Building a U from parts of a Wills engine

[Blandford1969]

I've watched with interest lots of other builds and thought that actually posting a build will help me to get it finished.

 

The engine requested is 31618 as running in June 1961, by which time it had got AWS. I have 2 great photos from a peco publication of about 1968 that clearly show the engine, which is always a good start. My friend gave me a South Eastern Finecast kit which got burried in boxes so i found out a Wills kit, partly assembled, which turned out to be from 1961.

 

The chassis will be a SEF U one which are loveley

 

Now my challenge is to make this into a reasonable engine, the problems i see are as follows

1) The tender is wrong for the engine and no one makes one at a reasonable cost (so that will be a scratch build)

2) The cab and spectacle plate look awful, to my eyes so will have to be repaced

3) The smoke deflectors have got to be in brass.

4) 31618 had a modified boiler with additional washout plugs which are missing from the casting.

5) The smokebox should be rivetted, which is easily solved.

 

So here you see the Wills engine after being taken to bits, but before i have started cleaning it up.

 

I have made a start with the cab. I thought get that out of the way and then sort out the tender followed by the chassis and finally come back and put it all together. We will see and what you all think of my efforts

 

The other part today is the cab, which i have drawn up together with smoke deflectors on paper and then pasted onto some scrap brass.

Here you can see the begining of the cab, I started with a small hole drilled and then used a file to open it out till i got it done and then moved onto the cab sides. I have worked from the Ian Beattie drawing so I hope it works out ok, time will tell.

 

Well thats it for now, I'm affraid this will not be quick as either the Coach or Metropolitan, who I take my hat off to, but with your encouragement, hopefully it will be finished for Christmas.

 

I'm off next to finish cutting out the cab sides and spend time on preparing the boiler and making cuts into the running plate for the splashers, which are usefully in the SEF chassis kit.

[GC Jack]

Looks like a great project will watch with interest:rolleyes:

 

Jack

[bike2steam]

Did the same about 20 years ago, if I remember correctly the Wills kit is for the N, which means cutting out the gaps in the running plate, and fabricating splashers for a U-boat, I scratch built the chassis (different wheel centres to the N) have fun.

[Blandford1969]

your right about having fun, I've just had the footplate break while cutting out the gaps for the splashers!

 

A bit of soldering and a brass shim should sort it out and make it look better as well! more to come tommorow (If my step son lets me get any time on it, he's building his first whitemetal kit of a Jinty so that's taking up time as well.

 

Fortunatley the SEF chassis is now provided for the U which saves on the scratchbuilding I have never tried to do a chassis and without a milling machine would be nervous.

[DLT]

Good to see some more Southern steam, I will be following this build with interest.

 

Best of luck,

Dave.T

[Blandford1969]

Thanks Dave, your builds have been a good kick to get on with this one.

 

Cutting away the cab was nice and easy, but when I came to cutting out for the spashers my 1961 vintage running plate on one side gave way.

 

The simple answer was solder it back together as can be seen below, i will tidy this up, even though it won't be seen.

 

Of course now the top of the running plate looked wrong so i have cut out two peices of shim and superglued them onto the top. I have also fabricated a new buffer beam (forgot to take a photo) and have used some nice turned brass buffers on it as requested.

 

While cutting out i also noticed that at the smokebox end the running plate turns up a little way under the smokebox, so with more whitemetal cut out, I have also added another piece of brass onto which i can add a saddle.

 

Having done this, the next job is adding a shim wrapper onto the smokebox, getting rid of the oversize boiler bands and drilling out for the new washout plugs.

[Blandford1969]

More progress this morning, i have cleaned up the boiler prior to drilling and added a riveted smokebox wrapper from brass shim.

 

 

Now I'm off to solder the cab together and fet out a saddle for the front.

[Horsetan]

Oddly enough, I recently sent an e-mail to David Andrews (of 7mm loco kit fame), asking whether he might consider making his new-build "U" class available as an etch set in 4mm scale to help correct the errors in the SEF kit / update the DJH one. He already has etch sets for some of his engines available to order in Gauge 1, so I had a bit of a lateral think.....

 

.....The chassis will be a SEF U one which are lovely....

 

Designed by the late Alistair Rolfe (who did a lot of artwork for the Brassmasters LMS loco kits) - you won't go wrong! Pity he didn't go all the way and include P4 spacers, only EM ones.

 

..... the problems i see are as follows

....

2) The cab and spectacle plate look awful, to my eyes so will have to be replaced.....

 

.....I have worked from the Ian Beattie drawing so I hope it works out ok......

 

Which Beattie drawing are you using? If it's the one from his old book "Southern Locomotives To Scale", then be aware that the cab front in that one is completely wrong, since it depicts the spectacle plate used on the "N" class and the "U"s that were rebuilt from the "River" tanks. The very big problem for "U" modellers is that there are currently no reliable drawings out there (Roche is wrong, as is Skinley) unless you're able to get copies of the works drawings from the NRM.

 

Other pitfalls: look at the front buffer beam, which on the Wills/SEF composite kit is the wrong shape for a new-build "U"; it should have clearly triangular ends, not the "N" class trapezoidal ones. This may also have implications for the width of your footplate.

 

The curved "drop" of the new-build "U" cabsides at their lower edge is not quite the same as the "N". That means the footplate casting in this area would also be wrong.

[Blandford1969]

Which Beattie drawing are you using? If it's the one from his old book "Southern Locomotives To Scale", then be aware that the cab front in that one is completely wrong, since it depicts the spectacle plate used on the "N" class and the "U"s that were rebuilt from the "River" tanks. The very big problem for "U" modellers is that there are currently no reliable drawings out there (Roche is wrong, as is Skinley) unless you're able to get copies of the works drawings from the NRM.

 

Yes I was uding that drawing, mmmm, not quite sure where to go,I am using partly that and partly details from a 3mm U class kit i found details of in the internet. I felt the windows looked right (I copied the pattern from a DJH U i have got to build for myself (hopefully not a mistake). However having soldered up the cab I have made it about 1.5mm too long, so it will have to come to bits and be shortened.

 

Other pitfalls: look at the front buffer beam, which on the Wills/SEF composite kit is the wrong shape for a new-build "U"; it should have clearly triangular ends, not the "N" class trapezoidal ones. This may also have implications for the width of your footplate.

Not sure what you mean by triangular ends, again I have worked from photos in the peco publication, I will take a shot and then put on line for you all to look at. I've also now added a fillet of whitemetal to extend backwards under the smokebox and made myself a saddle front (there was a hole as a fitting from the original chassis.

 

The curved "drop" of the new-build "U" cabsides at their lower edge is not quite the same as the "N". That means the footplate casting in this area would also be wrong.

Daft question, how much different is the drop and is it easily changed, if not I think the friend I am building her for will be ok with her. I'm also contemplating starting on the chassis while also building my stepsons Jinty chassis from a Perserverance fret.

[Blandford1969]

I've now realised what you mean on the buffer beam, and yes i had got it wrong, fortunatley that's fairly easy to solve!

[Horsetan]

Which Beattie drawing are you using? If it's the one from his old book "Southern Locomotives To Scale", then be aware that the cab front in that one is completely wrong, since it depicts the spectacle plate used on the "N" class and the "U"s that were rebuilt from the "River" tanks. The very big problem for "U" modellers is that there are currently no reliable drawings out there (Roche is wrong, as is Skinley) unless you're able to get copies of the works drawings from the NRM.

 

Yes I was using that drawing, mmmm, not quite sure where to go,I am using partly that and partly details from a 3mm U class kit i found details of in the internet. I felt the windows looked right (I copied the pattern from a DJH U i have got to build for myself (hopefully not a mistake). ....

 

The DJH "U" cab front is correct in terms of spectacle plates. My theory is that it is the same width as the "N" class one, but works drawings would confirm or deny this.

 

Other pitfalls: look at the front buffer beam, which on the Wills/SEF composite kit is the wrong shape for a new-build "U"; it should have clearly triangular ends, not the "N" class trapezoidal ones. This may also have implications for the width of your footplate.

Not sure what you mean by triangular ends, again I have worked from photos in the peco publication, I will take a shot and then put on line for you all to look at.....

 

If you look at the outside ends of the buffer beam of an "N" class, note the shape of the metal between the outside of the buffer base and the outside of the footplate. You will see that this is roughly 4-sided / trapezoidal.

 

However, the new-build "U" class is triangular in this area, and that suggests to me that the footplate / running plate is narrower than the "N", assuming that the buffer centre lines are identically spaced:

 

"N"-class buffer beam here

 

"new-build" U-class buffer beam here

 

The curved "drop" of the new-build "U" cabsides at their lower edge is not quite the same as the "N". That means the footplate casting in this area would also be wrong.

Daft question, how much different is the drop and is it easily changed, if not I think the friend I am building her for will be ok with her. ....

 

Compare the cabside and footplate section side-views between the "N" and the new-build "U" - the latter has a steeper, squarer "drop":

 

"N"-class cabside here

 

New-build "U" cabside here and here

 

It is a matter of inches, really. But when you notice the difference, it will become all too obvious.

 

I am curious to see what David Andrews will make of my etch set query, as this could be a useful way of correcting the deficiencies in the SEF castings.

[Blandford1969]

Cheers for that, I have now corrected the buffer beam and my cab is the width of the N one, however i am a bit nervous about trying to alter the depth, especially as the cab i have cut out fits the drop perfectly, however i can clearly see what you mean, so i will ponder it especially as i am less confident about making that change.

 

Now if the Dave Andrews etches were available in 4mm that would be quite a beast.

[Horsetan]

....Now if the Dave Andrews etches were available in 4mm that would be quite a beast.

 

I also asked about the possibility of the 3500 and 4000 gallon tenders as 4mm etch sets, after seeing your original post.

 

Thing is, with all the hard work that has been done in 7mm scale over recent years, reducing them to 4mm scale etch part-sets gives quite a lot of potential to correct or upgrade existing older kits, without necessarily going to the expense of a full-blown kit.

 

It would aim for the best of both worlds: whitemetal castings for the heavy bits (boiler, smokebox, firebox) and etched metal for "thin areas" (cab and footplate being the best examples, and maybe even a chassis as well if the original is weak or has design flaws).

[Horsetan]

UPDATE: I've now had a reply from Dave Andrews.

 

It's a "no".

 

Oh well, worth a try anyway....*sigh*

[Blandford1969]

UPDATE: I've now had a reply from Dave Andrews.

 

It's a "no".

 

Oh well, worth a try anyway....*sigh*

 

That's a shame as I'm sure it would sell. Not much progress today with a trip out to Chester. However the cab has now been shortened by 2mm to the correct lenght, the photo shows the cab part way through filing it back after soldering it in the correct place.

 

 

The buffer beam is ready to go on and i have cut out a saddle for under the smokebox.

 

Hopefully tommorow I will get the cab and boiler trial mounted on the running plate and maybe solder the chassis together.

[2ManySpams]

Any more on this build?

[Blandford1969]

Hi,

 

Sorry i've not been able to get much done in the last few weeks apart from some work on scratbuilding a tender for the loco.

 

Will take some photos of progress and post them this evening.

 

Kind regards

 

Duncan

[2ManySpams]

Smashing - looking forward to watching progress