Kadee Couplers

[Pacific231G]

For anybody who is interested I have just built a number of Ratio GWR wagons (563,564,565,569) and like the Hornby and Mainline Toad brake vans, I have found the Kadee 146 (long, centre set) to be a good fit. It is a pity they do not make the 146 in a bulk pack as I will be needing a lot of these.

 

Weathering : If weathering wagons with an airbrush do you remove the Kadees first ? I am a bit worried about that very small exposed spring.

I would Brian. It's not just the infamous disappearing knuckle spring; the coupler as a whole is a precision piece of engineering and even a fleck of paint or glue in the knuckle or the draft gear box can stop it working properly.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Budgie]

I have found the Kadee 146 (long, centre set) to be a good fit. It is a pity they do not make the 146 in a bulk pack as I will be needing a lot of these.

Could you use a 156 coupler instead? It's a "scale" coupler and you can get them in packs of 25 pairs but without gear boxes under reference 156-25.

[Dunsignalling]

Could you use a 156 coupler instead? It's a "scale" coupler and you can get them in packs of 25 pairs but without gear boxes under reference 156-25.

That's the thing. The "scale" Kadees are sold in bulk packs because most US freight cars come with draft gear boxes moulded in.

 

Those of us fitting Kadees to UK stock don't have that luxury so need to purchase the boxes on top, thereby largely negating any cost saving. 

 

I also found that the way short wheelbase OO wagons run tended to make unwanted uncoupling happen more often on the few wagons I had fitted with the scale variety.

 

John  

[melmerby]

What's the generally accepted way to fit a Kadee to locos with the Airfix derived coupling pocket?

Quite often some of it is part of the main casting.

 

A Kadee with a clip in end but otherwise similar to the NEM range would be nice (can't see it happening though)

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[Dunsignalling]

What's the generally accepted way to fit a Kadee to locos with the Airfix derived coupling pocket?

Quite often some of it is part of the main casting.

 

A Kadee with a clip in end but otherwise similar to the NEM range would be nice (can't see it happening though)

 

Cheers

 

Keith

It's a good while since I've done one of these (on a Dapol County tender). I unfortunately no longer have the loco to verify exactly what I did but IIRC my method was

 

1. Unclip the cover, remove the coupler..  
2. Offer up an assembled #21 (nowadays I'd use a #141).
3. The assembled Kadee fits inside the original cavity around the pin provided but I don't remember if I had to file anything off the draft box to get it in. 
4. Refit the Airfix/Dapol cover to hold it all together.

I've used similar methods on coach bogies but on wagons I just chop everything off and use a #146. 

 

John

 

EDIT: I've just discovered I do still have the loco and can confirm the method was as above but with the addition of some plasticard packing because the cavity was deeper than the Kadee box. 

 

Second Edit: Upon closer inspection the cover seems to be held on by a screw inserted from above so it looks like the conversion was a bit more complex than I remember.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

It's a good while since I've done one of these (on a Dapol County tender). I unfortunately no longer have the loco to verify exactly what I did but IIRC my method was

 

1. Unclip the cover, remove the coupler..  
2. Offer up an assembled #21 (nowadays I'd use a #141).
3. The assembled Kadee fits inside the original cavity around the pin provided but I don't remember if I had to file anything off the draft box to get it in. 
4. Refit the Airfix/Dapol cover to hold it all together.

I've used similar methods on coach bogies but on wagons I just chop everything off and use a #146. 

 

John

 

EDIT: I've just discovered I do still have the loco and can confirm the method was as above but with the addition of some plasticard packing because the cavity was deeper than the Kadee box. 

 

Second Edit: Upon closer inspection the cover seems to be held on by a screw inserted from above so it looks like the conversion was a bit more complex than I remember.

Thanks for that.

 

I'm looking at a Hornby Black 5 (main range) and it has these clip in couplings but on the tender there is no seperate cover as such, it all seems to be part of the main assembly with the pin (possibly) part of a diecast chassis block and the cover integral with the tender bottom moulding.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks for that.

 

I'm looking at a Hornby Black 5 (main range) and it has these clip in couplings but on the tender there is no seperate cover as such, it all seems to be part of the main assembly with the pin (possibly) part of a diecast chassis block and the cover integral with the tender bottom moulding.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

I think I know the sort you mean, it sounds like a fairly early example, in which case I have done one. Mine was R.2250,  No.45253 (since renumbered).

 

Early versions of the air-smoothed Bulleid Light Pacific tenders were very similar, but both have since been revised to incorporate NEM pockets.

 

I used a modified # 19 Kadee on mine but there was certainly a bit of surgery involved and I did it over 10 years ago. I'll dig it out and try to work out how.

 

Will post again in a day or two if I'm successful in stimulating my memory  .

 

Cheers

 

John

Edited December 17, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

I think I know the sort you mean, it sounds like a fairly early example, in which case I have done one. Mine was R.2250,  No.45253 (since renumbered).

 

Early versions of the air-smoothed Bulleid Light Pacific tenders were very similar, but both have since been revised to incorporate NEM pockets.

 

I used a modified # 19 Kadee on mine but there was certainly a bit of surgery involved and I did it over 10 years ago. I'll dig it out and try to work out how.

 

Will post again in a day or two if I'm successful in stimulating my memory  .

 

Cheers

 

John

It's R2257 (LMS 5055) with an 8pin DCC socket and can motor in the loco. Very nice runner too!

 

http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/download/item/29

 

#15 is the tender chassis with the pin and #17 the bottom moulding incorporating the pocket screws up on to it.

You can't really cut it off as the screw that holds it in place is just there.

 

Keith

Edited December 17, 2016 by melmerby

[ejstubbs]

I have that exact loco.  Here is how I fitted Kadees to it:

 

Rear coupling I cut away the rearmost cross-member of the tender chassis bottom, leaving the screw hole in the tender chassis exposed.  I installed a Kadee #5 coupling in this hole, using the original countersunk self-tapping screw to keep it centered.  The coupling ends up at exactly the right height.  (You might need to trim the tender chassis slightly to make the coupling sit horizontal.)

 

 

Front coupling I drilled a hole 3.5mm in front of the existing coupler screw hole.  I drilled and tapped mine to take a black 2-56 button-head machine screw, but you could make it any size compatible with the mounting hole in the Kadee gear box (as I mentioned previously, I personally would not use a self-tapper for this).  I installed a Kadee #141 whisker coupler in a #262 gear box mounted on top of a Kadee #211 15 thou shim, trimmed to fit the #262 gear box.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

The loco is the same spec as mine and I did pretty much the same to it as in the pics above.

 

Only difference was that I used a modified #19 on the tender and (because I did it before whisker couplers were introduced) a #31 on the bogie, fixed with a screw salvaged from an old audio-cassette, which just happened to fit the original hole.

 

John

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

Thanks chaps

 

I've fitted the coupling to the tender of the Black 5 as suggested (using a #5) and it all went fine. I had to use a longer screw as the original was over-turned and wouldn't grip.

I haven't bothered with a front one yet, It didn't have one before.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[SteveBrooker]

Please can someone advise me on how to fit kadee couplings to the front of  Bachmann Standard 4 2-6-0 and a Hornby James (also a 2-6-0).

The tender fitting being a NEM pocket is not an issue, what I need to know is how to fit kadee's to the front, so I can run tender first.

[BR60103]

Steve: I don't have either of those, so could you tell me how the current coupling is mounted? If it's by screw, then drill a hole in a Kadee NEM. If it's  moulded together, then you have a headache.

[SteveBrooker]

Steve: I don't have either of those, so could you tell me how the current coupling is mounted? If it's by screw, then drill a hole in a Kadee NEM. If it's  moulded together, then you have a headache.

Unfortunately it is moulded into the pony truck.

[ejstubbs]

I'd suggest buying a new pony truck for each locomotive (I think it's spare part number X9384 for James, going by the Hornby service sheet - not sure about the Bachmann class 4 2-6-0, tbh it looks suspiciously like a NEM socket on the service sheet for that one) and experimenting with appropriate surgical modifications to the old ones to try to get a Kadee fitted to each.

[SteveBrooker]

I'd suggest buying a new pony truck for each locomotive (I think it's spare part number X9384 for James, going by the Hornby service sheet - not sure about the Bachmann class 4 2-6-0, tbh it looks suspiciously like a NEM socket on the service sheet for that one) and experimenting with appropriate surgical modifications to the old ones to try to get a Kadee fitted to each.

That is great advice. Thank you very much. I will get onto it.

[SteveBrooker]

That is great advice. Thank you very much. I will get onto it.

It is a NEM pocket on the front of the Standard 4! I obviously need stronger glasses!

[Jaggzuk]

Fitting Kadee to a Bachmann POA Scrap Metal wagon

 

I have started to add some Kadee couplings to my Bachmann POA/SSA Scrap meal wagons to replace the non NEM pocket tension lock couplings (TLC).

 

Rather than duplicate here I have posted a set of how-to sequence photos with descriptive text which can be found on my layout thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106602-family-8x4-oo-layout-kadee-coupling-effort/?p=2781178

 

There was a really good set of how-to photos and text on a neighbouring forum, but this particular topic post has been hit by the Photbucket 3rd party hosting issue and so all the photo have gone.

https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35812

 

Anyway, I used a No.5 coupling with a 232 draft gear box and have got pretty good close coupling even round R2 curves on the layout.  Really pleased with  the outcome.

 

 

 

Photo added of wagons on R2 curves with the glued attachment version, the inner buffer are just touching.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Jaggzuk

[Butler Henderson]

Anyway, I used a No.5 coupling with a 232 draft gear box and have got pretty good close coupling even round R2 curves on the layout.  Really pleased with  the outcome.

 

The photo shows what I dislike about using a no.5 - the draft box sticking out beyond the bufferbeam. I opt to use the longer versions 36/146/156 or if the draft box is too high 26/149 or too low 31/141/

[Jaggzuk]

You are absolutely right Butler Henderson about the protruding draft box.  But as I say in my main text (layout topic) I acquired the box of Kadees from a house clearance, which included over a 100 pairs of couplers and a lots of the draft gear boxes 232 and 242.  So I am petty much fixed to the No. 5 version, plus as I got it all for £25 I slightly hesitate at paying circa £5 just for 2 pairs!

 

I think the layout they came from was HO American looking at the other stuff that was on sale.

 

So, as this is both the kids and my layout I will make do with protruding boxes, hopefully a bit of weathering will hide the black box a bit.  But, I might source some of the longer ones to try out on my more expensive items of rolling stock.

[melmerby]

As a relative newcomer to Kadees I have experimented a bit and read what others have suggested.

Here is what I did with a couple (sic) of older wagons.

 

Mainline open wagon, also applies to early Bachmann

Body is separate from chassis so can be removed for ease of work

 

Completely remove old coupling mount and file floor flat

Using a #146 with box fix with opening upwards without lid and box filed down to remove thickness of lid:

 

Lima Siphon

 

Cut off old moulded coupling and modify bogie to take a Dapol NEM adaptor without tail

An NEM #18 then plugs straight in.

Bogies unplug so can be worked on away from the wagon

 

 

Keith

 

 

[NSE Mule]

Could anyone advise me on the best Kadee coupler to go into the Bachmann Mk2 to get the correct height? I have tried a #20 which seems the correct length but it sits too high?

[Phatbob]

Could anyone advise me on the best Kadee coupler to go into the Bachmann Mk2 to get the correct height? I have tried a #20 which seems the correct length but it sits too high?

You need the Keen Systems replacement drawbar for Bachmann Mk 2 a, b and C, fitted with Kadee #18s.

See http://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html and scroll down.

[NSE Mule]

You need the Keen Systems replacement drawbar for Bachmann Mk 2 a, b and C, fitted with Kadee #18s.

See http://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html and scroll down.

 

Great, thanks Phatbob.

[naugytrax]

But don't forget that the Keen Systems replacement drawbars are intended for use with the kind of coupler head that locks the two drawbars into one when mated. Kadee couplers don't do this, any more than tension-locks. So you won't get the best use out of the close-coupling drawbar if you fit Kadees. It's best to fit the Roco couplers as shown on the Keen website (or Fleichmann Profi-Kupplers) , or to save money within a semi-permanently coupled rake use the Keen Systems "dummy buckeyes".

On bogie vehicles with buffers, Kadee couplers of whatever pattern only give derailment-free running when attached to the end of the bogie, as in the photo two posts above. That's how I use Kadees at the outer ends of a rake.