Dapol Britannia

[Les1952]

It does, however, make refitting a pinged driveshaft Britannia-like in its difficulty

 

(A3s are usually easier than Brits or A4s to do.....)

 

All the very best

Les

[70021 Morning Star]

Sorry, Al,

My point is that you can lubricate the worm gear without disassembly.

 

DCC Supplies - Dapol's own (outsourced) repair and maintenance providers - confirmed that lubricating the gears that are exposed by (your suggestion of removing the keeper plate from the bottom of the locomotive) will transfer sufficient oil/lubricant to the worm gear. They say there is *never* any reason to disassemble the Britannia to lubricate it.  

 

In fact, it was confirmed that non-essential disassembly is a very bad idea, due to the aforementioned difficulties of reassembling. DON'T DO IT !

 

All the best,

Rick 

[Dr Al]

Sorry, Al,

My point is that you can lubricate the worm gear without disassembly.

 

Absolutely. The gear teeth will be lubricated, and this is a good way to do it. The worm's plastic bearing that it's shaft runs it won't be though, that's the one thing that still needs the boiler removed to get at. It's not a major thing - but I do like to lube them as it tends to quieten running if other Dapol models are anything to go by.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[70021 Morning Star]

Surely a suitable lubricant will 'migrate' from the gears to the bearing? I'd be amazed if it didn't.

 

Rick

[Dr Al]

Surely a suitable lubricant will 'migrate' from the gears to the bearing? I'd be amazed if it didn't.

 

Rick

 

No, very unlikely - on Dapol models that come factory lubricated it doesn't happen in my experience - the lubricant would have to move right to the end of the worm (where there is no spur gear engaging to actually do this), then curl round the end and work its way into the bearing. This just doesn't happen in my experience.

 

It's generally not a problem as all other Dapol steamers you can get the boiler off faily easily and lubricate the parts (A4 is also difficult).

 

Cheers,

Alan

[70021 Morning Star]

.
CORRECTION TO POST 223: "RECONNECTING THE TENDER WIRES & DRIVE COUPLING TO THE LOCOMOTIVE"
 
Earlier, I said the wires linking the locomotive and tender crossover : actually, they don't cross over as such. They're arranged as loops. Each loop originates and terminates on the same side, but to avoid putting too much stress on those very fine wires, and their solder joints, each wire is looped over to the other side before coming back onto it's own side. So, you're *NOT* wiring left-to-right and right-to-left, but simply looping the wire over to the other side, before bring ing it back again.

 

As for the solder joints: it's important that these point in the direction that the wire is looped. You need to hold the wire (tweezers) when you tighten the retaining screw, otherwise it'll twist around. If the very fine wire isn't pointing the way the wire is, it'll very quickly break. Another thing I'd suggest is running some epoxy glue over the solder joint and a short way along the wire. This is to strengthen the poor soldering and help strengthen the wire-to-connector - which is a huge weak point - preventing too much strain being placed on the brittle wire. 

 

My apologies for any earlier confusion. If you're not clear, send me a message and I'll be happy to clarify.

 

Rick

Edited April 22, 2015 by 70021 Morning Star

[70021 Morning Star]

.

FIX FOR BRITANNIA DERAILING ON 3RD RADIUS CURVES

 

[Thought I'd already posted this?] Anyway, I've recently had a bit of fun with my n gauge Dapol Britannia - 70021 "Morning Star" of course - constantly derailing on even 3rd radius curves. This was strange, as it had been running perfectly.

 

Eventually I traced the problem to the tender front being too close to the cab of the locomotive.

 

What happened is this: I always pick up both locomotive and tender, as a single unit, between my finger and thumb. Seemingly, the weight of the motor in the tender had caused it to drop away from the plastic bodyshell clips. It had then moved the bodyshell forwards, just a smidgen (so small it wasn't noticeable) then it reclipped itself in this incorrect position.

 

Seems there's a bit of free play in how the bodyshell clips to the tender chassis. Just enough to cause it to foul on the cab.

 

Anyway, the fix is to reposition the bodyshell so that the rear of the tender aligns with the rear buffer beam, then press it securely home. And, whenever you put this beauty on the track, just check that alignment hasn't moved before running. The Britannia will then happily negotiate 2nd radius curves.

 

Superb model.

 

 

Rick

Edited July 7, 2015 by 70021 Morning Star

[Les1952]

Shown at the Dapol Open day today was a Britannia with the Scottish high-sided tender.

 

So far it is a concept proving model and nothing was said (AFAIK) about production.

 

Les

[70021 Morning Star]

.

LUBRICATING THE WORM GEAR

 

Ok, folks, here's the definitive answer on whether you need to disassemble the Britannia to lubricate the worm gear.

 

YOU DON'T DISSASEMBLE THE BRITANNIA FOR ANY LUBRICATION, INCLUDING LUBRICATION OF THE WORM GEAR

 

Dapol have kindly supplied me with a DNR locomotive for use in repairs and experimentations. This has permitted me to tear the whole thing apart and to thoroughly investigate the lubrication issues.

 

As we already know, access to the main drive gears is facilitated by 'popping out' the keeper plate that's fitted underneath the locomotive. This also affords access to the worm gear and its bearings.

 

Lubricating the Worm Gear - with the keeper plate removed, hold the locomotive in a vertical position, with the cab down and pistons up. Use a torch for better visibility. Look at the gap just in front of the rear axle, and tilt the front of the locomotive towards you. You'll see the end of the oblong box that holds the worm gear. Now, if you twist the body left-right, you should be able to see the front end of the brass worm gear protruding about 1.1 mm out of the front of the worm gear gearbox.  This is where you apply a tiny drop of oil, using a needle oiler, to lubricate the worm gear's front bearing.

 

Now place the locomotive on its back, so it's upside down. Look behind that rear axle. You'll see the rearmost drive gear. Directly under this gear is the worm gear gearbox. It is open at the bottom, where that final drive gear meshes with the worm gear. You only have to lubricate the final drive gear to also lubricate where the worm gear meshes with the drive gear.

 

Finally, the worm gear's rear bearing is accessed via the cab. This time, hold the locomotive in a vertical position with the cab uppermost and the pistons down. You'll see the slotted black cowling funnel that the plastic drive shaft plugs into. Immediately in front of the cowling is the rear bearing of the worm gear. If you slide the tip of a needle oiler along the cowling, as far as it will go, the needle will be in contact with the back of the worm gear gearbox. You can now apply a tiny drop of oil onto the rear bearing of the worm gear.  --- Job done !

 

That's it, folks.  Just remember to also add a miniscule amount of oil to the main drive gears, as well as lubricating the motion gear*.

 

*I'd recommend using a fine paintbrush to lubricate the motion gear. You only need the merest suggestion of oil (else it'll contaminate the traction tyres, with disastrous results!). Use the paintbrush to put a drop of oil between the parts that need lubricating. Capillary action will draw the oil into where it's needed. Then dry your paintbrush on kitchen paper. You can now use the dry paintbrush to remove any excess oil by simply applying it to the area you've just oiled. The dry brush will draw off the excess oil back into the bristles.

 

Hope this helps. Dapol's models of the Britannia class locomotives really are excellent.

 

Rick

Edited January 14, 2016 by 70021 Morning Star

[millerhillboy]

Can anyone help......I managed to source a ultra cheap brit but not without its problems. First being being an excessively hot tender after a few minutes of running. After having read hear about the brushes and brush holders being coated in gunk I pulled those and cleaned them and things do seem to be better. I need to get get a meter on it to check but I'm hoping that's now solved.

 

Second thing I noted is that the keeper plate at the rear end is floating.  There doesn't seem to be anything there to retain it. Is Is there something on the loco itself to retain to retain the plate, if so that's missing. I'm thinking the smallest spot of glue should be enough tog kept it there?

 

 Finally even with the body and tender and front and rear pony trucks removed and just the front 6 wheels including motion the loco has has a small but noticeable waddle to it. Is this likely to be a tight spot in the motion and I'm wondering what the best way too attack such an issue?

 

Thanks in advance.

MHB

[70021 Morning Star]

Disconnect the drive shaft. Run the motor at medium power. See if the motor still gets hot. If it doesn't, then (the usual cause) something is 'binding' inside the gearing or valve gear of the locomotive.

 

The keeper plate has a dovetail clip at one end and a hook type clip at the other. You need to bend the keeper plate to put it back on the locomotive. Attach the dovetail end first (it pushes horizontally into place) then fit the front end. Also note that the transverse bars of the brake gear need refitting into their holes once the main clips are in place.

 

By "waddle", if you mean that the locomotive can be twisted on the rails, then this is normal. However, if it is 'rocking' then the two usual causes are 'binding' of the gears inside the locomotive (where the torque of the drive shaft is causing a twisting action) or your traction tyres need replacing. Traction tyres should fit flush with the wheel rim. If they're contaminated with oil, the rubber 'balloons' and they no longer fit into the groove in the wheel rim. Clean away any sign of oil and replace with a new set of tyres or (if you can't get any) see my article on using heat-shrink insulation tubing.

 

I've sent you a PM.

 

Rick 

[Dr Al]

 Finally even with the body and tender and front and rear pony trucks removed and just the front 6 wheels including motion the loco has has a small but noticeable waddle to it. Is this likely to be a tight spot in the motion and I'm wondering what the best way too attack such an issue?

 

 

I've seen this on several Dapol locos, and all have had it traced back to traction tyres that aren't uniform thickness. I've swapped probably 6 locos at least and replacing the tyres always fixed it. Never seen any with tight gears or valve gear, so I'd recommend focussing on the tyres first - if you can get the loco at eye level, run slowly and watch the rear drivers it should be visually obvious if the examples I've seen are anything to go by.

 

Dapol's wheels seem to be made to a very good standard and tolerance, so I'd think it's not likely to be quartering (squared axle ends sort this) or concentric-ness of the actual wheels (again seem very good).

 

HTH,

Alan

Edited January 29, 2016 by Dr Al

[millerhillboy]

Thanks guys, looks like the tyres are the likely culprit then. I've tried turning the motion gently with a small screwdriver and to the best of my perception I cannot feel any tight spots in the motion. Quite the opposite to be honest,

Edited January 29, 2016 by millerhillboy

[millerhillboy]

In addition Alan you might be interested to hear my brush holders were also covered in 'gloop' and the tender was heating up pretty quickly. Once removed and cleaned along with the brushes themselves I no longer seem to get the hot tender. Although I've yet to put a meter on it.

[Dr Al]

Interesting - it seems like glue to stop them unscrewing themselves. I've only scraped it off if I've wanted to get in to clean the commutator. It could be with extended running the motor is bedding in more which is also helping.

 

Cheers,
Alan

[70021 Morning Star]

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Superdetailling: Western Region modified Smoke Deflectors

 

 

70021 "Morning Star" (rear left) was unusual in that her smoke deflectors were never modified. While 70025 "Western Star" (front right), more typically, had her original handrails removed and replaced with the Western Region brass-lined pierced handholds, seen here with the brass linings gleaming in the sunlight. (In common with most of the Britannia fleet, 70025's brass nameplates were, sadly, removed in later life; although I'll be refitting the original Dapol nameplates on Western Star's new etched brass perforated smoke deflectors.)

 

Enjoy,

Rick

Edited March 21, 2016 by 70021 Morning Star

[millerhillboy]

Looks great rick, good to see someone supporting those who like to tinker with their out the box models.

 

Can I ask where to buy them please?

[Hailstone]

Looks great rick, good to see someone supporting those who like to tinker with their out the box models.

 

Can I ask where to buy them please?

Me too, they look terrific

 

Regards,

 

Alex

[70021 Morning Star]

These are a pre-release 'product testing' sample, all the way from Orkney. Being "all thumbs", I was tasked with testing that they're easy-to-fit by the average modeller.
 
I understand they'll go on sale in the next few days. They're an official, "Dapol approved upgrade part" (probably the first in a series of upgrade parts for Dapol N scale locomotives), so keep checking the Dapol website or Googling "Dapol Britannia western region etched brass smoke deflectors", or similar, for more information.

 

I'm told  they'll definitely be available the week after Easter, if not sometime this week. But then, everyone is just a tad exhausted after Ally Pally, and we do have Easter coming up.

 

Not sure how much else I can say under the forum rules on mentioning suppliers. So, I'll stick with just letting  N scale modellers know what's in the pipeline, and that there are some really exciting 'model upgrade' packs coming along in 2016.

 
Rick

Edited March 22, 2016 by 70021 Morning Star

[Crepello]

.

Superdetailling: Western Region modified Smoke Deflectors

 

70021 and 70025 (2).jpg

 

70021 "Morning Star" (rear left) was unusual in that her smoke deflectors were never modified. While 70025 "Western Star" (front right), more typically, had her original handrails removed and replaced with the Western Region brass-lined pierced handholds, seen here with the brass linings gleaming in the sunlight. (In common with most of the Britannia fleet, 70025's brass nameplates were, sadly, removed in later life; although I'll be refitting the original Dapol nameplates on Western Star's new etched brass perforated smoke deflectors.)

 

Enjoy,

Rick

 

Yes I like those Rick--will be in for them I think. Are the headlamps the Dapol ones sold with the fireirons? Much closer to scale than the Springside type.

[70021 Morning Star]

Springside lamps.

Dapol fire irons.

GF valves thingies on pistons.

My coal ☺.

 

Rick

[Dr Al]

.; although I'll be refitting the original Dapol nameplates on Western Star's new etched brass perforated smoke deflectors.)

 

Enjoy,

Rick

 

Worth replacing them with better. Dapol's nameplates are massively overscale - closer to that needed on a 3mm scale model....!

 

Cheers,

Alan

[70021 Morning Star]

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A FEW MORE PICTURES TO GET YOUR JUICES FLOWING...

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, if you just want thinner smoke deflectors while retaining the original Dapol handrails - as I need for 70021 "Morning Star" - then I've successfully removed the original Dapol smoke deflectors and filed them down to 1mm thickness. It takes forever, but is worth the effort. This is what I'll be doing with Morning Star because, as previously mentioned, she retained her original handrails throughout her life. She was also unique in retaining her lined express green livery throughout; other Britannia locomotives retained the express green paint, but only 70021 retained the ornate lining.

 

Finally, notice the way the sunlight passes through those handhold cutouts to cast a dappled pattern across the boiler. I had her on my test track this afternoon, and the effect was even more impressive with those gleaming brass handholds and an ever changing pattern of dappled sunlight falling across the boiler and track.

 

 

Enjoy,

Rick

Edited March 23, 2016 by 70021 Morning Star

[MGR Hooper!]

Is there any finescale wheels for this loco?

[Clagmeister]

Did anything come of the Britannia with the BR1D high sided tender mentioned in 2015 on this thread?  What chances of another production run of these generally?  

 

Thanks

 

Mike