Penlan Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 It was the teddy bear that won it. Trainwest Ted was helping out on Penlan all weekend. He must have swung the vote. I think you may be right there Geoff, we were pleased to give him a refuge, away from the trampling feet. Perhaps he did help the vote. Sunday attendance was up 4% on last year. Overall attendance was up 13%. Provisional two-day total is 2,176. Well done to you all, especially bearing in mind the fine weather, which normally leads to a lower attendance, perhaps there's little else to do in west Wiltshire I'm told there were plenty of people on the beaches in west Cornwall today (Sunday). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 It was nice to be able to put a face to a number of RM Webbers, really enjoyed the show but legs are feeling it now. Well done to Penlan on the award, a cracking layout and a worthy winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Well Ring Road made it back safely, and for a first show outing, it was a thoroughly enjoyable weekend. I must pass on huge thanks to Geoff and the team for both the invite and the superbly organised event, to Jo and John for the loan of stock to play with, and most of all to Stuart and Neal for keeping me company for the entire weekend and helping out in more ways than I can list. As a first time exhibitor I was really pleased with both the public - the layout proved popular with families - who were well-behaved, very positive and surprisingly free of questions, seemingly happy to stand and watch trains go by. And of course the whole Trainwest team - I'm not a member of a club, but meeting such fine fellows had made me sure I need to do so, and hopefully find one with a similar great bunch of people. I will certainly be going next year as a paying customer, it was a really cracking show with some top quality layouts. Well done and thank you to all! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Now back in darkest North Lincolnshire! Not too many road works on the way back!!!!! Excellent Show Geoff Hope to see you at Trainwest again soon Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 11, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2011 Well done to Penlan! Nice to meet the man behind the name at last. Strangely I'm a bit tired today - I blame the Melksham seagulls - unfortortunately a very busy day at work wasn't what was needed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Well done to Penlan! Nice to meet the man behind the name at last..... Many thanks, likewise to meet you, would've liked to chat longer, but that's exhibitions and far apart accommodation. Haven't seen much feedback about Borchester, that is a complex layout both in front and the out of sight bits too. It could be I have to much lighting on my layout (Penlan), but the hall lighting alone wasn't enough for Borchester, I thought, to show it to it's best advantage.. Once they have sorted all the existing bits and pieces out under the layout (I seem to recall reading there was still some work to do?), perhaps they will look at some form of self contained lighting rig(s). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted April 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 12, 2011 Haven't seen much feedback about Borchester, that is a complex layout both in front and the out of sight bits too. I agree with that Sandy , I think the guys that now run it have done very well to take what was a fixed layout out on the exhibition circuit , I spent some time looking at the area round the back and it certainly does not look like an easy to use fiddle yard . I think once they can get it fully sorted and ultra reliable it should look and operate even better . It was good to see it after having read about it in the mags all those years ago , for what was one mans work it was very interesting and enjoyable to see it in the real world . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Well Ring Road made it back safely, and for a first show outing, it was a thoroughly enjoyable weekend. I must pass on huge thanks to Geoff and the team for both the invite and the superbly organised event, to Jo and John for the loan of stock to play with, and most of all to Stuart and Neal for keeping me company for the entire weekend and helping out in more ways than I can list. David, It was not a problem, Stuart and I had a great weekend assisting you with Ring Road, and its great to see it in the flesh. You really have captured the modern scene very well with Ring Road. Oh and thanks for letting me back date it 25 years by allowing me to run some of my stock, towards the end of the show. But I will keep threatening the layout with a soldering iron. As a first time exhibitor I was really pleased with both the public - the layout proved popular with families - who were well-behaved, very positive and surprisingly free of questions, seemingly happy to stand and watch trains go by. And of course the whole Trainwest team - I'm not a member of a club, but meeting such fine fellows had made me sure I need to do so, and hopefully find one with a similar great bunch of people. David Awww shucks Thats very kind of you, and you would be most welcome, well the layout would any way I'm glad you enjoyed your first exhibition as an exhibitor, I know you never intended Ring Road to be an exhibition layout, but hopefully you will get more invites as the word gets around about the layout, it really is a very well modelled layout and should be seen by more people. Many regards Neal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Haven't seen much feedback about Borchester, that is a complex layout both in front and the out of sight bits too. It could be I have to much lighting on my layout (Penlan), but the hall lighting alone wasn't enough for Borchester, I thought, to show it to it's best advantage.. I have to agree and to admit it received very little attention from me for that reason. When there is so much to chose from and spectacular and welcoming layouts, it has to have some extraordinary appeal - and, I'm afraid, it didn't for me. If you are going to exhibit a layout it is one of the most essential things to attend to. Though predicting just how good the hall lighting will be is not easy, some venues have too much natural lighting and you end up blinded in the sunlight others are simply too dark if the sun isn't shining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Haven't seen much feedback about Borchester, that is a complex layout both in front and the out of sight bits too. It could be I have to much lighting on my layout (Penlan), but the hall lighting alone wasn't enough for Borchester, I thought, to show it to it's best advantage.. I always tend to view layouts in numerical order to make sure I don't miss anything, is this a common practice? I had 4 hours there on Saturday, and due to bad planning, or the fact that I enjoyed some of the other layouts so much, I had very little time to see Morfa Mawr, Schull, Penlan & Borchester Market. Also no time to shop! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I always tend to view layouts in numerical order to make sure I don't miss anything, is this a common practice? Certainly not with me .. the way I go about a show depends on how many halls there are and how easy it is to navigate through the crowds. The best layout in a single hall is trade round the outside. As I always look at trade first - in a panic to avoid "selling out", "missing a bargain" or simply "forgetting why I came in the first place" - it is nice to simply make one quick circuit of the trade stands followed by a slower circuit browsing. I can then consider weaving in and out among the layouts. I have been known to return to a layout for a second or third view, but they tend to be the exceptional layouts or I'm returning more for a natter. I usually only get a couple of hours at any show (especially if the journey is going to be long) so quite often I just do not have time to see everything. I tend to use the guide to locate and visit the layouts I have never seen before and look at these first. That way you pick up on some real gems before the news of them is well broadcast. Two layouts that fell into this "outstanding in first show" category were Cement Quay and Egypt Brewery (but here have been others). Layouts from the past tend not to appeal so much to me and like T the T layouts just are not a draw. As for the number of halls/rooms used - in some ways this can be exciting to discover more interesting things - but taken to extreme (a series of small classrooms) it becomes disorganised and tiring (look in to one room and see it as crowded or a slow moving queue round it - I just walk on by. The hall used at Trainwest was comfortable and a very adequate venue for the numbers attending. Sure the space in front of Treneglos was a bit of a squeeze but that had as much to do with the entrance being opposite as with the popularity of that layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Th exhibition is now on YouTube here thanks to Trevor Powell. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2011 Thus far I haven't mentioned Borchester Market mainly because I found it intensely disappointing. An excellent layout in its day in its designer/builder's hands it is clearly a complex layout to work properly and to best advantage - and I felt this simply was not happening on the several occasions I viewed it (including one extended session looking at it over the left end of Penlan. The lack of inbuilt lighting was obviously to its disadvantage but didn't worry me too much - what was lacking for me was the reality and sharpness of operation that Frank Dyer built it to achieve. In contrast Penlan (and I'm quite happy to disclose that I voted for it) did suffer from occasionally chaotic operation while 'the boss' wasn't there to keep an eye on his happy band of helpers but that couldn't detract from what for me was a well displayed and crafted model of a railway built by an RMWeb member. In fact I was even prepared to overlook the fact the the Down Home Signal still hasn't been moved because the layout made up for that in many other ways Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The only things that I found disappointing with Borchester were it's size (I somehow thought it'd be bigger), and none of the stock seemed to be Frank's originals, probably with good reason but reading about the layout as a young kid and noticing the oversized loops across the buffers and the obvious worm wheel on a J39? certainly made me think about the accuracy of my train set and what I could do to turn it into a model railway. I'm glad I got to saw it and it's attendance at future shows would definitely tempt me to go. Overall, I thought it was an excellent selection of layouts which made booking a day off work and enduring the 180 mile round trip well worthwhile, and a big thankyou to Geoff and his team for staging the event. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 12, 2011 Lots of comments on Borchester and I was going to keep quiet but... 1. I love the concept of the layout and what Frank fitted in to the space 2. I'm really glad this piece of modelling history has been preserved 3. It badly needed some lighting - compared to all the other layouts it looked dull and uninviting 4. It's obviously a complex beast to master. On my occasional passouts from TG i didn't notice much moving but two gents looking confused at a set of cards and the complex controls Good for the nostalgia but not great as something to entertain the paying public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted April 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2011 Th exhibition is now on YouTube here thanks to Trevor Powell. Geoff Endacott Picture quality on the video is not great but the sound track is terrific Echo what others have said, a very good show. Jerry http://www.jerrycliffordmodels.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Chambers Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 A superb exhibition as always and being early managed to avoid the traffic gridlock that built up late morning!Like others I had not intended to mention Borchester but can only agree with general disappointment.The lack of lighting really removed any impact the layout might have had and in four visits on my perambulations round the hall,nothing moved.Sad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 ........ In fact I was even prepared to overlook the fact the the Down Home Signal still hasn't been moved because the layout made up for that in many other ways It's really getting to me too, but I have the parts now for a bracket signal - so provided all those other jobs that need doing at home and in the village can be kept at bay for a day or two, I might, just might get some time on the layout.... Many thanks for your kind words, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60526 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Borchester Market Can I just say that the team all enjoyed the exhibition, accomodation in Chippenham was top notch, beer was good. Apologise to the guy at the digs with the Capri 2.8 injection when I suggested that it was painted grey! It's the first time any of us have been to the Melksham venue and from what we had been told lighting would not be a problem, as far as we could see it was a sports centre where from our experience lighting is usually good. So I would question some of the motives for attacking only Borchester, we weren't the only layout without lighting. It's happened before and will probably happen again and to be quite honest it's getting boring, why slag off this layout and not others. I wish we had an end to end layout with bright lights or a fiddleyard to terminus layout with only 2 or 3 points, how could you go wrong, but I've not jumped up and said that the hand of god or locos suddenly stopping caused a detraction, but it was happening. Where else in the exhibition was there a layout with so much shunting going on, at times we were able to use all the front 3 controllers, it's a methodical part of the timetable, it also has times when not much is going on such as locos being moved around in the loco yard and turned. So we don't believe that you can come around the layout 4 times and not see anything move. Earlier in this thread I mentioned that you were free to come and ask question, come around the back and have a look, we'd show you what's involved. I think we had 2 from RMweb, just 2, the rest were Joe Public, all seemed to appreciate it. It just shows how much real interest some of you guys have, it's a preserved layout, it's also a work in progress and the layout performed very well at Melksham, the best we've had from it so far. So if you had come along to ask you would have found out that this layout has arounds 60 straight points, a 3 way, 2 double slips, 3 single slips and 2 scissor crossings, numerous ex GPO relays and miles of (old) wiring. We've reached the stage where the majority of the points have been fitted with microswitches. This is partly where we are getting better reliability from. Some of the track and pointwork in the fiddleyards is from the 1950's and through the various versions of Borchester Town. We were an experienced operator down over the weekend, we really need 6, we're short on back-up at the moment anyway. It's not the sort of layout where you can just turn up and expect to start operating it straight away. Frank Dyer's team had a lot of training over time to perfect their art, we have no such luxury. We've an ongoing timetable of upgrades that we are going to do. 2 in parallel at the moment, to move the GN fiddleyard and GC loop junction relay boxes to a new location and fit easier to use plugs, this is a massive rewire and involves changes to the main station boards as well. The other is to replace the whole of the GC fiddleyard board, you can only fix and mend so many times, the track and pointwork is life expired. The plan is to complete this before ModelRail Scotland next year. We've always had plans to add some simple lighting and this wil be done after the rewire but before MRS, we know from experience that the Glasgow exhibition centre at 7 o'clock on a Friday night gets dark. So our next outing is Railex next month. As far as we know lighting is good enough at this venue, the layout will not have any lighting. I can see where you coming from if you'd been operating a layout with bright lights, but to look through a bright layout like Penlan straight at Borchester, what do you expect. The detail is in the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2011 Borchester Market So our next outing is Railex next month. As far as we know lighting is good enough at this venue, the layout will not have any lighting. I can see where you coming from if you'd been operating a layout with bright lights, but to look through a bright layout like Penlan straight at Borchester, what do you expect. The detail is in the layout. I think you will find that I did not criticise the lack of lighting - I simply noted it. What I did note as 'intensely disappointing' was the layout not being operated in a way which lived up to what Frank Dyer had designed and built into it. You have explained, at some length, the age related problems and I can understand that could well explain the way in which signals appeared to be worked or not worked in relation to movements being made and indeed the hesitancy of some movements or the fact that they didn't appear to be doing what the signals indicated they would do. The layout is complex - that has always been one of its most obvious points and I can understand it will take time to get it up to fully modernised working order but that still doesn't explain some of the head scratching that went on as cards were turned over although you have also explained that operators need to get used to and learn the layout. Fair comments of course - it was just that for me it wasn't living up to what it was originally built for although from what you have said it will one day hopefully get back to that and I shall be more than happy to see it in that state and favourably comment on it. I'm sorry to be critical because what I, and others, have said on here has clearly hit a raw spot but I commented as I saw, and - admittedly - asI would have hoped to have seen; I look forward to seeing it again and in a better 'light'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Borchester Market ...... I would question some of the motives for attacking only Borchester, ....... and will probably happen again and to be quite honest it's getting boring, why slag off this layout and not others. With respect I was not attacking, I did take some time out to look at Borchester, and indeed ask questions, my original comments were:- 'Haven't seen much feedback about Borchester, that is a complex layout both in front and the out of sight bits too. It could be I have to much lighting on my layout (Penlan), but the hall lighting alone wasn't enough for Borchester, I thought, to show it to it's best advantage' At no point did I comment on the operation of Borchester, indeed as you have correctly observed the twice yearly showing of my layout with operators who live some 250 miles away (and thus only see the layout twice a year too) are not up to speed with operating, plus I allow them to run their loco's etc on the layout, not all are perfect runners - I would love to have just one other operator who is familiar with Penlan, but there's nobody keen enough in West Cornwall who has come forward to help, there's a few who have come forward, but as you will be aware, not everybody is a good operator. I was on Bob Essery's Dewsbury exhibition operating crew, I would say 50% of them were not that good at operating the layout, brilliant modellers though they are/were. Yes, there where other layouts without lighting at Trainwest, but I didn't comment on those, because they didn't interest me, lighting or not - Borchester does. I have made numerous comments over the years in various formats (magazines and Forums) on people taking over iconic layouts, only for them then to find what looked great from the front, can be a nightmare from behind and/or underneath, I'm not suggesting Borchester falls into that category, but I'm told (and seem to recall reading somewhere else) it was not all plain sailing when you took the layout over, and indeed your comments above explain the tremendous amount of work that is going on in the background even now. I am retired now, but I have rewired a lot of layouts for clients over the years, the clients (and friends) have 'rescued' much admired layouts, then found out ...*******........ So, finally, and where we came in, I was not attacking Borchester, merely commenting that some lighting would have been an aid to see the complex trackwork and the layouts workings in, with respect to the Bentley boys, a fairly dull hall. Edit - I first became aware of the need for my own independent lighting for exhibitions back in the late 60's, and I have strove to have some decent lighting ever since, lighting that matches that used at home under which the models are painted, lined and lettered, the scenics done etc., ALL by me. Sandy Croall, West Cornwall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 So our next outing is Railex next month. As far as we know lighting is good enough at this venue, Railex has probably the best lighting of any venue. It's got to be good as they film quite a few sporting thing there. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 So I would question some of the motives for attacking only Borchester motives - cannot quite understand what you are insinuating. , we weren't the only layout without lighting. possibly not - but you were the most noticeable - as I don't recall another. and certainly not another having so much reputation and public acclaim. It's happened before and will probably happen again and to be quite honest it's getting boring I guess the best way to avoid it then, is to provide some lighting - others seem to manage to do this and not just end to end. Having to peer through near darkness makes the layout appear drab and unlifelike. When time is limited at a show (it is for some) then what incentive is there to stand and wait for the next movement - especially if you are not going to see it. Also if we are not inclined to see it from the front we are even less inclined to seek to view from behind or ask questions - no matter how inviting you are. It just shows how much real interest some of you guys have I'll look out for it at Railex ... and try to remember to bring my torch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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