Spelling, punctuation and handwriting

[Fat Controller]

Old Marcel might have made a good modeller- he was certainly obsessive enough, and did seem to have a lot of time on his hands. Perhaps Continental Modeller will feature his 'La Madeleine' one day...

I would not have the temerity to criticise anyone's handwriting, as my own has been compared to the efforts of a drunken, arthritic, spider which had fallen in an inkwell- to that end, the keyboard is a blessing both to myself and to the recipients of my correspondence.

The comments about Caroline Spelman's use of 'management-English' (perhaps we could name it 'manglish') amused me. This is a language whose primary purpose is to show that the user has at least attended a course on 'Communication', and is really more to with obfuscation. This used to be put more succinctly as 'Baffling them with B******t'. It is, I fear, a global problem, as even non-English speakers are given to dropping these words and phrases into conversation and text. Some of the excellent Donna Leon books about Inspector Brunetti feature a sort of 'bingo', played by those unfortunate enough to be briefed by the local exponent- his meetings being punctuated by baffling noises as someone completes a line of 'buzz-words'.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

'He was like...', 'It was like...', 'She was like...', They were like...' You hear it all the time...the product of back-to-back Friends for the last 15 years or so. Even worse is 'It was sooo like'; Aaaagggghhhh!

 

I'm afraid I am sometimes guilty of the lack of proof reading, especially when writing one of my essays. The becomes teh (a really common mistype), this become thsi etc. etc. A common occurrence is the interchangeable spelling of their, there and they're. The big problem here is that spell check won't pick them up as they are spelt correctly...just in the wrong context.

 

Centre vs. center is probably a result of the English (UK) vs. English (US) setting in Word; symptomatic (as with their/there/they're) of an over reliance of this infernal functionality. It is the grammar check that really gets me...I like to think I am educated enough to be able to string a sentence together without Mr Gates' creation telling me that I have a 'fragment' or some sort of verb disagreement.

 

When I was at school, we were told that spelling was not important...indeed this seemed to be a common thread throughout my education into degree level (that said spelling really does not matter when you consider handwriting as incomprehensible as mine!). It has only become a must at work; where I write a lot of technical documents and requirement specifications. A badly written document does matter and will have a negative impact.

 

Final point....can something be really unique?

 

 

[Worsdell forever]

Final point....can something be really unique?

 

 

 

 

Is that like being 'almost exactly similar'?

[Adrian]

Yes, that is an issue which was championed for many years by the late Keith Waterhouse, who was the founder and main protagonist of the Association for the Abolition of the Aberrant Apostrophe.

 

Useful guides to educate and illuminate.

 

How to use an apostrophe.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe

 

How to use a semicolon.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon

 

Ten words you need to stop misspelling

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

 

To the slightly more sureal; 8 ways to prepare your pet for war.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pets_war

[Worsdell forever]

My pet hate is people (normally students, Nottingham is overrun with them) who randomly insert the word "like" in to conversations.

 

"So I was, like, talking to her, and she was like "yeah!", so I was like, "No way!"".

 

 

"No way, he turned her down right? She's like, well fit!"

 

B)

[cb900f]

Good one Colin

I supposedly read it, to make sure.

 

Pete

[Oldfield_Park]

I may be one of the youngsters around here, but I like to see a decent display of spelling if at all possible. Unlike many of my friends at University, I didn't have the benefit of a private education. In comparison to their spelling abilities, however, I might as well have gone to Eton. These people all gained a higher degree than I did as well. The 'quality' of your education is of little consequence these days in this department. Personally I'm content to have had an average but challenging educational experience which hasn't resulted in a single 'A' grade (I must be one of the few), yet has allowed me to wander out into the world with the ability to string a few words together.

 

I just think it's a shame that spelling abilities aren't held in such high regard these days. If a manager can't spell, then they won't employ an office junior who can, as they'll feel threatened. Maybe that explains my job-hunting difficulties.

[Guest dilbert]

Sorry Kenton but I do care, the american english now creeping into our everyday spelling really gets my goat ie center for centre. We have adopted too many american ideas already and I draw the line at modifyiny our spelling. However, having just returned from a holiday in the US, I can now understand why. How they allegedly landed on the moon I will never know.

 

However "center " is the most logical spelling choice, rather than using the heavily French influenced "centre" - interesting to note that the verb "to enter" in English is not spelt as "to entre".

 

One of the difficulties of the English language relates to the number of exceptions to a standard rule ; dictation tests (do they still exist ?) bear this out ...

 

How would you write the following as pronounced .....?

 

rough

cough

though

trough

through

plough

dough

tough

bough

enough

 

(and there are several others words in the same vein....)

 

I blame the mobule operators for destroying the written word - part of the problem of txtspeke derives from the original billing of txt msgs by the character....

 

As for punkutation, aaarrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh...dilbert

 

PS and when in agreement with an opinion et al, "hear, hear" is much better than "here, here" for non-canine bipeds:P

[GeoffR]

Yeh, this topic is awesome, dude!

 

One of my (many) pet hates, UK TV announcers and 'personalities' who pronounce schedule the American' shhh' rather than the English 'sk'.

[Sir Balin]

You can never be too careful! Some years ago, I was secretary to a government quango. Each year I had to compile the annual report, for presentation to Parliament. This involved days of discussion, to ensure that the detail was accurate, spelling and grammar spot on, and basically that it was faultless - not helped by the fact that the document included a Gaelic translation of the English text, which was a proof-reading nightmare.One year, the report having been written to the satisfaction of committee members, it was sent to the printing company in Glasgow. Unfortunately, the slides for the cover photographs were delayed, so I arranged for them to be sent direct to the printer.

 

A few days later, my 'phone rings. "Hello Ian, we've got the photographs ready, what do you want us to use for the captions?" "Just caption the front one 'The Forth Railway Bridge by night' and the rear one 'Calmac's latest ferry for Western Isles Services', that will do fine."

 

A couple of weeks later, several hundred copies are delivered, and duly dispatched. Only later in the day did I have time to look at a copy, to find that the printer had produced my caption to the front cover as 'The Fourth Railway Bridge by night'.

 

Needless to say, our press conference was a hoot, but I still have nightmares! I felt a little better when a shop opened in town called 'Quid's In' - I was often tempted to go in and ask if I could meet him.

 

 

Ian

[Kenton]

The reason why there is trouble using "its" and "its"

 

is the rather daft rules of the language where

"Fred's hat" is correct, it stands for ownership by Fred

"Monday's weather" is correct when something belongs to Monday

But "It's" is incorrect because it stands for "It is" ... but what about the belongings of It ? It's rules.

 

The english language has evolved over the years to become the most difficult language to learn. Just because we have learned to use the rules doesn't mean that they should not be simplified for others. The english language is no longer ther prerogative of the english and its (there we go again) empire, it is now used internationally to communicate. We should still think ourselves lucky that the international language is not German, Russian, Japanese or, as yet, Chinese.

[Kenton]

Yeh, this topic is awesome, dude!

 

One of my (many) pet hates, UK TV announcers and 'personalities' who pronounce schedule the American' shhh' rather than the English 'sk'.

But why? We cannot even agree on our own pronunciations

For example how do you pronounce

Bath - is it as in 'a'pple or is it as in 'aut'omobile

scone - as in 'on' or as in 'own' and many other examples across engligh dialects.

Berkshire ? as in "bark" or as in "berk" ...

[Dagworth]

 

My downfall was "i before e except after c",

But only when the sound is Ee

 

and thus not.

as in their, science........

[298]

It's not just on t'interweb, there is a secret and growing band of "Grammar Nazis" at work who find it quite annoying that every single notice that is posted, item in the news bulletin, or even e-mails from certain "supposedly clever and highly paid" mambers of staff contain such basic errors that the authors were clearly pre-occupied so much as to not bother checking what they've written, or lack the basic skills to form a properly constructed sentence. Signwriters must have made an absolute fortune out of the factory, I did hear that one company would copy verbatim the instructions for a new sign, deliver and fit it, then go away laughing because they knew they'd get a call within the week that someone has pointed out "Line 6 Personal use only" is clearly wrong, and can they make a corrected one...?

 

If I had the time, i'd really like to take A level English. It sounds like there could be an opening for a Technical Author, and when i've been asked why i'm such an authority on rewriting other people's garbage, telling them how much i've earnt from magazine articles usually shuts them up.

[BTC]

The Americans have a lot to blame for our spelling. Especially the misuse of 'z'. Particularly as the default spell checker is US english. But again, I don't really care that much except when the words have totally different meaning (pavement, boot, ...), though even then the british english is not without its duplication of words with different meanings.

 

Careful: -ize is an acceptable form of spelling in British English - it is sometimes known as the "Oxford Spelling" as it is the form that the Oxford English Dictionary uses. Go back 200 years and you'll find it was commonplace here.

 

And whats this brought instead of bought. By the way my English master always said you should not start a sentence with and.

 

I think that's one of those rules that is not hard-and-fast but is taught so to kids so that they don't abuse it. And I think that is a good thing.

[Dagworth]

It's not just on t'interweb, there is a secret and growing band of "Grammar Nazis" at work who find it quite annoying that every single notice that is posted, item in the news bulletin, or even e-mails from certain "supposedly clever and highly paid" mambers of staff contain such basic errors that the authors were clearly pre-occupied so much as to not bother checking what they've written, or lack the basic skills to form a properly constructed sentence. Signwriters must have made an absolute fortune out of the factory, I did hear that one company would copy verbatim the instructions for a new sign, deliver and fit it, then go away laughing because they knew they'd get a call within the week that someone has pointed out "Line 6 Personal use only" is clearly wrong, and can they make a corrected one...?

 

If I had the time, i'd really like to take A level English. It sounds like there could be an opening for a Technical Author, and when i've been asked why i'm such an authority on rewriting other people's garbage, telling them how much i've earnt from magazine articles usually shuts them up.

 

 

Andi (C at O level in English language)

[Fenman]

I am constantly surprised by the inability of the young to spell or punctuate......and also by the poor vocabulary of most.

 

Sorry, but I couldn't resist: I thought an ellipsis (...) was meant to be only three dots...?

 

I came across a delightful example of a spelling error leading to an error of meaning in David Wragg's book Commuter City: How the Railways Shaped London, which refers to "handsome cabs". Whilst some of them may well have been smart-looking, surely that can't be right?

 

Paul

[BTC]

"I should of thought of that".

 

Grrrr

[Oldddudders]

If I had the time, i'd really like to take A level English. It sounds like there could be an opening for a Technical Author, and when i've been asked why i'm such an authority on rewriting other people's garbage, telling them how much i've earnt from magazine articles usually shuts them up.

In my day (1964-66) English A level was strictly literature only - there didn't seem to be any option above O level for language. But then I am aware that school subjects are much more varied and accommodating these days. My school had invested heavily in science facilities - such as they were back then - & the headmaster was unimpressed if there were insufficient 6th-formers to make max use. He didn't want too many arts students, thanks very much!

[martin_wynne]

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me. Just don't ask me to fill out a form instead of filling it in, that's all.

 

[edcayton]

reports of conversations

 

"well he goes and she goes" or "so I turned around and said"

 

 

Ed

[Oldddudders]

"I should of thought of that".

 

Grrrr

The late Richard Whiteley (sp?) was a great champion of blitzing that error, which comes from a fundamental lack of understanding of how English is constructed, on Countdown. But I suspect that the would-of, could-of, should-of set were unable to make much of the letters anyway, so he was largely preaching to the converted, sadly.

 

Unfortunately, given that we all went to school, failure to understand has to be traced back to a failure to be educated properly, not necessarily the fault of the pupil, or even the teacher. That said, not all teachers are created equally gifted, and one has heard tales from within the teaching community of younger teachers on the career path whose grasp of English was imperfect, which may not be seen to matter, given the present emphasis at senior level on managing budgets rather than merely educating. Add that to the "spelling doesn't matter" attitude, and the use of language may not be improving in the next few generations.

[bluebottle]

The reason why there is trouble using "its" and "its"

 

is the rather daft rules of the language where

"Fred's hat" is correct, it stands for ownership by Fred

"Monday's weather" is correct when something belongs to Monday

But "It's" is incorrect because it stands for "It is" ... but what about the belongings of It ? It's rules.

 

 

 

The rule in this case being that the apostrophe must not be used with the possessive of pronouns. For example, one might say "Freda's hat", but not "her's hat". "The locomotive's cab" but not "It's cab". Mind you, I always get that one right because I can still hear my old primary school teacher bellowing in my ear: "Nothing can belong to it!!!" Sometimes these old teaching methods are more effective...

[Kenton]

Add that to the "spelling doesn't matter" attitude, and the use of language may not be improving in the next few generations.

But the point is, that it probably doesn't matter to them, or even, they may actually think it will be improving.

 

Those that seem to care or be bothered by the progressive changes are predominantly of the old generation, and quite likely be as much history as Olde English is now.

 

As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink" and is just what teaching is about. You can teach a child the rules of a particular language but the independent mind will make what use of the rules it chooses. Fortunately, the only penalty for ignoring the current generation's rules of language is for some, usually a later generation, to misunderstand what is being written or said.

 

The next generation forming its own rules probably could not care less that the previous generations understand as long as they can communicate among themselves.

[298]

 

Andi (C at O level in English language)

 

LOL...!!

 

You mean 7/10, could do better