Kadee Couplers

[tractor_37260]

Here are a few more pictures.

 

kadee_6.jpg

 

The height gauge is the plastic one so I can leave it in situ without risk of shorting. As can be seen in the other pictures it is sitting on the rails clear of the sleepers and the uncoupling magnet can also be seen. I've not altered anything since the earlier pictures other than placing the gauge adjacent to the magnet and moving wagons to take the pictures.

 

kadee_7.jpg

 

This is the other wagon - the one with the sagging coupling

 

kadee_8.jpg

 

Hopefully showing that the gauge is sitting on the rails.

 

kadee_9.jpg

 

And from the rear of the gauge.

 

The Kadee "metal" gauge #205 also has a sliding pin that checks the height of magnets between the rail heads, but must only be used with the POWER OFF !

[ejstubbs]

So does the #206 insulated gauge.

[Ray H]

I only positioned the height gauge that close to the magnet for the photographs, the intent being to show the comparison between the height of the coupling against that of the gauge whilst showing the effect on the coupling as it passes over the magnet. The gauge is usually at the end of the siding and the uncoupler about twelve inches before it.

 

I shall remove the card spacer under the magnet and revert to using the code 75 rail for setting up. I did wonder why I'd need to use code 100 when the gauge appeared to be sitting firmly on the code 75 but I wanted to rule out anything that might have been causing my problems.

 

Further experiments are planned for the weekend with the results added to this thread thereafter.

[Dungrange]

I don't think the rail height should matter (code 100 or code 75) provided the underside of the gauge is resting on the rail and the locating pins are not touching the chairs (and causing it to be lifted slightly).  It is obvious in the images with code 100 rail that there is a space betwen the gauge and the chairs, but it is less obvious that this is the case with the gauge sitting on code 75 rail.  There may well be a small gap, but it's not clear in the photographs that you posted.

[ejstubbs]

Kadee sell a drill and tap set that includes a through-hole drill and a drill for tapping (#246). The sizes are Imperial, 2-56, but suitable screws can be obtained (I just did a Google search). I got the type that uses an Allen key, much easier to handle.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361384057282?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Screws from

http://www.accu.co.uk/en/

 

According to this table, 2-56 is a coarse thread (56 tpi) #2 diameter screw.  #2 diameter is 2.18mm major diameter, so an M2 will fit - and I can confirm that an M2 is a very slightly loose fit through the mounting hole in the Kadee draft box.  It looks like an M2.2 would be a snug fit, but I don't have one to hand to try.

 

These people http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/ look like a good source of small size self-tapping and machine screws, and they also do corresponding drill & tap sizes if you'd prefer to avoid using self-tapping screws, or drilling through and using a nut.  If nothing else, their web site is easier to navigate than an eBay search results list.  I intend to place a trial order for some bits and bobs from them shortly.  Eileen's Emporium may also have suitable screws and taps, they are usually a good source of odds and ends like that.

 

If you do want to use Kadee's 2-56 machine screws, having just checked the price from Gaugemaster, the Kadee drill & tap set #246 actually looks sensibly priced.

 

Are these the nylon screws in the pack. What works is an 8BA tap if you already have one. It shouldn't work, but it does!

 

Edit to add.

Try it out on a thick piece of Plastikard.

 

8BA is 2.2mm major diameter, 59.17tpi, so the diameter is OK but the tpi is smidge finer than the 2-56.  So long as the tapped material is reasonably soft - eg polystyrene or white metal - then it should be OK, assuming that both the screw and the receiving material will 'give' a bit.  If the receiving material is significantly harder than the nylon screw then I expect you'd end up trashing the thread on the screw 

 

EJ Stubbs, Self-Appointed President of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Screw Threads and Heads (SPCSTH)

Edited February 11, 2016 by ejstubbs

[Dungrange]

A quick question for those who use the #14X couplers in the #242 draft gearbox.  Does the rear of the draft box serve any purpose or could it be cut away if necessary?  I'm looking at these as the likely candidates to affix to the Bachmann 158, but notice that there is a body screw around 11 mm back from the front valance, which ideally I don't want to cover up (hence the potential need to remove part of the back of the draft box).

 

It looks like an over-set coupler would be preferred in this instance, although I'm undecided on the length.  All of the dimension data seems to be from center of the pivot to the rear of the knuckle whereas I'd actually like to know the distance from the part of the knuckle that needs to sit forward of the gangway doors to the rear of the draft gear box.  Does anyone know if this data is published?  I'm assuming at the moment that the pivot point is in the middle of the draft box and I can measure the knuckle on one of the NEM couplings to calculate the required distance.  

[Dunsignalling]

A quick question for those who use the #14X couplers in the #242 draft gearbox.  Does the rear of the draft box serve any purpose or could it be cut away if necessary?  I'm looking at these as the likely candidates to affix to the Bachmann 158, but notice that there is a body screw around 11 mm back from the front valance, which ideally I don't want to cover up (hence the potential need to remove part of the back of the draft box).

 

It looks like an over-set coupler would be preferred in this instance, although I'm undecided on the length.  All of the dimension data seems to be from center of the pivot to the rear of the knuckle whereas I'd actually like to know the distance from the part of the knuckle that needs to sit forward of the gangway doors to the rear of the draft gear box.  Does anyone know if this data is published?  I'm assuming at the moment that the pivot point is in the middle of the draft box and I can measure the knuckle on one of the NEM couplings to calculate the required distance.  

Yes, it's OK. I did it on several Bachmann 16-ton minerals when I ran out of #252 boxes. 

 

I used a round file to make a recess in the back (and on the lid) to clear the body screws. That avoids the need to shorten the sides which can result in the lid no longer clipping on if you overdo it.

 

Check out the diagrams on the www.kadee.com for exact measurements, you'll probably need the #149 long overset coupler for the job you mention.

 

John

Edited February 12, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Pacific231G]

Has anyone had any experience of shortening Kadee above track magnets? . I'm using a barrow crossing to disguise two of them (the other three are disguised as a level crossing and are fine) but with the magnets at full length the crossing was just too wide so I need to lose 10mm from each of the two magnets.

 

 

 

I've done this in the past, halving them rather than taking a bit off then, but I can't remember the trick. I think I may have held it very firmly in the jaws of a vice, made a saw cut top and bottom and then either used heavy pliars or a smart blow with a hammer to break it at the cut. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Pacific231G]

Here are a few more pictures.

 

kadee_6.jpg

 

The height gauge is the plastic one so I can leave it in situ without risk of shorting. As can be seen in the other pictures it is sitting on the rails clear of the sleepers and the uncoupling magnet can also be seen. I've not altered anything since the earlier pictures other than placing the gauge adjacent to the magnet and moving wagons to take the pictures.

 

kadee_7.jpg

 

This is the other wagon - the one with the sagging coupling

 

kadee_8.jpg

 

Hopefully showing that the gauge is sitting on the rails.

 

kadee_9.jpg

 

And from the rear of the gauge.

It looks as though your magnet is slightly higher at the right hand end. I have the metal setting gauge and keep it with this test track that lives in my rolling stock maintance box along with the Kadee pliers and various other tools and potions.

 

The setting gauge isn't permanently fixed to the test track as I also use it to check magnet heights on the layout. I usually just slide it up and down the track to make sure the register pin stays flush with the surface of the gauge.

 

Drooping couplings with NEM boxes are a real pain. The problem is that, though MOROP specify the box's dimensions very precisely and Kadee couplers are also very precisely made, some manufacturers of European and British rolling stock are far less fussy than others; the depth of the box in particular is too great and way out of spec. so the coupler head droops. A lot of my NEM boxes have shims supporting the coupler shank and with a few I've even had to support the whole box with a staple pushed into the floor of the wagon.

 

I tend to see the Kadee pliers as a last resort because if you have to adjust the pin too much, the coupler head will be too high or low. Kadees are a bit sensitive to that and tend to uncouple when you don't want them to if the heads are not close to being the same height. I've yet to find a new Kadee coupler where the pin wasn't precisely the right length so having to adjust it invariably means that the coupler head is at the wrong height. .  

Edited March 30, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Dunsignalling]

Has anyone had any experience of shortening Kadee above track magnets? . I'm using a barrow crossing to disguise two of them (the other three are disguised as a level crossing and are fine) but with the magnets at full length the crossing was just too wide so I need to lose 10mm from each of the two magnets.

IMG_5720.JPG

 

 

 

I've done this in the past, halving them rather than taking a bit off then, but I can't remember the trick. I think I may have held it very firmly in the jaws of a vice, made a saw cut top and bottom and then either used heavy pliars or a smart blow with a hammer to break it at the cut. 

Your technique is spot-on; good support is critical.

 

Anything less generally results in a ragged cut (at best) or the magnet breaking into several pieces.

 

John

[roundhouse]

Rather than use shims (which is a good and well proven method) I tend to use canopy glue to set the NEM Kadee into such loose NEM boxes. Either the item of stock gets turned up side down or the bottom of the pin is shimmed up till it has set.

 

If the coupler requires removing then the canopy glue can be peeled off.

[johnb]

It looks as though your magnet is slightly higher at the right hand end. I have the metal setting gauge and keep it with this test track that lives in my rolling stock maintance box along with the Kadee pliers and various other tools and potions.

 

IMG_5722.JPG

IMG_5723.JPG

The setting gauge isn't permanently fixed to the test track as I also use it to check magnet heights on the layout. I usually just slide it up and down the track to make sure the register pin stays flush with the surface of the gauge.

 

Drooping couplings with NEM boxes are a real pain. The problem is that, though MOROP specify the box's dimensions very precisely and Kadee couplers are also very precisely made, some manufacturers of European and British rolling stock are far less fussy than others; the depth of the box in particular is too great and way out of spec. so the coupler head droops. A lot of my NEM boxes have shims supporting the coupler shank and with a few I've even had to support the whole box with a staple pushed into the floor of the wagon.

 

I tend to see the Kadee pliers as a last resort because if you have to adjust the pin too much, the coupler head will be too high or low. Kadees are a bit sensitive to that and tend to uncouple when you don't want them to if the heads are not close to being the same size. I've yet to find a new Kadee coupler where the pin wasn't precisely the right length so having to adjust it invariably means that the coupler head is at the wrong height. .  

Agree with the above.

 

True in recent years the trip pin has almost always been correct, but it was not always the case. Certainly I have in the past had a pack or two where the trip pins were too low.

 

John

 

edited for keyboard that can't spell

Edited March 3, 2016 by johnb

[Pacific231G]

Your technique is spot-on; good support is critical.

 

Anything less generally results in a ragged cut (at best) or the magnet breaking into several pieces.

 

John

Do you recommend the pliars or the hammer?

[Dunsignalling]

Do you recommend the pliars or the hammer?

IIRC I used my trusty old Mole Grips last time I did it.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Ray H]

Thanks chaps for the ongoing support.

 

The apparent slight difference in height may be an optical illusion or could be caused by the magnet being re-seated on a sleeper either with a remnant of superglue remaining on the magnet or on one of the sleepers the magnet is sitting on.

 

I've been diverted by other things quite a bit recently but have managed to get three wagons fitted. I am still struggling with reliable uncoupling but that may be down to the wagons being too light as mentioned above. It has also been suggested to me that the couplings shouldn't be mounted along the centre line of the wagons. Instead they should be angled very slightly outwards to give the pin a better chance of being attracted by the (edge of the) magnet. I haven't tried this yet and could see the wisdom of doing so although I'm not sure how this could be done with the (all but) automatically centred NEM pocket mounted versions.

[johnb]

I also model US HO and use Kadees there. I started by using the between track magnets and in one instance the under track. BUT, before too long I ignored that and simply use an uncoupling tool. In my case it's a pointed kebab stick! However any fine pointed slightly rough surfaced implement will do. Just slip between the Kadees twiddle slightly whilst pushing down a trifle, the couplers will part and there you are.

Takes a few minutes practice but is quite manageable with one hand while working the controller with the other.

I like it so much that I use the same system for my UK shunting. I use it at shows and my operators are quite adept at it. Finding it far less of a fiddle than to-ing and fro-ing over magnets.

 

John

Edited March 3, 2016 by johnb

[roundhouse]

I use the under train Kadee magnets and cut them in half with a knife as they are rubber based once the steel backing plate has been removed first and cut with a hacksaw before positioning back on the cut in half magnets.

You have to be a little more precise over the magnet but it does reduce the UK and European steel axles being attracted to the magnets. Also a little bit of foam between axle and chassis on wagons helps.

One uncoupling device that I am waiting to try are the imminent release of the Rapido Trains electromagnets with an LED light to show thier position

Edited March 3, 2016 by roundhouse

[Ray H]

I've now fitted Kadees to about 35 wagons and a couple of locos albeit that save for some minimal testing they've not been used in anger yet.
 
I've concentrated on using the NEM coupling sockets with Nos. 18 & 19 Kadees.
 
The NEM socket has generally been removed from its mount and then refitted with a sliver of paper in the fish-tail of the mount so that the matching "plug" on the socket is held firmly.
 
The couplings are fitted into the socket with a sliver of 10 thou plasticard tucked below the Kadee to remove excess play.
 
These two enhancements help to limit the vertical movement of the coupling and limit the risk of the wagon upending on the magnet..
 
After testing a number of different grades, shapes and sizes I've settled on 1.5mm thick N35 10mm by 5mm slid between the underside of the SMP rail and the top side of the sleeper base web. This appears to be enough to hold the magnets in place and allows for their adjustment to get the best results.
 
Indications so far suggest that of the 10mm length, a little over half is better on the outside the rail as this helps to pull the trip pins over better. That said, positioning isn't rocket science and I'm also happy to rotate one magnet 180º to improve performance if required.
 
I have placed one magnet between the sleepers under the left hand rail - that's left when approaching the magnet - and a second magnet between the next pair of sleepers under the right hand running rail. The results aren't perfect and the trip pins of the uncoupled (loose) wagon do show a fatal attraction tendency towards the nearest magnet but generally speaking, hand propelled wagon tests have generally been successful. This could be aided no doubt by the slow running possible with DCC fitted locos.
 
I tried 5mm square magnets but they didn't work as well so I reverted to their bigger brothers. It would be interesting to see whether an N27 grade (or even weaker) magnet would work more like the Kadee magnets but I haven't been able to locate any.

 

There are some slight variations in height which haven't caused any problems so far.

 

A few wagons will need something other than NEM versions of the couplings as will the few coaches that I have. I leaving them until I've seen how the NEM versions perform.

 

I'm hoping to give this arrangement some extensive testing over the next few weeks.

[brian777999]

1.What are most people using : the 148 (whisker equivalent of the number 5) or the 158 (scale head, slightly smaller) ? Having recently held both of them in my hand for the first time I was surprised at how little difference there is.

 

2. What metric screw should be used for the Kadee couplers ; is it an M2 X 6mm self tapper or M1.5 ? I am sorry if this was covered earlier.

[47137]

1.What are most people using : the 148 (whisker equivalent of the number 5) or the 158 (scale head, slightly smaller) ? Having recently held both of them in my hand for the first time I was surprised at how little difference there is.

 

2. What metric screw should be used for the Kadee couplers ; is it an M2 X 6mm self tapper or M1.5 ? I am sorry if this was covered earlier.

 

The "scale head" couplers are "scale size" for H0. I reserve these for use on my H0 models. Most of my models in 00 and H0 end up with the larger head because at the moment you can only get the NEM socket versions (17/18/19/20) and the over- and under-set versions with the larger head. You can however bend the shafts of 158s to put in a small offset if need be.

 

I've used M2 machine screws with both the 148s and 158s - these aren't self tappers but they often end up going into plastic. A M2 taper tap is cheap to buy if needed.

 

- Richard.

[Smiffy2]

1.What are most people using : the 148 (whisker equivalent of the number 5) or the 158 (scale head, slightly smaller) ? Having recently held both of them in my hand for the first time I was surprised at how little difference there is.

 

2. What metric screw should be used for the Kadee couplers ; is it an M2 X 6mm self tapper or M1.5 ? I am sorry if this was covered earlier.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/24427-kadee-couplers/?p=2185320

[brian777999]

That link takes me to another two links, neither of which is helpful. I saw it before.

 

Thanks Richard : I will go with M2 X 6mm then.

Edited April 5, 2016 by brian777999

[Smiffy2]

That link takes me to another two links, neither of which is helpful. I saw it before.

 

Thanks Richard : I will go with M2 X 6mm then.

I do apologise for trying to help.

 

Lesson learned.

[brian777999]

Sorry, I did not mean it to come out like that. I was not being lazy and I did see those links in a previous search but it did not have the information that I required.

Edited April 7, 2016 by brian777999

[Ray H]

I have all but finished the Kadee conversions: there are just a few locos left to do.

 

The underside of two of them are shown below.

 

 

The loco on the left is a Bachmann Class 24. It has a long coupling screwed onto the bogie. The screw is too far back to do the usual trick of drilling a hole in an No. 19 coupling - I don't have a No. 20 to hand to try but guess even that isn't long enough. I wonder if anyone else has encountered this coupling/mount length and if so, what did they do to fit Kadees?

 

Similarly, the loco on the right is a Bachmann Class 37. I'm convinced that the coupling is an NEM based design but I can't see the rear of the coupling pocket to confirm. Would I be right in thinking that I have to remove the loco body to get to the coupling box?