Wagon Springing Units

[polybear]

Hi,

I'm currently making an etched brass wagon kit in 4mm and would like to fit sprung W-irons, to give a degree of springing. Currently I'm considering either the Masokits or Bill Bedford units, and would be grateful for any experiences/views/alternatives please - many thanks.

 

Brian

[Western Star]

Hi,

I'm currently making an etched brass wagon kit in 4mm and would like to fit sprung W-irons, to give a degree of springing. Currently I'm considering either the Masokits or Bill Bedford units, and would be grateful for any experiences/views/alternatives please - many thanks.

 

Brian

 

To broaden the discussion, how about the Exactoscale units?

 

regards, Graham Beare

[craigwelsh]

What the kit is will give a certain bearing on the choice.

[Gordon A]

At the moment my preference is for Bill B's, but am getting quite keen on Craig Wilding's (Welsh on this group) growing range of etched chassis's.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[polybear]

Thanks for the replies. I've just rescued the kit from the "started but not finished" box and discovered I'd previously purchased some Bill Bedford sprung w-irons, so these seem as good as any to try (especially since Gordon A uses them too). Incidentally, the kit is a Connossier Models "Pocket Money Kit" of an LNER Plate Wagon, now sadly now longer available since Jim McGeowan concentrates on 7mm kits.

 

One problem - the box should've had the instructions in it too, but they weren't. I've had a good look (including the place I would've looked last of all ) but no sign. Anyone got the same kit instructions they can scan/copy and send to me please?

 

Brian

[craigwelsh]

Those w-irons wont be suitable if its anything but a very early plate wagon as anything over 16tons had heavy duty RCH w-irons that Bill doesn't do. I had to draw them up for my LMS plate underframe and the uprights and diagonals are both a bit thicker as well as the reinforcing plate behind the axleboxes.

 

Has the etch got a product code on it just in case he did a couple of similar ones?

[polybear]

Those w-irons wont be suitable if its anything but a very early plate wagon as anything over 16tons had heavy duty RCH w-irons that Bill doesn't do. I had to draw them up for my LMS plate underframe and the uprights and diagonals are both a bit thicker as well as the reinforcing plate behind the axleboxes.

 

Has the etch got a product code on it just in case he did a couple of similar ones?

 

 

Hi,

 

The kit is for the LNER 22T plate wagon (D1/432?); the BB etches are for the RCH 1923 W-Iron. Is this ok? If not, are there any suitable alternatives incorporating springing available from other sources please? Many thanks.

 

Brian

[Wizard of the Moor]

Bill Bedford has done the RCH heavy duty W-irons. I know 'cos I ordered enough sets to get him started

 

Whether or not they are now available though Eileen's Emporium, I don't know. I'll dig out the catalogue number for you if you have trouble ordering them.

 

One point about sprung W-irons that you might like to consider for the future: the big advantage of the Bill Bedford style units (and this includes Craig's etches) is that you can change the spring wire to suit the weight of your wagon. The Masokits units, OTOH, cannot be so adjusted. I have found that the Masokits units need more weight in the wagon to get them working well. This might influence either your choice of W-iron units or how you build your wagons.

 

The big advantage of the Masokits units is that it is easier to add clasp brakes to them. With Bill's units you have to be a bit more creative to avoid fouling the ends of the spring wires.

[polybear]

Bill Bedford has done the RCH heavy duty W-irons. I know 'cos I ordered enough sets to get him started

 

Whether or not they are now available though Eileen's Emporium, I don't know. I'll dig out the catalogue number for you if you have trouble ordering them.

 

One point about sprung W-irons that you might like to consider for the future: the big advantage of the Bill Bedford style units (and this includes Craig's etches) is that you can change the spring wire to suit the weight of your wagon. The Masokits units, OTOH, cannot be so adjusted. I have found that the Masokits units need more weight in the wagon to get them working well. This might influence either your choice of W-iron units or how you build your wagons.

 

The big advantage of the Masokits units is that it is easier to add clasp brakes to them. With Bill's units you have to be a bit more creative to avoid fouling the ends of the spring wires.

 

Thanks for the reply and useful comparision between BB and Masokits units. I've checked both the BB and Eileen's websites and there's no mention of the RCH H.D. irons - could you advise me of the catalogue number please? Many thanks.

 

Brian.

[polybear]

Of course there's always something out of the ordinary:

 

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p2261306.html

 

- which shows different styles of w-iron at each end....

 

Is that an RCH Heavy Duty unit nearest the camera?

 

If so then would the following BB units be correct please:

 

http://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=5757&category_id=288&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

 

Many thanks

 

Brian

[Andy C]

Or try these:

 

http://www.checksystems.com/palatinemodels/Baseplates.html

[polybear]

Or try these:

 

http://www.checksystems.com/palatinemodels/Baseplates.html

 

I think they are "just" wagon baseplates, for use with BB/Masokits w-irons etc.

 

Brian

[craigwelsh]

Of course there's always something out of the ordinary:

 

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p2261306.html

 

- which shows different styles of w-iron at each end....

 

Is that an RCH Heavy Duty unit nearest the camera?

 

Many thanks

Brian

No its the one at the far end, the near end is the BR version that you correctly linked to. A normal RCH w-iron is narrower and can't fit those strengthening plates with the 4 rivets on.

 

You may have to email Bill and ask him if he did them to a special order. Bill definitely does a full underframe for one of these too as I sold one recently.

 

I think they are "just" wagon baseplates, for use with BB/Masokits w-irons etc.

Brian

Correct they are and show with Bill Bedford bits fitted. These were designed for use before I did the complete chassis.

 

Although you could change the springing on my chassis you wont need to as I designed it for 10thou wire. 11 is too solid and 9 too floppy - I tested. With Bill's its a bit different as you may fit them to variable types of wagon where you may weight them differently plus they are much wider over the spring pivots. The Masokits chassis subframes do allow you to change the wire whereas the individual units use etched stainless steel.

[Bob Reid]

No its the one at the far end, the near end is the BR version that you correctly linked to. A normal RCH w-iron is narrower and can't fit those strengthening plates with the 4 rivets on....

 

 

By strengthening plates Craig, do you mean the hornblocks? (or were there additional plates rivetted to the rear)

 

 

Bob.

[craigwelsh]

By strengthening plates Craig, do you mean the hornblocks? (or were there additional plates rivetted to the rear)

 

Bob.

The additional plates making up the hornblocks/guides riveted to the front of the w-irons. I think they are in addition to the on the w-iron anyway. I haven't looked at one in detail with the axleboxes and axle removed..

 

There is a decent variation in width anyway when compared with a normal w-iron when modelled.

[polybear]

Bill Bedford has done the RCH heavy duty W-irons. I know 'cos I ordered enough sets to get him started

 

Whether or not they are now available though Eileen's Emporium, I don't know. I'll dig out the catalogue number for you if you have trouble ordering them.

 

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks for all the replies.

 

I've received an email from Bill Bedford regarding the RCH heavy duty w-irons; the reply was as follows:

 

"They have been. If you order some BWF006/4 from Derek at Eileen's they will appear in due course."

 

However, the doors on the kit have four hinges (variations of the same wagon had three hinges). Following advice it seems that I'd be better

off using BR Plate w-irons, as seen here:

 

http://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=5757&category_id=288&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

 

Here's a good photo example:

 

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p2261335.html

 

Incidentally, Bill Bedford has an underframe kit for a Plate Wagon in the pipeline, which is good news now that the PMK kit no longer available.

 

Best Regards,

Brian

[craigwelsh]

BUW0191/4 LNER 27' plate u/f (the underframe for the Parkside kit) I sold this a while ago so Bill must have had some etched before. I don't think it had BR w-irons as per http://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=5849&category_id=288&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1 which does seem to be the plate w-iron version.

 

That example you showed is a BR build and quite specialised rather than the more usual unfitted type with 4 shoe brakes. Fabricating LNER lift link for a 15ft wheelbase would be required too.

[Bob Reid]

The additional plates making up the hornblocks/guides riveted to the front of the w-irons. I think they are in addition to the on the w-iron anyway. I haven't looked at one in detail with the axleboxes and axle removed..

 

There is a decent variation in width anyway when compared with a normal w-iron when modelled.

 

Thanks Craig, that's what I thought (I couldn't remember additional strengthening plates) the hornblocks were a seperate fabrication, though in some instances they were one piece cast steel blocks, either way rivetted to the front of the axleguards (W-Irons). The "luxury" versions for want of a better word had manganese steel liners between the hornblocks and the axlebox.