Windsor derailment 11 October 2009

[Edwin_m]

RAIB has just published a report into a minor derailment at Windsor. Most of it is an examination of arcane Network Rail procedures for rectifying (or not) faults in the track, so probably of no interest to 99% of people on here.

 

However I did wonder why on earth a train was being run with such a strange formation. Class 73 leading, then the Hastings DMU, then two more class 73s trailing? Although the report doesn't say so, it's possible a heavier axleload than the usual EMU was what prompted the rotten sleepers to fail.

[The Stationmaster]

Sleepers in that state on curvature is an open invitation for the road to spread, especially if something a bit heavier than usual happens to come along. And while filling in bits of paper obviously has its place wouldn't it have helped if the Patrolman and his boss had the occasional chat about the state of the patch?

[Red Fox]

Just a comment about something in some of the pictures in the report, is it not a tad odd that the third rail is on the platform side of the track? I know it's on a set of points but I thought having the third rail on the platform side was considered unsafe and a big no no?

[Lyddrail]

The report states it was a charter train explaining the formation with the Hastings DEMU.

 

The reason for the 3rd rail on the platform side is due to the points, if the 3rd rail was not in this position the gap would cause problems.

 

Cheers.

[Southernman46]

Sleepers in that state on curvature is an open invitation for the road to spread, especially if something a bit heavier than usual happens to come along. And while filling in bits of paper obviously has its place wouldn't it have helped if the Patrolman and his boss had the occasional chat about the state of the patch?

 

 

 

I know and work with both individuals - and they do. No opinions please.

 

The fact of the matter is that the work was due to be undertaken on the 12th - this was a case of some very professional railwaymen doing a hard job getting it wrong by 2 days.

 

Any adverse comments directed at the staff involved and I'll get the Mods involved right away.

[Edwin_m]

The report states it was a charter train explaining the formation with the Hastings DEMU.

 

Yes, carrying 120 passengers, but why the need for three locomotives attached to something which is self-powered in any case?

[Redkiterail]

well its a mark 1 demu so top and taill class 73 gets around the crash issues plus the power and fuel requirements of the tour.

[The Stationmaster]

Yes, carrying 120 passengers, but why the need for three locomotives attached to something which is self-powered in any case?

 

Was the demu capable of running under its own power I wonder? (not that even that would explain the use of three locos; I would have thought two would be more than ample if the train had been heading off electrified railway and the demu was a tow job?).

 

A bit of digging reveals that the train was a First GBRf charter so presumably that was why they put their locos on it? The demu was working under its own power the week before and not long after so it looks as it it was just a 'promotional' thing for the EDs.

[Southernman46]

Sleepers in that state on curvature is an open invitation for the road to spread, especially if something a bit heavier than usual happens to come along. And while filling in bits of paper obviously has its place wouldn't it have helped if the Patrolman and his boss had the occasional chat about the state of the patch?

 

 

 

I know both individuals personally - and they do frequently. No opinions please

 

 

Any adverse comment within this thread and I'll involve the Mods straight away

[beast66606]

You've already said that Southernman46 - relax

[Xerces Fobe2]

There were 2 derailments at Windsor & Eton Riverside within a 12 month period the other was a Desiro that derailed on the same point and one coach got wedged up against the platform. A friend of mine videoed some of the recovery work which involved a Siemens engineer carefully disconnecting all the cables between derailed coach and the next one and it took several hours to complete this action. A Class 73 was sent from Bournemouth to drag the 8 car formation back to the depot. Why could they not uncouple the London end unit and run it back under its own power or is that that the expertise to perform such an action is not readily available anymore ?

 

SWT chooses to run fixed 8 car formations on the Windsor and Reading lines irrespective of passenger demand as well as running a uniform 2 trains an hour ( Windsor branch) with no extra trains in the peak and the via Hounslow peaks trains have long gone and the times from Windsor 14 and 44 mins past the hour the same times as I remember when I used to go spotting at Clapham Junction circa 1971 - progress?

 

By chance I was at Windsor and Eton Riverside this week and had a look at the point in question and was amazed to see that chairs have fitted to hold the point blade in the straight position - I would guess removal of the run round facility for good will follow in due course.

 

Xerces Fobe

[davep101]

The weird formation was possibly due to it being a railtour, and as well all know on tours anything goes, it was run by the hastings diesel group under the banner 'The Eton Rifles', the thumper can run perfectley well on its own as it has many times before this incident and since, the thumper o its own is quite normal out and about in various formations, but a selling point for the tour would surely have been a thumper topped by three EDs , also the thumper was running as well if u view the youtube clips..i may be wrong but i belive a thumper can run in multiple with an ED even wen the Ed is on electric. ( anyone any gen on that it would be good to know for sure).

[Edwin_m]

Thanks Dave, that explains everything...

[roythebus]

Yep, twas a railtour. From my memory of Windsor, the run round is there for Royal Trains, in the days when one loco was considered enough, and run-rounds wre everywhere.

 

The third rail is on the platform side to TRY to prevent gapping on a 4 car train. I managed it once with a 455 simply by stopping at the S mark, which someone had thoughtfully moved along the platform. the leading shoe was on the rusty bit of ramped juice rail, the last shoe was neatly in the gap by the points! The following train was called in and coupled up and way we went, albeit 30 late!

[davep101]

theres some footage of it arriving on youtube, ....theres also one which shows incident team arriving.

[flyingsignalman]

There were 2 derailments at Windsor & Eton Riverside within a 12 month period the other was a Desiro that derailed on the same point and one coach got wedged up against the platform. A friend of mine videoed some of the recovery work which involved a Siemens engineer carefully disconnecting all the cables between derailed coach and the next one and it took several hours to complete this action. A Class 73 was sent from Bournemouth to drag the 8 car formation back to the depot. Why could they not uncouple the London end unit and run it back under its own power or is that that the expertise to perform such an action is not readily available anymore ?

 

SWT chooses to run fixed 8 car formations on the Windsor and Reading lines irrespective of passenger demand as well as running a uniform 2 trains an hour ( Windsor branch) with no extra trains in the peak and the via Hounslow peaks trains have long gone and the times from Windsor 14 and 44 mins past the hour the same times as I remember when I used to go spotting at Clapham Junction circa 1971 - progress?

 

By chance I was at Windsor and Eton Riverside this week and had a look at the point in question and was amazed to see that chairs have fitted to hold the point blade in the straight position - I would guess removal of the run round facility for good will follow in due course.

 

Xerces Fobe

 

 

I remember a derailment here being mentioned at a recent quarterly safety brief which was caused by detection being lost on the run round crossover points. This may explain the points apparently being secured normal.

[5944]

I was stewarding on this tour, and was in the buffet car when we arrived and came to a rapid halt. As the report says, the train arrived in platform 1, and when it became obvious we weren't going anywhere for a while, service trains were diverted into platform 2.

 

When the incident team arrived, a block was put on platform 2 so they could get down and inspect the train and track in platform 1. The PA and screens then started showing the next train to Waterloo would be leaving from platform 1. I pointed out to one of the platform assistants that it might be a bit difficult, as our train wasn't going anywhere any time soon, and it might cause a bit of a problem trying to bring an 8 car class 450 in behind it! "But control have told us there's a block on platform 2, so all trains are going to have to use platform 1".