle and need a DC controller compatible with this format.  I will be running a2 track layout with electronic points and other components such as lights and uncoupling .  I was wondering whether anyone has had success runng a HM6000 and HM6010 with 3 rail?

 

cheers. 
 

 

Andrew

[kernowtim]

Any DC controller should work with Dublo 3 rail, the models will probably draw slightly more current than the modern ones, but I haven't used anything newer with my dublo than a H&M ďuette, and a Gaugemaster controller I bought second hand 30 years ago!

[Taz-Devil]

Thanks kernowtim,  that was my assumption, however Hornby tech support wouldn’t suggest using due to Dublo being so old

[spamcan61]

18 hours ago, kernowtim said:

Any DC controller should work with Dublo 3 rail, the models will probably draw slightly more current than the modern ones, but I haven't used anything newer with my dublo than a H&M ďuette, and a Gaugemaster controller I bought second hand 30 years ago!

Agreed, although clearly the working state of the actual Dublo items in question will play a part e.g. are the motor magnets still at reasonable strength. Hornby's website isn't terribly helpful when it comes to HM6000 specs, indeed they describe it as an accessory controller, which is downright wrong?, surely the HM6010 is the accessory controller?

[RAF96]

The 6000 has an output of 1.25amps shared between the 2 channels.

6010 is indeed their acc decoder.

[Brian]

So I assume that's a maximum of 625 milliamp (0.625Amp) per output?

Many Hornby Dublo locos can easily draw that current or more!  

 

In that case, I would avoid the HM6000 for older Hornby Dublo operations! 😵

 

[Taz-Devil]

Hi and thanks for the info.  I am purchasing a re magneftizer from Ronald to beef up the magnet state which may help, Brian. Do you know if th .6 amps is based on the 1amp supplied voltage, i was thinking that id throw 4 amps at the controller to increase

 

cheers

[Brian]

8 hours ago, Taz-Devil said:

Hi and thanks for the info.  I am purchasing a re magneftizer from Ronald to beef up the magnet state which may help, Brian. Do you know if th .6 amps is based on the 1amp supplied voltage, i was thinking that id throw 4 amps at the controller to increase

 

cheers

I don't know if the unit can output 4 Amps? I was basing my response on the post that RAF96 made, saying the combined output was a shared 1.25 Amps.

 

Page 4 of the manual states ...... Controller track output maximum - Continuous current: 1.5A @ 15V DC Note: Controller overall maximum current limit (Track outputs): 1.5A

Link to HM6000 manual

[WIMorrison]

Some electronic items will have current limiting devices included within the design to protect them which means it doesn’t matter how much you throw at them you will never get more out.

 

Others, generally at the cheaper end will take whatever you throw at them and pass it through to the output, however in the process of passing the excess current through the items are wrecked because they were not designed for said, excess input. The extra heat generated can also cause fires.

 

Whether the Hornby item is in the former or latter category I don’t know, however I would assume it is in the latter and only use the recommended power input.

[kevinlms]

If you want a controller with higher ratings, then these appear to a popular suitable range.

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/categories/model-railway-analogue-control/model-railway-analogue-control-controllers.html

[WIMorrison]

I think it is the app that is the attractive concept 😉

[RAF96]

On 09/05/2024 at 09:47, Brian said:

I don't know if the unit can output 4 Amps? I was basing my response on the post that RAF96 made, saying the combined output was a shared 1.25 Amps.

 

Page 4 of the manual states ...... Controller track output maximum - Continuous current: 1.5A @ 15V DC Note: Controller overall maximum current limit (Track outputs): 1.5A

Link to HM6000 manual

Apologies - I was working from memory as I didn't have either a module or the book to hand. 1.5 amps is correct not 1.25.

 I will check if when using the 4 amp PSU each channel output is higher than half.

Edit - if only one channel is being drawn upon it will pull up to 1.5 amps - obviously using a suitably rated PSU, else the channels share the 1.5 amps proportional to load.

Edited May 10 by RAF96

[DCB]

I use a Hornby Dublo controller for Hornby Dublo locos.    Its  12 volt  10 VA     I thought it was 12 volt 1 amp but it's not.   I tend to use a diode controller, Playcraft or home made and the cut out will  ping and reduce power by putting a bulb in series with the output when the loco is overloaded.     I had a brand new Wrenn 08 burn a wire off its commutator running off a 1 amp H&M, that was brand new from a model shop,1st time out.   The modern cheap and nasty Polyswitch over loads tend not to trip soon enough and then keep tripping once activated.  The old H/D auto reset or Triang with a reset button are much kinder to H/D locos which have very thin wires on their commutator. That 10VA rating was for an actual reason.  For old H/D locos  remag or a reasonable Super Neo upgrade helps but excess magnet  power damages the motor bearings by applying side force in my experience.   Maybe use a Triang circuit controller  with a reset button just as a cut out, leave it in circuit set to full power between main controller and the track.

[DCB]

On 10/05/2024 at 09:56, RAF96 said:

Apologies - I was working from memory as I didn't have either a module or the book to hand. 1.5 amps is correct not 1.25.

 I will check if when using the 4 amp PSU each channel output is higher than half.

Edit - if only one channel is being drawn upon it will pull up to 1.5 amps - obviously using a suitably rated PSU, else the channels share the 1.5 amps proportional to load.

Shades of the old Scalextric days where you shut off one car for a corner and the other sped up, or the add  on accessory controller where speeding one train slowed another or you threw a point and the train just about stopped. Basically not a lot of use and 1.25 amps is a lot too much for Hornby Dublo if you want them to last.  I quite happily feed 6 loco Trang Transcon lash ups with 2 X 1 amp controllers which has made fishplates glow.  

I long ago used two scalextric power supplies one per track, aqnd separated my point power and lights power from traction power to dodge the problem.  Trouble is last count 6 controllers and 4 accessory supplies....

[Dagworth]

19 minutes ago, DCB said:

1.25 amps is a lot too much for Hornby Dublo if you want them to last

I’ve said before that you could connect your Dublo loco to a 12volt car battery that can supply in excess of 100 amps and the loco will still only draw the amps it requires. Providing a loco with a power supply that can give more AMPs than it needs will not damage it. Excess VOLTS will damage the motor. 
 

Andi

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, Dagworth said:

I’ve said before that you could connect your Dublo loco to a 12volt car battery that can supply in excess of 100 amps and the loco will still only draw the amps it requires. Providing a loco with a power supply that can give more AMPs than it needs will not damage it. Excess VOLTS will damage the motor. 
 

Andi

But you do have rather a problem if you have a short by a derailment or similar - not that it will effect the motor!