Dapol Britannia

[Elvinley]

I've done the unthinkable and bought another Britannia from a friend. This one runs better than my last one. I took your advice Al, and removed the keeper plate to lubricate. It is running in right now. The tender is getting warm after a few mins so I am letting it rest after about 10 mins of running.

[Elvinley]

An update on this one. The loco does seem fine this time around. It is quieter after a lot of running in and runs smoothly. This one isn't getting hot either. It seems that there are a lot of problems with this loco judging by other posts apart from mine, but hopefully I got lucky with this one.

[Tom J]

Unbelievably, the fault with my new 'A1' has led me to diagnose a bit better what might be up with this one. The noise seems to be coming from the driveshaft. If I lift the driving wheels off the rails it runs beautifully.

 

So, either the driveshaft itself has slack in it, or there is resistance in the driving wheels which is only manifest when it's on the rails. Dr Al treatment might well be the cure?! I hope so as I am not keen on having to send it away...

[Dr Al]

Tom J - reading your other post on the other thread on QC etc, I think you have the dreaded motor brush problem which is why you're getting speeding and slowing. Maybe also something with the driveshaft - check it's seated correctly in both sockets.

 

Best Regards,

Alan

[Tom J]

Thanks Al - ironically it ran for an hour last night without getting over warm or suffering speed variations! Should the driveshaft be clipped in tight at both ends? I have free movement at the tender end but it doesn't seem to clip home as positively as the front joint. Looking at it cost me

one of the pickup wires!

 

PS - what's the best way to remove nameplates without marking the deflectors?

 

Thanks very much for your help. I have hope this one might not have to go back now!

 

Thanks Al - ironically it ran for an hour last night without getting over warm or suffering speed variations! Should the driveshaft be clipped in tight at both ends? I have free movement at the tender end but it doesn't seem to clip home as positively as the front joint. Looking at it cost me

one of the pickup wires!

 

PS - what's the best way to remove nameplates without marking the deflectors?

 

Thanks very much for your help. I have hope this one might not have to go back now!

[Dr Al]

Thanks Al - ironically it ran for an hour last night without getting over warm or suffering speed variations! Should the driveshaft be clipped in tight at both ends? I have free movement at the tender end but it doesn't seem to clip home as positively as the front joint. Looking at it cost me one of the pickup wires!

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on the motor issue. I thought it had gone from my Britannia only for it to re-appear as badly as ever. I've now replaced the brushes (see other thread) which seems to have helped, but we'll see.

 

If you've kept the parts for the pickup wire it should be repairable by resoldering. I've had two go within minutes of opening the box.

 

PS - what's the best way to remove nameplates without marking the deflectors?

 

It will mark the deflectors - there's no way round this as the plate is larger than the replacement. So more remedial work is needed than a simple swap. I used a thin scalpel blade to carefully lever off the overscale plates, this leaving the superglue attachment residue on the deflector. I smoothed this down with a polyrod sanding stick, and then painted the deflector Humbrol 85 satin black. I then attached the new plate. Doing it this way, there is no evidence of the old plate's existance.

 

I'll upload a pic later of the re-plated loco.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Tom J]

I would still be interested to see a re-plated version; having bought another 'Brit' today at Leamington I am also wondering whether the TPM etched deflectors for the Minitrix 'Brit' could be made to fit, as I am wanting to model 70013 as it is now. Also wondering about fashioning an air pump for 70000, for which the original deflectors are correct. £60 a pop is much more like it, price wise(!), although the one I picked has a slightly damaged tender handrail (some solvent will fix) and is missing the bag of 'bits' and spare traction tyres.

 

This one does seem better out of the box, motor is getting warm after a couple of hours running in, but not hot. Dapol Dave advised me that the loco to tender wires will shortly be available as a spare from the usual outlet.

[roundhouse]

we picked up a couple at Leamington. Both had all the bits in so you must have bern unlucky.

 

I wasnt aware of the different smoke deflectors on 70013 as thats the one I plan to do.

 

Ian

[leachsprite4]

Firstly big thanks to big Dave for chatting today Dapol may not be perfect but you are certainly honest and open .

 

Could not resist a Brit at £60 so now have 70030 waiting to test and run in Thursday. All parts present although no oiling instructions which I can get from this thread. Thanks for the oil Dapol a very god extra, although just realised no receipt if I need to return.

 

Graham

 

 

 

 

[Adam1701D]

Picked up a Britannia today from TINGS and had it merrily running around the N-Train test track with an esoteric assortment of Electra rolling stock.

[Tom J]

we picked up a couple at Leamington. Both had all the bits in so you must have bern unlucky.

 

I wasnt aware of the different smoke deflectors on 70013 as thats the one I plan to do.

 

 

If you put a pile of locos in front of me, all in their boxes, I will find the dud! Mind you, I've repaired the tender steps already. I'm on a roll!

 

There was an accident at Milton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_rail_crash where the handrails were deemed to have impeded the driver's view. I have done my fair share of miles in the cab of 70013 and the driver's view ahead is not exactly panoramic! As a result, the WR changed the smoke deflectors, by removing the handrails and making cutouts to create grab handles in the deflectors themselves.

 

Dapol never produced these (I suspect that the thickness of the deflectors on their model would have made the cutouts look odd) and I imagine this is why 70013 was produced with the early crest, rather than late as originally listed.

 

70000 carries the original handrails to this day, but 70013 has the revised ones. I'm afraid I don't know exactly when it gained them. Until recently it also had one red and one black-backed nameplate - both are now black!

 

Cut a long story short, I've swapped Britannia's late crest tender onto Cromwell, which now needs new 'blinkers' and nameplates. With new plates, and maybe the ceremonial white roof, this could represent 70000 as she looks now, but I am going for broke - and a respray...

[roundhouse]

Thanks Tom for the info on the smoke deflectors. Looks like a modification I can do.

 

I am going to order the plates and thought black was the latest colour so that helps reconfirm what I thought. Having one red and one black threw me in many photos though!

Edited September 10, 2012 by roundhouse

[roundhouse]

I have now ordered the nameplates and decals specific to 70013 from Modelmasters as that will save me having to apply each individual number.

 

If I cant carve the Dapol deflectors I might try fabricating them from some thin brass sheet that I have had for some years.

 

Ian

Edited September 12, 2012 by roundhouse

[Dan Hamblin]

70000 carries the original handrails to this day, but 70013 has the revised ones. I'm afraid I don't know exactly when it gained them. Until recently it also had one red and one black-backed nameplate - both are now black!

70000 actually received the round cut outs during BR service. When the smoke deflectors became life expired around 1995 / 1996 they were replaced with the original handrail type

 

I think 70013 had the two different nameplate background colours during 2009 only.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[Tom J]

Bit more recent than that for 70013, Dan - it was red until we did the firebox work in 2010. Certainly was red in the March, as I was on the crew for the 'Roaring Monster' trip over Shap.

 

I did wonder about 70000 - I thought I remembered it having the other ones when I was a kid (ie during its last stint on the main line!). That explains why the deflectors look a lot tidier than '13s, which have had a piece let into them!

 

70013 also still has its painted nameplates from the last days of steam. They were discovered during the overhaul and were painted round to preserve them behind the cast 'plates.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Tom J

[Dan Hamblin]

Ahhhh, the firebox work! I couldn't remember what the event was that preceded the change back to black backgrounds, thought it was during the winter maintenance period. Thanks for the correction.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[70021 Morning Star]

.

EASING ROUTINE LUBRICATION

 

Thanks to Alan for his suggestion to remove the keeper plate for lubrication of the wheel bearings and gears, rather than routinely undertaking disassembly of the whole locomotive.

 

One thing that I'm thinking is to drill a couple of small lubricating holes into the keeper plate before reattaching it, as this would permit insertion of a needle oiler without further need to remove even the keeper plate.

 

Also, one question: does oiling of the drive gears (as Al describes) give sufficient lubrication to the worm gear from underneath? I'm thinking that the oil will migrate from the drive gears, upwards onto the worm gear, if the locomotive is left inverted or track run immediately after lubricating.

 

Thanks,

Rick 

Edited April 6, 2015 by 70021 Morning Star

[70021 Morning Star]

.

RECONNECTING THE TENDER WIRES & DRIVE COUPLING TO THE LOCOMOTIVE

 

As previously mentioned, Dapol got it completely wrong: you DO NOT need to disassemble the n gauge Britannia locomotives when they need lubricating. You simply pop out the keeper plate and apply lubrication to the now exposed gearing from underneath.

 

Similarly, one of the first instructions Dapol give new owners is to uncouple the tender from the locomotive. What they don't tell you is that you'll have an absolute nightmare getting it back together again. So, here's a few tips from the two hours of hair-pulling nightmare I had yesterday.

 

• REFITTING THE WIRES - of course, you need to thread that tiny screw through the connector loop on the end of each wire, then persuade the screw to stay on the end of your screwdriver while you also persuade the wire to come across to the fixing point. Great game, where one slip results in 'game over' and the wire acting like a catapult to send that microscopically tiny screw into orbit! AAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!     ---  OK, here's how to refit the wires without any tears. First, be aware that the wires cross-over [CORRECTION: they don't cross over as such. They're arranged as loops. Each loop originates and terminates on the same side, but to avoid putting too much stress on these very fine wires, and their solder joints, each wire is looped over to the other side before coming back onto it's own side. So, you're *NOT* wiring left-to-right and right-to-left, but simply looping the wire over to the other side, before bring ing it back again. My apologies for any earlier confusion - Rick]. The one coming from the right of the tender into the connection on the left of the locomotive. Tools you'll need are, a heavily magnetized jeweller's x head screwdriver. (If it's not already magnetized, draw it across a magnet. I used the magnet at the back of my HiFi music system.) You'll also need some masking tape. Cut the masking tape into thin strips, about 3-5mm wide. And you'll want something to cradle the locomotive and tender while they're inverted (I used the bottom edge of the clear plastic box lid, the one Dapol supplied the model in (but a foam rubber cradle would be better). To do the job: remembering that the wires cross-over, tape the first wire into place with the masking tape. This should align the loop on the end of the wire directly onto the screw hole, and keep if from moving (particularly not in catapult mode!). You can now insert the miniature screw onto the tip of your heavily magnetized jeweller's screwdriver and bring it across to the screw hole, without risk of the wire slipping and sending it into orbit. It's use of masking tape to keep those wires from moving that's crucial. Use as much masking tape as you need, and you'll find it's best if you take the strips of tape right around the locomotive body, as the tape will stick better to itself than to the paintwork of the locomotive.
• RECONNECTING THE DRIVE SHAFT - isn't as straightforward as it could be. Yes, it is possible to jiggle it into place and carefully lay the locomotive onto the track. But the coupling should give a soft click when it's properly engaged. This time I used a super-fine flat bladed jeweller's screwdriver to turn both the tender 'cup' and the locomotive cross bar to the horizontal. (It needs to be horizontal for the second stage.) You can then hold the locomotive vertically, so the cross bar connector dangles, and carefully position the tender so that the tip of the cross bar is inside the end of the tender's cup, with the pins in the ends of the slot. You must now use the flat blade of the jeweller's screwdriver to push the tip of the cross bar down, so that it quietly clicks into place about half way down the slots in the cup. Be aware that you won't hear or feel much of a click, but the connection is very definitely made. It won't pull out again unless the connection is subjected to rough handling. 
• One last thing. Do run the tightening tool over those hexagonal nuts on the running gear before going for a test drive, else (like me) you may spend the next half hour, wishing you'd packed a magnet, while you savour in the excitement of looking for a microscopically teeny-weeny screw along the length of your test track!

 

Dapol's n gauge Britannia's are superb. Hope you get one and enjoy it.

 

Good-luck,

Rick

Edited April 22, 2015 by 70021 Morning Star

[Les1952]

Having managed to uncouple the drive shaft on my 70000 while fitting it with a chip I fully agree the Brit is the hardest of Dapol's tender drives to reconnect.  I put oil onto worms with a long needle through the cab- saves undoing anything underneath and it seems to work. (I'd asked in Jan 2011 if it would- it seems to).

 

Both of mine will be doing exhibition duties this weekend, 70004 is still covering for one of my two A1s that has a total motor failure- its third show this year in this role.  Britannia on its first show as a digital engine is standing in for Lemberg, which has gone off for a new cab speaker- not a Dapol problem if the sound stops.

 

The two Brits, OTOH, have not given me a spot of trouble in four years....

 

All the very best

Les

Edited April 15, 2015 by Les1952

[Dr Al]

Also, one question: does oiling of the drive gears (as Al describes) give sufficient lubrication to the worm gear from underneath? I'm thinking that the oil will migrate from the drive gears, upwards onto the worm gear, if the locomotive is left inverted or track run immediately after lubricating.

 

For the gearing yes, the only thing it won't do is lubricate the worm gear's bearings. I haven't done this on my Brits (due to the disassembly being a bitch) but have on other Dapol models and it can make a big difference, particularly to noisy runners.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Dr Al]

• First, be aware that the wires cross-over.

 

Is this a change on the latest tool models??? No other Dapol loco crosses sides - they are all left side to left side and right side to right side....I suspect these are no different.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Addendum - if you've done this and the loco doesn't short out, then it's likely that the loco is not picking up power at all - not always that noticable as the tender pickups are reasonably good. If you lift the tender off the track while running and the loco stops then there's issues with the loco pickups - this is common I've found on Dapol steam - several I've had have had zero conductivity between the posts that the wires screw into and the transfer strips below them on the loco end. Requires removal of them, polishing and bending the strips to ensure they make good contact when the posts are reinserted.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Dr Al

[70021 Morning Star]

Hi Al and Les,

Good news is that oiling the gears with Al's keeper plate removal procedure does lubricate the worm gear. Just leave the locomotive inverted for a short while, and apply slightly more lubricating oil to the rearmost gear. You can also help things along by using a 9V battery to turn the gears.

 

This was confirmed in conversation with Dapol's repair and maintenance centre this afternoon.

 

Les, how about a few more details on your sound fitting? I'd like to add a sound chip, but until I get a special too that'll allow me to pinch those two lugs holding the boiler to the locomotive, I'm leaving well alone.

 

Cheers,

Rick

[70021 Morning Star]

.

REAR BOGIE DOESN'T LIKE REVERSING (ALWAYS DERAILS)

 

Generally I'm very pleased with my Britannia  - 70021 "Morning Star", of course - but I am having a 'running in' problem, as the rear bogie always derails after a very short distance. Runs great forwards, with all bogies staying on the rails, but won't reverse successfully.

 

I'm assuming this requires a small 'tweak', in common with all n gauge steam locomotives. Only thing I did notice is that the fitting is a bit sloppy, as though the screw is a tadd too long, allowing too much up/down free play on the swivel. There is a small spring under the bogie wheels, that's intended to keep the wheels gently pressed on the track, so I'm thinking there shouldn't be any up/down play (just rotational movement) at the coupling. 

 

Would appreciate any suggestions.

 

Thanks,

Rick

Edited April 16, 2015 by 70021 Morning Star

[Les1952]

The sound conversion on Lemberg was done by Wickness Models and the details are on their website. 

 

The loco needed to be synchronised after I got it to give 6 beats to the revolution.  Later on I heard Paul Chetters demonstrate his A3 sound file and got Digitrains to re-blow the chip with his Pauliebanger sound file, which has an improved whistle amongst other things over the Youchoos file.

 

The decoder is hardwired into the tender and the speaker is in the cab roof.  I think that the speaker might have packed up, which is why Lemberg has gone back for sorting.

 

Wickness will also put a sound chip into Dapol B1s, Halls and 9Fs.

 

All the very best

Les

[70021 Morning Star]

Thanks, Les,

I like the idea of fitting the speaker in the cab roof. As the loco and tender are so close-coupled it'll be invisible and no issues with the sound escaping. Very clever.

 

Cheers,

Rick