RMweb Gold queensquare Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Good to have you back Steve. The control system looks fantastic but you will have to talk me through it slowly next time we get together! As you know, the pointwork on Highbury has been digitaly controlled for years - left or right digits!! Jerry Edited March 9, 2012 by queensquare 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That's the beauty of DCC isn't it? Just two wires. Can it get radio 4? After seeing all that lot I am now contemplating whether live steam or clockwork is the most practical in 2mm scale. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 Very impressive Steve and quite a lot of work must have gone into all that. Regarding the testing I find that pushing one or two wagons through the point using another wagon to push with is a good test i.e if I can push them through with my finger then you should be able to back a train through, and watch for any bumping usually a sign of wheels rising up on the crossing nose. It is a bit of a pain if the cobalts cannot be pushed over by hand. I can remember working one tortoise driven turnout by hand at an exhibition until I could get a moment to sort out the connection. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Thanks Pete - its good to be back. This semi-retirement business has its advantages in that I have been able to crack on with the layout, but at some time I really do need to get a job - its a tough choice 1) play trains, or 2) live? It's not your fault you suffered a 'premature posting', I took so long in typing up the last missive (and regularly using the preview ) that it seems to have taken a partially complete entry brfore I'd finished Jerry, there was more than one occaision when the whole control system nearly got a 'digitus impudicus'!!! The option of parallel switches on the sides of each board became very appealing... Tee hee Natalie even with the 2 wire dcc, there are over 70 droppers on Board 2 alone. Seriously, the back of the control panel looks complex as it uses 56 LEDs, and 39 toggle or push-button switch inputs; these have to wired up in a matrix of rows and columns (on matrix each for the LEDs and switches). The end result is that the CBUS output of this panel comes out as 2 wires which is all that needs to be connected between the board. Thanks for the tip Don, I'd been using the single digit technique previously unlil Mitzi sugested gravity - so obvious really! Since then I raise one end of the board by about 1" - 1.5" (about 1 in 48 to 1 in 32) and watch 'dem wagons roll' (Yee haaa). The wagon only needs a couple of inches to get up some speed and then the Mk1 eyball tracks it for the (hopefully absent) bounce as it passes through the pointwork. Several pinch-points have been found when the wagon slowed down... A bit more on the Control Panel. I was very fortunate that another member of the Oxford group had access to a laser cutter; a simplified line drawing of the layout was produced and etched to produce a representative schematic of the layout - even the holes for LEDs and switches were cut in plastic to make life really easy. Outlines of the major structures (Goods shed, Harris Factory, and the platforms) were marked on the plan to ease visual orientation. The final design incorporated switches and red/green LEds represent future signalin options, and the box in the lower left corner is to cater for the potoential expansion further down the line to include Black Dog Halt - what's wrong with 22'-24' long layout anyway? The way in which the pushbuttons have been placed is to enable a rudimentary form of route selection rather than direct point control; with the exception of the 2 crossovers (which switch between straight or crossing) each of the push-buttons represents a destination ie one of the sidings. For example, to get an arriving train to the Harris Factory, first select the approach crossover to get off the 'main' line into the sidings, then select Siding 4 (south side of the cattle dock) leading to the Harris sidings, and then finally select the route into the factory itself. What happens is that (the cross over being faily self-explantory) when Siding 4 is selected, all of the turnouts downstream (back to the crossover) are set straight up to Siding 4 allowing a clear run. I deliberately split the Harris sidings from the main sidings to enable independant shunting in this area,and to have a (future) gate controlled entrance to the private sidings. Just as a matter of interest, I've included a small section of the CBUS configuration matrix i've been working on to show how each pushbutton input (lefthand column) causes the many point drivers to react... ...simple isn't it As you may note, I have a lot of potential ideas, but not yet got any detailed plans to deliver them... Edited March 9, 2012 by SteveBedding 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 It does look impressive. it is almost a shame not to display the layout upside down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 It does look impressive. it is almost a shame not to display the layout upside down. I had thought about doing away with the skirt and puttling an angled mirror underneath... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted March 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2012 I had thought about doing away with the skirt and puttling an angled mirror underneath... Best be careful if the layout gets any invites to Scottish exhibitions then... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 After seeing all that lot I am now contemplating whether live steam or clockwork is the most practical in 2mm scale. Alternatively follow the example of the digital pioneers in this scale (sort of) - Lone Star Treble O (with their pushalong technique...). David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I like all the ideas and the work that has been put in. Unfortunately I have a two wire brain when it comes to model railway electronics and those wires are analogue. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So when will the Calne layout be ready for the Calne Show? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) So when will the Calne layout be ready for the Calne Show? Geoff Endacott Not before Jan '14 - and even then it'll be a work in progress... ...and probably only as a static diaorama if I don't get on with the rolling stock soon! Edited March 12, 2012 by SteveBedding Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi Steve - Nice to see you back on the forum - I kept checking & was quite concerned that nothing was being added! The wait was obviously worthwhile judging by the comments above. I'll have to wait 'til I get home off 'nights' to see what its all about - the 'next page' button doesn't work here! Regs Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 Only just caught up Steve. That's very nice and neat wiring. The approach taken with the 2ft view works well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 x-x-x-x-x-x NEWSFLASH x-x-x-x-x-x It Lives!!!! Just connected Boards 2 & 3 together for the first time (since the original carpentry...) and just had to have a quick test run... ...the trusty '24 ran over the board joint without a hitch on the mainline - the sidings/runaround needs to be reworked as a rail got bent in storage ) Not much of a picture (I was kneeling backwards over the desk to get as much of a view as possible) and it shows the messy wiring 'hidden' through the hatch into the kitchen But who cares - the layout worked! The points operated right first time and the train ran when told - what more could I ask for? Anyway, still lots of fettling to do (and the control panel LED driver comes back from the electronic hospital tonight) so I'd better get back to it. Back soon with a fuller update... 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Hi Steve - x-x-x-x-x-x NEWSFLASH x-x-x-x-x-x It Lives!!!! Just connected Boards 2 & 3 together for the first time (since the original carpentry...) and just had to have a quick test run... ...the trusty '24 ran over the board joint without a hitch on the mainline - the sidings/runaround needs to be reworked as a rail got bent in storage ) Gives yu a warm fuzzy feeling don't it?? And I now see what all the comment was about! Lovely work - although the comments about 'upskirt' shots might indicate another obsession! Regards Ian Now also working in 2mm...... (see 'box in a Box' in the blogs) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2012 Nice work Steve. Cue for a glass of something? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Thanks to everyone for your continued interest and perseverance with my prolonged absence - things are on a bit of a roll at the moment some significant progress is being achieved Following on from the mid-week 'newsflash' and the euphoria of the first simple test runs, I have throttled back with a more structured approach to the testing. The LED driver for the control panel has returned from the electronic 'hospital', and is now fully functional - somehow I had managed to cook the surface mounted MOSFETs (translated - extremely small fiddley transistor thingys) and this was causing multiple illuminations - in my defence it was 30 years ago I trained in electronics and these weren't arround then! Anyway, the control panel now works as planned and with the PC interface, the MERG CBUS system was surprisingly simple to configure and program. The concept of the panel is to simply push the button for where you want to go, and the various turnouts required to get there will be selected; the yellow LEDs give a visual indication that the point motor has operated as requested. Now with the turnouts operating simply (I'd alluded earlier to the 'problems' with easily testing the Cobalt motors), it was a now a case of running the trusty Class 24 and test wagon (my first {unfinished} 2mm chassis - no body, weight, or couplings ) back and forth over each part of the layout, keeping a beady eye on the performance. Although I'd previously done free-wheeling testing on most of the point-work, a couple of new 'issues' were found in those areas un-tested; one tie-bar operation is 'sticky' in one throw direction - easily fixed?, and there appears to be a significant derailing problem through another - there appears to be a pinching effect which can be seen visually but gauges out correctly ! I was keen to get a coat of paint on the trackwork (to hide my ineptitude) but I'll hold off on this for a while until I can resolve these 2 issues! I'll try and borrow some additional rolling stock to do some more thorough operational testing before accepting the trackwork on these 2 boards - bit of a blow as I wanted to get cracking on with the last board... And finally, although I was previously able to get the loco to run the length of the 'main-line' the track work at the board joint had been re-aligned with a pair of pliers until it worked; this has now been properly fixed. Having taken the picture of the joint, it actually looks quite good! I've been cursing it no end as to the finger test and visual inspection it appears to be a real bodge yet there have been no problems or issues with the running behaviour at a quite a range of speeds? That's all for the moment; be back soon... Edited March 17, 2012 by SteveBedding 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 looking good, look forward to setting it at Calne at some point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) looking good, look forward to setting it at Calne at some point. Sorry double post and delete button not working. Edited March 17, 2012 by Tricky-CRS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Great work Steve - those electronics are way beyond me and in the realms of wizardry! I like the idea of setting routes. Back to the spade and spanner for me I'm afraid...! Nice to see it SB back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted March 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2012 Good progress Steve. Probably best to hold off the paint as you say...and no doubt even when you do paint it, the odd little snag might crop up, but longterm you will be relieved to have waited that little bit longer and crack it....as you did with the baseboard joint. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2012 Good progress Steve. If that is your first run through under power then just two snags with that number of turnouts is pretty good. One suggestion regarding the 'pinching effect' which test ok with the gauges. Pushing the gauges onto the rails can move the rail top a little twisting it in the plastic chairs. This is quite easy to do if you slide the gauge along the rail. Personally I would check with further wagons. If the back to back on the wagon is on the high side and the gauge on the low side all the tolerance may have been used up. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I was keen to get a coat of paint on the trackwork (to hide my ineptitude) but I'll hold off on this for a while until I can resolve these 2 issues! I'll try and borrow some additional rolling stock to do some more thorough operational testing before accepting the trackwork on these 2 boards - bit of a blow as I wanted to get cracking on with the last board... Don't paint until everything is working properly and has been tested thoroughly and you are happy with it, I didn't wait, painted and now have some alignment issues that I'd overlooked and have to scrape paint off to re-solder a joint. ps, do you want to build me some baseboards when I've got space for my next project? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted March 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2012 Steve, hi Next time you have your camera handy, do you mind doing a 'google earth' shot of one of your turnouts? I am curious to see which sleepers you replaced with PCB...there seem to be more than just the frog area. Thanks in advance... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Thanks all for your positive comments, and certainly the need to curb the 'enthusiasm' on painting the track has been noted I certainly wait until I can get my hands on a wider selection of rolling stock before accepting the track as finished; I suspect the history of Calne may require re-writing such that it was operated by the Midland Railway just prior to WWI... ...hope you're watching this Mark Good advice on the back-to-back and guages Don. I think I've identified the pinching on the turnout; there are two very closely sequenced turnouts leading to the milk bays and cattle docks and I had not been able to easily seperate them - in constructing them, I partially tacked the rail in the middle to give the overal geometry and it looks like I'd forgotten to fully set it in the correct position. Anyway, although not 100% confident that its fully right, I may just have cuffed it as the loco doesn't derail now . I think I need to keep a snagging list handy to keep track of all the minor snafus that occur as I progress. Pete, you asked about the use of the copper-clad sleeper? I vaguely remembered wittering on about my thoughts on this pereviously and looking back, I found that I had outlined these here (frightenly, this was over a year ago !!). Anyway, to recap: I've replaced a total of 8 of the plastic sleepers with pcb strips (3 alternate ones under the crossing centered on the knuckle, then 2 where the crossing joins with the blade, one further to support the blade and help form its shape [added since the original thoughts last year], and lastly one either side of the moving tie-bar to make the entry rigid and support the joggles) - see below: Here's the same turnout with the track laid... ... I've found that this method makes the turnout quite robust (much more so that the first 2 I built on the first board where I used far fewer pcb sleepers) and the geometry relies on the soldered joints rather than the easitrac chairs. This so far has been a lot easier to fettle to get right than trying to move the plastic parts and I've left gluing the chairs to be the last task once I've test the turnout. (Oops - Note to self - need to finish the chairs on this turnout ) Although I've done some initial cleaning of the sleepers, this picture shows the nasty state that the working surface has degenerated to. Looking back, I suspect I used too much PVA in fixing the sleepers, and too much solder & flux on the rails and this has made the job of cleaning that much more painful! Now you can see why I'm desperate to paint the track to hide this... Just for interest, the numbers in pencil below the turnout are a reminder to me of which 'chairs' to use when threading them onto the rail before fitting; I'm sure that there are really technical terms/names for the differnt types of chairs, but I like simple and so have called them: 1 - blade chair, 2 - normal chair, and 3 - check rail chair, and these numbers reflect the order from the top that they appear on the easitrac spue (below). Lastly, while SWMBO wasn't looking last night, the centre board did a swift 180, and work has commenced on the track on the last board. First task is to set the sleepers for the turnouts and this is almost done (it would have been completed by now, but Sunday afternoon has been sidetracked indulging in another passion of mine - food - watching the recorded final episodes of Masterchef for some inspiration !) Nice and simple to complete, so no excuse for excessive delays... Back soon, Edited March 18, 2012 by SteveBedding 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now