Improving Peco Code 75

[trisonic]

Make the viewing height such that its not down the track, they don't look so bad side on, the more side on, the better

 

But don't tell Mr C.Grate about my view on layout heights

 

 

 

You may well be right. I believe Jon Grant uses Peco code 75 on his "Sweet Home" series; he makes it look good (in HO, of course).

Thanks, mate, Pete.

[Pete the Elaner]

One question, for Andy Y, and others who've used, or using Andy's re-spacing method.

 

"Would the elasticity of the Copydex keep the sleepers in line (with the radius), if glued to the rail bottom, before the track is formed into a curve ?".

 

 

That would probably take away the track's flexibility so you wouldn't be able to curve it.

 

Copydex does have another advantage over PVA though: it dries very quickly. When I laid mine, I put down a yard's worth of glue & by the time I finished laying the length of track, the glue had set enough to hold it in place.

[roythebus]

I tried a similar method on my latest OO layout, but I used a mixture of Peco and Tillig track to give some variety to crossing angles. I cut the sleepers as per the article and left the points alone on the basis that point sleepering is closer anyway.

 

I'm still not happy with the effect, so am now trying to redo the layout with SMP and C&L points using Templot plans, if ever I can master Templot. But that's another subject.

 

One good thing about copydex is when you want to lift the track, soak it in water and the glue breaks down.

[Ceptic]

That would probably take away the track's flexibility so you wouldn't be able to curve it.

 

Copydex does have another advantage over PVA though: it dries very quickly. When I laid mine, I put down a yard's worth of glue & by the time I finished laying the length of track, the glue had set enough to hold it in place.

 

 

Hi All.

 

You've confirmed my suspitions, Pete the Elaner. I had a feeling that the Copydex would break away, and cause all sorts of problems.

 

This is the sort of idea that I've been (mentally) working on.

It's based on the Tracksetta series of radii guides. These have proved very useful over the years. It's just a pity that they're not made of Brass. Soldering the spacers in place would make for a stronger job.

I've shown 5 x 3mm. Brass channel section as an example (available from Eileen's Emporium), as the spacing between the sleepers varies from 4.5mm (approx.). on the PHD spacing jig, to 5.5mm. (approx.) on SMP track.

Of course, all Brass, Plasticard or wood could be used, using the appropriate Tracksetta as a template.

Any thoughts / comments, ideas, tips or criticism, on this bodge, will be most welcome.

 

Regards. Ceptic.

[Pete the Elaner]

I had a feeling that the Copydex would break away, and cause all sorts of problems.

Did I give you that impression? It works really well & does not cause any problems at all.

 

I like your plan for a modified tracksetta. Interesting idea. I used a couple of pieces of plasticard cut to a tooth shape so the teeth fit between the ends of the sleepers.

[Will Vale]

What kind of generic glue is Copydex? I tried to get some here but no-one seemed to have heard of it.

 

Will

 

 

[trisonic]

What kind of generic glue is Copydex? I tried to get some here but no-one seemed to have heard of it.

 

Will

 

 

 

The trade name is not used in the USA either. It's some kind of water soluble latex based adhesive - basically. Smells like old fish.....

 

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[martin_wynne]

What kind of generic glue is Copydex? I tried to get some here but no-one seemed to have heard of it.

Hi Will,

 

Search for latex adhesive, fabric adhesive, canvas adhesive, carpet adhesive. It's a white adhesive with the consistency of double cream, and smelly. It dries to a clear rubbery film. Normally supplied in tubes or small tubs. More expensive than PVA. Can be diluted with a little water to a more brushable consistency, but don't overdo it.

 

Carpet fitters have latex adhesive in larger sizes and cheaper, although some of the cheaper grades don't have the same lifetime in use. They break down to a crumbly dust.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Ceptic]

What kind of generic glue is Copydex? I tried to get some here but no-one seemed to have heard of it.

 

Will

 

 

 

Hi Will,

 

Apparently, it's quite an inoxcious mixture, based on natural Latex Rubber. No toxic warnings on their containers, or list of ingredients, for that matter.

As Pete & Martin have said, quite a rubbery, fishy pong, emits from it, but seems to be harmless... Have you ever mended a bicycle / tyre, inner-tube puncture ? The aroma is very reminicent.

Previously, and quite recently, I've bought mine from http://www.staples.co.uk, but they, no longer, appear, to stock it.

This scource may provide the answer. Hopefully, they can supply overseas customers.

http://www.mayfairst...ive-p-2133.html

Or, http://www.mayfairst...ves-p-2134.html

 

Also available thro' EBay or Amazon. Just search 'Copydex'.

 

Regards

[Will Vale]

I have a strong sinking feeling that I've asked this question before, and then totally forgotten the answer Thanks for filling in the details everyone. I think we had the same stuff at middle school, where it was known as "fishpoo glue".

 

Will

 

 

[57xx]

It's some kind of water soluble latex based adhesive - basically. Smells like old fish.....

 

The smell from Copydex glue is ammonia.

[Ceptic]

Just to adding a bit more info' to this thread.

I've been looking to re-juvenate my Peco Code 100 with some more realistic(?) track, and, as you may have guessed, Andy's thread here, has caught my attention .

What I've ended up choosing is, Tillig Code 83 F/B, with re-spaced sleepers, usig the PHD jig, for the main running lines, and SMP Code 75 B/H for the sidings etc. I'm not quite sure about the points, but I'll probably go for Tillig as the sleeper spacing looks better, although the pattern is not quite BR and they are more exspensive.

Here's a couple of comparative 'out of the box' shots.

.

.

There are a couple of other bonuses with using Tillig. Only one web to cut through per sleeper, when re-spacing, and the rail is pre- weathered, to an extent . It could dowith some more though.

 

Regards.

[Will Vale]

A couple of interesting issues I came across while weathering Klear-ballasted track:

 

1) If you use paint washes with a water base (e.g. dilute acrylic) then any unsealed Klear may go white. It seems to be worst if it's allowed to get really wet as opposed to just damp. If this happens, you can fix it by spraying or brushing on IPA after it's all dried up - the white vanishes instantly.

 

2) If you use paint washes with an alcohol base (I was trying to avoid the above problem!) then watch out - if the ballast is allowed to get really wet with the alcohol, the Klear will soften and your ballast can come loose. If this happens, stop and let it dry - it sets again properly, although you might need to remove stray grains.

 

I don't know if anyone else is likely to be doing what I was doing, but it seemed worth pointing out. Probably better to go with option 1, and give the washes time to dry between coats, or use an airbrush?

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

 

[Rugd1022]

Hi Ceptic,

 

I've not come across Tillig track or pointwork before... could you give a bit more info about it please, suc has cost, availablility etc?

 

Looks good!

 

Cheers, Nidge

[Ron Solly]

Hi Ceptic,

 

I've not come across Tillig track or pointwork before... could you give a bit more info about it please, suc has cost, availablility etc?

 

Looks good!

 

Cheers, Nidge

 

Have a good read of this site

http://www.internationalmodels.net/acatalog/Main_Catalogue_Index_HO_22.html

[Ceptic]

Have a good read of this site

http://www.internati...ndex_HO_22.html

 

 

Glad you stepped in to the rescue here, Ron Solly , as my price list is about a year out of date.

Also, I meant to attach this comparative pic, last night, but I got them mixed up. (it was getting late)

 

 

Showing the latest Peco large radius Code 75 point alongside its Tillig equivalant.

 

Regards

[Pacific231G]

 

I still think if you want easy to use Flat-bottom track Peco is a good start - but I keep thinking Peco could make it so much better looking just by investing in changed moulds for the plain track, re-spaced to something closer to scale. We've gone through this debate before, but Streamline is too closely spaced even for HO British standard.

 

I too had always accepted the common wisdom that Peco sleeper spacing was far too close but in HO it's far more accurate than I'd thought.

 

According to Network Rail, sleeper spacing on rural branches and freight only lines can be 650cm and 700 cm respectively but on main lines the standard sleeper spacing is 60cm. That 60cms is also the norm in Europe and elsewhere (Indian broad gauge for example) and when I actually checked some Peco plain track with an HO scale rule I found that the spacing came to 59cms which is less than 2% out. I also checked against the standard wooden sleeper size of 2.6m x 0.25m x0.15m (that seems to be the same in the UK and France and probably elsewhere as well) and the sleepers were pretty well spot on for length and width though a bit over for depth. Sleeper spacings were though generally wider in earlier epochs.

 

I've never quite understood how this works in 00 (I model in HO) because if you scale sleeper dimensions and spacing accurately to 1:76 than the gauge will be visibly narrow but if you simply adopt the 1:87 scale that the gauge of 16.5mm represents then the trackwork alone will look fine but underscale when placed against rolling stock or other structures.

[martin_wynne]

I've never quite understood how this works in 00

Hi,

 

The traditional 00 BRMSB standard assumes the track gauge to be 4ft-1.1/2in and sleepers to be 8ft long, and models this accurately at 1:76 scale.

 

When done properly this can look very good:

 

 

00 gauge tracks © Gordon S -- link

regards,

 

Martin.

[Chris Nevard]

Slightly off topic. Would I be right in thinking that the new Tillig points have better looking frogs/vees? With the old ones, although they're metal they still looked like a dead frog point because of the different metal colour even after painting the track.

[Ceptic]

Slightly off topic. Would I be right in thinking that the new Tillig points have better looking frogs/vees? With the old ones, although they're metal they still looked like a dead frog point because of the different metal colour even after painting the track.

 

Chris, Click on Ron Solly's link to International Models, above, and scroll down to :-

 

'Information

Last few of original specification points at sale prices',

.

and look at # 85343/4. Tillig Elite's earlier equivalent of Peco's large radius points.

There appears to be a subtle difference to the later Tillig #85351/2, re :-Switch blades & Tie-bar, but not much else..

 

Regards..

[Ramblin Rich]

I do like the look of Tillig, except the wing & check rails seem slightly odd. The wing rails end short of where the check rails do, and the check rails themselves themselves are curved. This is one area that Peco actually looks better! Otherwise the Tillig products seem far better technically.

Fussy bu**er aren't I....

[Rugd1022]

Have a good read of this site

http://www.internati...ndex_HO_22.html

 

A belated thanks Ron, twelve hour shifts tend to get in the way of RMweb activity!

 

Looks interesting... I do like the look of those points B)

 

Nidge

[Chris Nevard]

Thanks Ceptic - they certainly look like an interesting alternative to Peco. Will have to look out for at Warley.

[Bruce Depot]

Great topic Andy, just wish I had seen it before I started my layout. The effort certainly pays reward in the finished photo's

cheers

Keith

[KJM]

Hi Andy

 

Could you let me know where I could buy IPA, I am very keen to use this method, I have tried Boots the chemist but they say that they do not sell it as they do not have a license to sell alcohol..!! I have tried the Maplins site, they sell it but only as an aerosol, would this suffice.

 

Regards

Weejock