Marcway v C+L 7mm Turnouts...

[bcnPete]

Good afternoon,

 

Did a quick trawl first but couldn't see that this topic has been discussed yet.

 

Am thinking of dipping the toe in the 7mm scale and am just curious as to peoples opinions on Marcway or C+L turnouts. There does not seem to be photos on either website, although I have found a few on some related topics here. They both look very smart.

 

The Marcway turnout kits look to be good value and much cheaper than the C+L turnouts but I guess the difference is there are no chairs on the Marcway turnouts. I keep thinking to myself, that if I am bothered about chairs on my 2mmFS layouts (With PCB construction I have not but with the Easitrac turnouts I have) it seems a bit strange to overlook them at 7mm scale. Is it so obvious when attached to plain track with chairs?

 

Just after some opinions and help really as this topic is not intended to spark controversy about which system is better etc.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Pete

[3 link]

Hi Pete,

 

In my opinion you cannot beat C&L and especially in 7mm you need the detail of the chairs,etc. Exactoscale also do a similar trackwork which was designed and tooled by the same talented gent, Len Newman who used to own C&L. Also it is not rocket science to build these turnouts in fact I find it very enjoyable, and you will soon find yourself doing tandems ,slips, etc. I don't suppose you live anywhere near Telford, as on the 4-5th September there will be the event of the year for us 7mm modelers, and you can see for yourself the trackwork and I am sure C&L will be there.

 

ATB, Martyn.

[bcnPete]

c. I don't suppose you live anywhere near Telford, as on the 4-5th September there will be the event of the year for us 7mm modelers, and you can see for yourself the trackwork and I am sure C&L will be there.

 

Martyn, hi

 

Thanks for this - Unfortunately not...the BCN in my name is short for Barcelona...and I have used up all my credit this year for 'weekend trips to the UK solely for modelling purposes'

 

Agreed that at this scale, we should be including more detail, so chairs are a must. I did speak to Marc of Marcway (very helpful chap) earlier on the phone today and it was suggested that cosmetic chairs could be applied, but I thought I read eleswhere in another thread that it was tedious and the results not that worthwhile.

 

I also see that Peco do a range of O scale components including chairs to build your own...is this another alternative perhaps?

 

Pete

[hayfield]

Pete

 

My opinion is that 0 gauge should have chairs, from a distance you can get away with soldered construction in 00

 

C&L use code 125 bullhead rail and do copperclad strip (and sell copper strip to bring the rail to chair height)

 

Peco do code 125 flatbotom.

[Andy Siddall]

Hi Pete,

 

I have to agree with Marytn here, if I had the to choose, as indeed I have, then it's C&L all the way.

 

I have not built a layout yet due to the indecision between which of 2 ideas to go for, however a couple of years ago I bought one of C&Ls point in a bags and must say that

I got so much enjoyment from building it that I now have 4 points and a double slip.....

 

I have also in the last year, wired a layout for a friend. He has mainly standard peco points, however he also has 2 marcway 3-way points. I have never had as much trouble before from any track work as I have from these.

The Marcway design uses a rather cleverly thought out method of using the copper clad sleepers with cuts in the correct place for insulation to give us electrical continuity and also isolation depending on which way the point is thrown (easier to understand and explain with a point in front of you, which I have not at the moment). The trouble with this method starts when your friend puts track pins down the middle of the timbers and continues when you get a dodgy connection caused by paint and general muck.

 

They do however work out cheaper but you pays your money etc....

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[3 link]

Hi Pete,

 

Yes I suppose Barcelona is a bit far for you to travel, lovely place though been there a couple of times myself. I think Andy has the right idea to try one of their points in a bag jobs for starters, they do both code 125 bullhead and code 125 or 148 flat bottom rail and as for sleepers you have a choice of plastic or timber. I have used plastic sleepers myself but they say that the butone is just as good if not better for sticking the chairs to the timber sleepers. As for the copper clad sleepers, if the soldered joints aren't tidy it would be a laborious job to file all the solder flat just to fit a cosmetic chair to each sleeper in my opinion. Have a look at C&L'S website no pictures but it will give you an idea. Or have a look at Richards thread php?f=9&t=40978 . Sorry the link to that thread doesn't work perhaps someone who knows how to send a link could help out here please.

 

ATB, Martyn.

[dikitriki]

Hi Pete

 

C&L and/or Exactoscale every time. I do build copperclad pointwork (and it's quick and fun too) but only for speed and cost reasons in fiddle yards. Never on the viewing side.

 

My thread on building pointwork that Martyn referred to is here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=45544

 

Happy building!

 

Richard

[Jack]

Whilst I agree with others comments on chairs, I just don't have the time, patience or money to build C&L kits. Morever, I needed 6 48" radius points for my current plan.

 

I have therefore gone down the Marcway route. If i had to build 6 48" points from kits i would have to wait until i could afford each stage, and wait whilst i built each point. Since it has taken me 2 months to put together one slaters open wagon kit i think i made the right choice!

 

To be honest, they don't look too bad and when properly painted and ballested i don't think it'll be much of an issue.

[hayfield]

Whilst I do not want to stop anyone buying items from suppliers, there seems to be some form of mystery about making turnouts. Most modellers will try building quite advanced locos, rolling stock or scratch build buildings but quiver at trackwork.

 

Copperclad turnouts are both easy to build and reliable, but unless you lift the rail off the sleeper with shim the fitting of chairs is nigh on impossiable. In my opinion you need chaired track on the scenic sections of 0 gauge track unless the track is going to be buried.

 

The C & L kit in the bag is at £45, however they sell a point kit at £10.50 (sleepers and chairs) and 10 yards of rail is £17.50 and will do 3 to 4 turnouts so for about £15 to £17 you can have the parts to build a turnout, all you have to do is file up the V's and switch rails. A one off cost of under a tenner will get you a set of roller gauges that will last you a lifetime.

 

If you are a belt and braces person then you can buy some PCB strip to give the turnout added strength (C&L sell packing strip to lift the rail). Most should be able to build a turnout in one or two evenings.

[bcnPete]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far - it's really really helpful.

 

I guess it comes down to personal choices, available time, money, experience etc. I kinda feel I need to include chairs although strangely enough my idea for my small first 7mm layout based on Wenfordbridge has a lot of track inlaid in a concrete apron, so I guess a lot of chairs would be hidden Perhaps a mix of track might work well here.

 

I am also hoping my recent experiments with the 2mm Finescale EASITRAC turnouts should help me...they also use Butanone to fix the chairs...albeit perhaps a bit more fiddly though!

 

If anyway has any experience of the Peco components, I would be interested to hear. I guess their turnouts are another option, although they seem quite expensive.

 

Thanks again, Pete

[45157]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far - it's really really helpful.

 

I guess it comes down to personal choices, available time, money, experience etc. I kinda feel I need to include chairs although strangely enough my idea for my small first 7mm layout based on Wenfordbridge has a lot of track inlaid in a concrete apron, so I guess a lot of chairs would be hidden Perhaps a mix of track might work well here.

 

I am also hoping my recent experiments with the 2mm Finescale EASITRAC turnouts should help me...they also use Butanone to fix the chairs...albeit perhaps a bit more fiddly though!

 

If anyway has any experience of the Peco components, I would be interested to hear. I guess their turnouts are another option, although they seem quite expensive.

 

Thanks again, Pete

 

Peco 7mm turnouts are fine, there are numerous 7mm layouts on this forum which show that carefully laid and ballasted they can look superb and of course they work.

Tower Models, for example, do them at a fair discount (no connection other than a very satisfied customer).

Cost wise, I think it would be fair to say (forgetting appearance / geometry / accuracy etc) that a Peco ready to run turnout will generally be cheaper than a C+L kit on a one of purchase.

The cost of the C+L route will come down a bit over time by having your own stocks of chairs / sleepers / rail etc.

Depending on your own rolling stock / wheel standards / back to back settings / amount of slop in axles etc you might get a bit of a judder / wheel drop when passing slowly over the crossing nose, especially 4 wheel wagons, although the check rails are adjustable to help with this.

I had intended to use all Peco for my train set but, as it is a small shunting layout the judder annoyed me (in fairness, nothing ever derailed) and as the prototype in my case would have been interlaced sleepers and four bolt chairs, I decided to sell the Peco and go for C+L.

 

I will admit to being very concerned about my ability to use plastic sleepers and chairs but I need not have worried and have no regrets about the decision.

C+L can supply the materials to whatever standard of completion you require, from raw materials to ready to run.

For the first couple I elected to go for the pre-assembled crossing vees and machined switch rails, but confidence soon grew and simple little jigs were made up to file the vees and rails for the remainder.

Plenty of track gauges and a good straight edge (C+L can also supply both) make the job much easier.

I just wish the wooden track and turnout bases had been available when I started as they make assembly even easier, and look absolutely superb when finished.

 

If you have the time (and inclination of course) I would go for C+L, if not, you will not go far wrong using Peco trackwork and turnouts.

 

regards

Stewart

[jamie92208]

I would certainly reccommend C & L for all visible track and copperclad for fiddle Yards. there is a height difference so the Marcway copperclad types need an extra layer of cork underneath to match the height of standard peco plain track. What i wo0uld reccommend is going the whole hog and buying and learning to use templot the n hyou can custom design your own turnouts to suit whatever your situation is.

 

Jamie

 

PS No connection with any trader or product apart from being a satisfiedc ustomer of all three that I have men tioned.

[bcnPete]

Stewart - Many thanks - I see what you mean about the Tower discount prices - I am tempted to get one just to see it, so to speak.

 

I will be running a Bachmann brassworks 08 and a few Skytrex wagons - I assume that this will all work fine with Peco/C+L track as I must confess being a 7mm newbie, I am a little confused by all the terms: 0 gauge / S7 / 7mm / 32mm

 

Perhaps a C+L turnout in a bag will be a good starting point.

 

Jamie - Thanks also - I think I will not go down the marcway route now, as I really feel I need to have visible chairs at this scale and although a lot of my track will be hidden by a concrete apron for the dries area...it will annoy me knowing they are not there

 

Thanks again all - this is all very helpful.

[jamie92208]

Stewart - Many thanks - I see what you mean about the Tower discount prices - I am tempted to get one just to see it, so to speak.

 

I will be running a Bachmann brassworks 08 and a few Skytrex wagons - I assume that this will all work fine with Peco/C+L track as I must confess being a 7mm newbie, I am a little confused by all the terms: 0 gauge / S7 / 7mm / 32mm

 

Perhaps a C+L turnout in a bag will be a good starting point.

 

Jamie - Thanks also - I think I will not go down the marcway route now, as I really feel I need to have visible chairs at this scale and although a lot of my track will be hidden by a concrete apron for the dries area...it will annoy me knowing they are not there

 

Thanks again all - this is all very helpful.

 

Don't get confused. standard 7mm or O gauge finescale is 32mm track. There is also scaleseven which runs on 33mm but you will find very little if any rtr items that conform to that. The vast majority of O gauge stuff is 32mm and conforms to the Guild standards. You will have no trouble with what you are proposing with the 08 and the skytrex agons. My only advice would be to make sure that you have it all running perfectly before you do any scenics especially burying the track near the dries.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

[bcnPete]

Jamie - Thanks for the clarification - didn't want to build a load of track to the wrong track gauge!

 

Agreed - always best to getting things running sweet before scenics - I am doing a dries in 2FS at present so will be doing thorough testing before starting the apron.

 

Pete

[wagonman]

Don't get confused. standard 7mm or O gauge finescale is 32mm track. There is also scaleseven which runs on 33mm but you will find very little if any rtr items that conform to that. The vast majority of O gauge stuff is 32mm and conforms to the Guild standards. You will have no trouble with what you are proposing with the 08 and the skytrex agons. My only advice would be to make sure that you have it all running perfectly before you do any scenics especially burying the track near the dries.

 

 

 

Just to confuse matters a bit: some people are using 31.5mm gauge so as to reduce the slop inherent in the Guild OF standards!

 

Richard

[45157]

Just to confuse matters a bit: some people are using 31.5mm gauge so as to reduce the slop inherent in the Guild OF standards!

 

Richard

 

 

A friend of mine built a small but quite complex (track wise) main line exhibition layout using this standard, and I have to admit the trackwork looks excellent and the running is faultless.

In fairness, much of this being due to his considerable ability at track laying.

 

regards

Stewart

[martin_wynne]

A friend of mine built a small but quite complex (track wise) main line exhibition layout using this standard, and I have to admit the trackwork looks excellent and the running is faultless.

Hi Stewart,

 

There's a big layout here on RMweb using the 0-MF standard (31.5mm) -- see dikitriki's blog -- http://www.rmweb.co....unning-session/

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[45157]

Hi Stewart,

 

There's a big layout here on RMweb using the 0-MF standard (31.5mm) -- see dikitriki's blog -- http://www.rmweb.co....unning-session/

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Wow !!!

Thank's for the pointer Martin

 

regards

Stewart

[bcnPete]

Richard/Stewart/Martin,

 

Many thanks for this - I think as a newbie, I will stick to 32mm to begin with...although that link to dikitriki's blog is very compelling

 

I collected my unpainted Bachmann Brassworks 08 this weekend when I visited the UK so this may prompt a bit of progress in this scale again - a strange jump from my 2mm Finescale stuff...

 

Many thanks again for all the replies/advice - I think it's time to place an order for some components

 

Pete

[45157]

Richard/Stewart/Martin,

 

Many thanks for this - I think as a newbie, I will stick to 32mm to begin with...although that link to dikitiki's blog is very compelling

 

I collected my unpainted Bachmann Brassworks 08 this weekend when I visited the UK so this may prompt a bit of progress in this scale again - a strange jump from my 2mm Finescale stuff...

 

Many thanks again for all the replies/advice - I think it's time to place an order for some components

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete

 

The 08 is a lovely thing, seriously good value for money.

Mine was used to great effect during track laying and visited a friends large layout, at all times performing without fault.

I decided to get an MMP detailing kit for mine before I painted it and it has been in bits ever since, the MMP kit is incredible.

The chassis is now back together and running with the outside framing section nearly finished.

Now that winter is approaching I must get a move on and finish it off, especially as I have a sound card (new experience for me) waiting to be fitted.

 

Good luck with the move to 7mm.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

regards

Stewart

[dikitriki]

Hi Pete, Stewart

 

Thanks for your comments regarding my 31.5mm layout.

 

I built a 31.5mm turnout to Peco geometry (pretty much) to see what the difference between it and a Peco point was. This picture shows the direct comparison of the business end.

 

 

Although 0.5mm doesn't sound a big difference in the gauge, it makes a huge difference to the running and appearance. Look at the gap at the crossing nose, it's almost halved. I'm totally sold on the benefits of 31.5mm.

 

There's a curved crossover on the layout, exit from the goods loop, which is 1 in 14. Built to 31.5mm gauge, you can't even see where it is looking at the stock moving through. I doubt that it could even be built in 32mm as the wheels would drop into the gap.

 

Whatever you do, it's great fun building your own pointwork.

 

Richard

[bcnPete]

Richard,

 

Thanks for posting that comparison - that does look very nice - perhaps a little beyond my skill set at present though if it means modifying the locos to suit as well.

 

Hi Pete

 

The 08 is a lovely thing, seriously good value for money.

Mine was used to great effect during track laying and visited a friends large layout, at all times performing without fault.

I decided to get an MMP detailing kit for mine before I painted it and it has been in bits ever since, the MMP kit is incredible.

The chassis is now back together and running with the outside framing section nearly finished.

Now that winter is approaching I must get a move on and finish it off, especially as I have a sound card (new experience for me) waiting to be fitted.

 

Good luck with the move to 7mm.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

regards

Stewart

 

Stewart - Thanks also - No worries re the hijack - we all do it and at least this was connected to the OP...I have seen some that go off on a real tangent

 

The 08 is a nice model though, and there is something very nice about it in brass too...could be a while before the paint shop gets to grips with it.

 

Should it be of interest, my 7mm toe dipping is being covered in this layout topic.

 

Pete

[martin_wynne]

perhaps a little beyond my skill set at present though if it means modifying the locos to suit as well.

Hi Pete,

 

It doesn't. 0-MF (31.5mm track gauge with 1.5mm flangeways) accepts industry-standard 0 gauge wheels unmodified.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[bcnPete]

It doesn't. 0-MF (31.5mm track gauge with 1.5mm flangeways) accepts industry-standard 0 gauge wheels unmodified.

 

Thanks Martin....hmm....that's interesting...will have to have a reread of Richard's thread again.