Dapol B1 released

[DapolDave]

Hi everyone,

 

The Dapol N gauge B1 steam locmotive started to be released to stockists yesterday.

 

The first batch are the LNER versions and these will reach stockists form today onwards.

We made more than enough of these to cover all orders plus spares for stockists that might need to re-order should they run out.

 

The BR lined black versions (Early and Late crest) will be with stockists by the end of this month.

 

www.Dapol.co.uk

 

cheers

Dave

 

Dapol Ltd

[woodenhead]

Do I buy a Dapol B1 in black at the end of the month or wait for a Farish B1?

 

Which is better?

 

I need Harry Hill FIGHT!!. :lol:

 

Personally I hope both companies do well from this model, we need more top quality N gauge LNE models.

 

Any more B17's planned in BR liveries?

[n-gauge]

The Farish one will be a lot easier to convert to DCC sound as the loco body does not contain and mechanical bits and bobs, but if you're not going down that route then wait until someone can do a back to back comparison. My B17s have settled down although one is a tad noisier than I'd like they run very smoothly, and I'm hoping the tungsten frames and metal gearbox take the B1 running qualities to another level. Also hoping that the wheels on the LNER green versions look less plasticy than the B17's.

 

New B17s are due - Helmingham Hall (late crest), as well as Middlesbrough (early crest) - note to Dapol re the spelling!

[Roy L S]

Do I buy a Dapol B1 in black at the end of the month or wait for a Farish B1?

 

Which is better?

 

I need Harry Hill FIGHT!!. :lol:

 

Personally I hope both companies do well from this model, we need more top quality N gauge LNE models.

 

 

Which is better will be subjective I guess, features of both will probably be "better" or "worse" depending on what people's preferences/priorities are.

 

I have already preordered a pair of Farish ones of which I was told the first ones were supposed to be due about six weeks after the N Gauge show, but all are now showing on the Bachmann Website as "Dec/Jan". So it seems Dapol will beat Farish to Market with this loco after all.

 

I wonder if Dapol Dave would be able to share any pics of the finished locos with us? Thus far all I have seen is the unfinished "Test Shot" model on the Dapol website and a tiny pic of finished ones in their ad in the N Gauge Journal.

 

Roy

[DapolDave]

Hi Roy and Al,

 

will try and take a picture today and upload it to the website, but as you can imagine we are extremely busy here.

 

Production on everything you know about and lots you dont has been ramped up here and time is quite short. (why dont we do 28 hour days then i hear you all ask )

 

However i can confirm that all remaining B1's are on a normal transit time by sea of 28 days, and will be in the market place by the end of this month.

 

Also the next batch of single examples may well be here for the end of November as well (using normal sea transit times of 28 days as well). So depending on demand we might release them as well before December.

cheers

Dave

Dapol Ltd

[woodenhead]

Production on everything you know about and lots you dont has been ramped up here and time is quite short.

 

I like the 'lots you don't' bit.

 

So the Dapol B1 is going to beat Farish to market, the beautiful Brittanias are on their way out to retailers and the HST power cars cannot be far away.

 

I best make allowance though that something(s??) might be appearing at Warley as well.

[Roy L S]

[

]

I like the 'lots you don't' bit.

 

So the Dapol B1 is going to beat Farish to market, the beautiful Brittanias are on their way out to retailers

 

 

If the anticipated delivery time now showing on the Bachmann website is to be believed yes, especially if Dapol's LNER ones aready being shipped to dealers and BR ones by the month end. That said the Bachmann website can be notoriously unreliable - who wouldn't bet on some Farish ones being air-freighted in for Warley?

 

I would still like to see a pic of the factory finished Britannia, although a very nice model there were a few aspects that I feel let it down on the review examples.

 

Cheers

 

Roy

[Butler Henderson]

Photo up on www.Railsofsheffield.co.uk, presumably of the finished retail version as they have a few shots of it in a similar style to other in-stock products. The silver finish on the piston rods and motion does not sit that well with the black screwheads on all the driving wheels

Also compare with a photo of the real thing

i) relationship of running plate loco to tender

ii) the distance from ground to the bottom of the cab steps v tender front steps

iii) the alignment of loco numbering and tender lettering

[Roy L S]

Also compare with a photo of the real thing

i) relationship of running plate loco to tender

ii) the distance from ground to the bottom of the cab steps v tender front steps

iii) the alignment of loco numbering and tender lettering

 

Thanks for pointing it out. Assuming these are Rails' pics of the production model, the finish looks nice and no mistaking it is a B1, but I do agree the cab steps (Is it the whole loco body?) sits a touch high and I am surprised given the motion is not blackened that black screws have been used. As I mentioned on the Brit thread (There are pics of that up on Rails' site as well) I do not like the use of crosshead screws anyway but they would have been so much easier to live with if either they were chromed to match the rods or vice-verca.

 

No disrespect to the Dapol product intended when I say this, but having seen both now, for me the Farish one is the nicer model, and I shall still sit tight and wait for those to arrive. I am sure others will have the opposite view to mine, in which case hopefully both representations will find plenty of homes.

 

Fair do's to Dapol though, they got it out first.

 

 

Roy

[Karhedron]

The silver finish on the piston rods and motion does not sit that well with the black screwheads on all the driving wheels

I agree, it looked odd on the Ixion Manor and I hoped it was just a one off. Blackened motions are one of the big improvements over the old Poole-era Farish stuff. Going back to silver is a big step backwards IMHO. It makes it look like a toy rather than a scale model. The Brit on the same website looks to be the same.

 

Dave, why the change to silver motions?

[LH&JC]

And the unpainted wheels, I suppose they'll look better in the flesh and obviously after some painting & weathering.

[Dr Al]

Also compare with a photo of the real thing

i) relationship of running plate loco to tender

ii) the distance from ground to the bottom of the cab steps v tender front steps

 

I think the body is high/strange/not right as the cylinders look too tall - and as a result pretty heavy when combined with the chunkier looking motion and thicker chunkier rimmed wheels. It looks to me like some odd stretching has been done to accommodate this (front buffer beam looks taller than the photo of the real thing to me, but may be deceiving due to the white painted lining on the beam).

 

Compare the cylinders on this 3/4 view to the Rails 3/4 view:

 

http://kettlesgalore.fotopic.net/p62435557.html

 

A few more:

 

http://kettlesgalore.fotopic.net/p62435558.html

 

http://kettlesgalore.fotopic.net/p62435562.html

 

On the last note the height of the lower edge of the cab roof relative to the tender and compare with the Dapol model - something is definitely amiss on the body height to my eye, but what do folks think?

 

I'm afraid it doesn't capture the prototype for me, nothing like the Farish one which looks spot on to my eye. Shame as the Dapol one will almost certainly run better (and that's high praise as all the Farish stuff to date runs very well). I guess I can summarise by saying that the Dapol one looks too 'chunky' and doesn't capture the finesse of the prototype for me.

 

The Britannia looks little different to the pre-pro's reviewed on here, the wheels still are prominant as being unblackened (or only lightly blackened), same with the rods. However, this is an easy fix with a pot of paint and otherwise it looks fairly decent. Better than those old Minitrix models, though not quite living up to the hype for me!

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Dr Al]

And if your retailer doesn't parcel your B1 correctly before sending it may end up like this:

 

http://kettlesgalore.fotopic.net/p67470283.html

 

Prototype for everything...

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Dr Al]

Well I got mine tonight, and very pleased with it. It feels more durable than the B17, and on a quick run round my test track it ran very smoothly. Its not been run in, but its already as quiet as the quietest B17 I own. The valve gear does not appear to be as fine as the B17, even allowing for the shineyness against the black paint on the B17.

 

Interesting pictures. Confirms my feeling on the height and cylinders, that they don't look right to my eyes. The tender looks to sit a whisker lower than the B17's too which would further accentuate it. However, the wheels look better than I was expecting - really very good. Perhaps the LNER lining takes away from the rims being noticable, but it's making me reconsider what a Britannia would look like if it was properly painted up!

 

The bogie wheels look smaller than the B17's from the snaps but they should be the same diameter as both had 3'2" wheels. This assumes the B17 ones are correct of course. Looks also like the QC was missing there - is your front right bogie wheel missing a white line around the rim?

 

To my eyes the valve gear looks a bit chunky and lacks the fidelity of the B17, except for the expansion link and the motion bracket which look better. Of course the B17's crank pins are way better too.

 

Just doesn't capture the essence of the B1 to me. Making me reconsider the Brit though....

 

Cheers,

Alan

[9FFan]

I actually quite like the Dapol model.

 

Out of interest, will you be producing a preserved B1 to cater for us modern image modellers who wish to run a steam loco on our layouts?

 

PS. Love the Britannia. Got it earlier this week. Looks great. I am very happy with it.

[Roy L S]

 

It will be interesting to see what finish Dapol apply to the driving wheels on the BR version - will they be painted black, or have the same finish as the Britannia?

 

The BR black ones were supposed to have been with stockists by the end of October. I am keen to see whether any of the issues identified are less obvious on the BR model. Does anyone know what the hold up is and when we might expect to see them?

 

Roy

[Dr Al]

I am keen to see whether any of the issues identified are less obvious on the BR model.

Roy

 

Sadly IMHO I doubt a paint job will hide the issues for me - it just doesn't 'look' like a B1 with the heavy cylinders, low tender and loco sitting high. The Farish interpretation is a lot closer for me. Shame as the Dapol model will undoubtably run very very well if it's as good as the Britannia.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Roy L S]

Sadly IMHO I doubt a paint job will hide the issues for me - it just doesn't 'look' like a B1 with the heavy cylinders, low tender and loco sitting high. The Farish interpretation is a lot closer for me. Shame as the Dapol model will undoubtably run very very well if it's as good as the Britannia.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Hi Alan

 

I have only seen the microscopic "thumbnails" of the BR one. These seem to show the same issue with the wheel blacking that the Brit has and the relationship between the lining panel on the loco and that of the tender looks way out. This is not a surprise really given the issues you rightly point out, and it is hard to see how they could get the livery application correct given this.

 

The fact that they have not been released on time could of course be nothing more sinister than delays in shipment from the Far East, although I do wonder if it could be that these errors in the model have now been recognised and future released delayed as a consequence. All credit to Dapol if that is indeed the case. Interestingly, going back to the original CAD pics on the Dapol website: -

 

http://www.Dapol.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=504&Itemid=65

 

It looks like some of the anomalies may even have been there at the initial design stages (Loco height plus Cab side/tender side relationship and cylinder size) but it is hard to be totally sure from those angles.

 

Wait and see I guess.

 

Disappointing though that the Farish one, supposedly due 6-8 weeks after the N Gauge Show has not materialised yet, and according to the Bachmann website will now be arriving Dec/Jan. Hopefully it will be worth the wait!

 

Cheers

 

Roy

[Dr Al]

Looks like the Dapol BR B1s are out. The good news - it appears that the valve gear is blackened (possibly painted black in the same style as the B17s) but the wheels have the same finish as the Britannias. With the Britannia its a case of new Dapol with a lick of paint or the Minitrix version. So its the Dapol one then. But for B1s its the Farish one for me. I haven't opened it yet, but later on I'll compare them side-by-side.

 

Do you have examples of both Farish and Dapol, confused.com? I'd be interested to see how they compare, and where Dapol's has gone wrong (is it the cylinders and simply the ride height, or has there been something more obscure done? ).

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Butler Henderson]

Hattons have pictures of both the Dapol and Farish B1s - the side shots are interesting

 

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=33141

and

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=34587

[Roy L S]

Do you have examples of both Farish and Dapol, confused.com? I'd be interested to see how they compare, and where Dapol's has gone wrong (is it the cylinders and simply the ride height, or has there been something more obscure done? ).

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Looking at a picture of the Dapol BR one to which a link has been posted on the N Gauge "Yahoo Group", to me it looks as if the loco body sits too high relative to the tender. This causes the cab lining panel to be out relative to that on the tender (too high, and alignment of cab/tender handrails consequently too), also it causes the loco steps to be I would say over a mm higher than those of the tender wheras they should be level.

 

I'm not sure about the cylinders, are they too big or just too flat-sided? I suspect that the Farish ones may be slightly on the small side.

 

I have compared the said picture with my own Farish B1 picture side by side (Posted on RM Web Farish thread) this morning, and have to conclude that in so many ways the Farish model is better that there is really no comparison. Firstly proportionally it looks like a B1 should, then it has so much finer detail (e.g. in the cab and a tender fall-plate), nicer wheels and motion, better finished (The lining on the Dapol one is rather crude and thick, the Farish one so much finer by comparison).

 

The running Farish loco is superb, but I suspect this may at least be one area where the Dapol model excels too.

 

This is not a Dapol "Bash" before anyone jumps on the comments I have made it is just my conclusions based on a comparison not only of the two models, but also the prototype.

 

Roy

[Kris]

I feel that both manufactures could learn from each other. Dapol adding some extra detailing that the Farish model has. Farish should be looking at that coal load. The Dapol one is still large but nothing in comparison to the mountain that has been put in the Farish one.

[Roy L S]

I feel that both manufactures could learn from each other. Dapol adding some extra detailing that the Farish model has. Farish should be looking at that coal load. The Dapol one is still large but nothing in comparison to the mountain that has been put in the Farish one.

 

True, it is a very full coal-load on the Farish model. One of the disadvantages of a pure tender-drive is the need to house motor, drive-train and these days a DCC chip and still provide adequate traction-weight which I suspect is the reason. It also means that there is not the choice of depicting a loco with a nearly empty tender.

 

However on the plus-side pure tender-drive (As opposed to tender mounted motor providing loco drive) does allow for full cab detail (as the Farish loco has). Checking out some real B1 pics it is not unprototypical in some instances for the coal-load to be as depicted by either manufacturer's model, some certainly do have it piled high!

 

Different people will decide which model they prefer based on there own criteria. For some loco-drive is a "must" and they will almost certainly pick the Dapol model. Others like me will choose the Farish loco for the reasons I have already stated above and undoubtedly others will choose for totally different reasons of their own.

 

One thing is for sure, either model makes even my best effort at a Langley B1 (Which I thought really quite good) look far less impressive!

 

Regards

 

Roy

[Guest Belgian]

Looking at the Hattons pictures I can see merits in both models, where each outshines the other.

The Farish one seems to have a superior boiler and cab detail whilst the Dapol one has a superior tender and far nicer wheels, especially the bogie wheels which are horrendous on the Farish one. However, I'm not in the market for either!

 

JE

[Portpatrick]

I looked at an example of the BR version of both on the Plus Daughters stand at Letchworth today. To be honest I saw little to choose between them, albeit they were both in the box. I may go for a Farish when the weathered one appears. That said the coal load is a moinor turn off.

 

On the Dapol the colour of the wheels and valve gear looked acceptable - unlike the Model Rail review version of the Brit. The valve gear did seem finer on Farish. I may wait for the reviews. But I may carry on running my Langley kit!