DJH Black 5

[Simon Moore]

Some time ago i purchased a DJH black 5 kit & made a small start on the chassis which worked but had a bit of a clanking sound in so i decided to shelve the kit until a rainy or in this case a snowy day . With one thing & another i've not had a weekend free for sometime to actually spend some time modeling plus i think you need to be in a modeling mood otherwise it doesnt work. With the week slowly approaching weekend i decided that this weekend just gone would be a weekend when something got done either wagons or a loco. I've a few kits ammassed in the cupboard & thought the black 5 needed a bit of work doing before anything else.

 

This is the table at present.

 

 

First up was to re do the chassis which wasnt a major operation but i wanted to make sure it was bob on. I use a Avonside chassis pro jig for building the chassis's of my locos but there is a design flaw i suppose when it comes to doing a DJH kit with the jig. For anyone who doesnt know how a chassis pro works you firstly build up the coupling rods & use these to aline the jig so that the frames etc will all be true & straight. The problem is that DJH rods have very large holes in the connecting rods which will not fit the sizes on the 1/8 rods that the jig uses so it took a bit of head scratching to figure a way of getting the frames to fit perfectly. I eventually lined up the centre fixed rod on the jig with one of the other rods & made sure it was a hassle free fit no tight spots of any kind. Once i was happy i tightened it all up & then followed the same process again with the other axel until i had 3 axels rods on the jig fitting the frames with no tight spots so it slid on & off with ease.

 

 

I've fitted the brakes to the chassis at this stage because this is Tony Wrights method from the DVD & i think it is a good thing to do this now rather than fitting the motion aswell.

After finishing off the chassis i turned to the tender kit which i decided would be the next stage of the kit. The tender has gone together rather well the only problems i did have was fitting some etchs to the inner parts of the body & the main whitemetal casting for the tender slope being very deformed on one edge. I've bodged this section but once its covered with paint grime & coal i doubt it will be even noticable to the naked eye.

 

 

At present i am finishing off the body on the kit this went together totally hassle free & everything fits snug on the body without need to fettle. I did make a cock up with the boiler when i put it together & it went on a little lob sided. The only thing showing this really was the fact that the chimney was at an angle & it had soldered on excetionally well so it wasnt for coming off. My friend said why not fit a brass one so after a quick call to Markits i hacked off the old one & refitted the brass one & its now looking the part. This kit so far has been fun & at the same time a pain in the khyber pass. DJH really need to rethink the way they word the instructions on these kits because there are certain areas which need explaining properly not just fit part 33 through to 38. I'm about to tackle the motion & the return on the central crankpin has no reference to how its fixed which is a bit of a flaw in my book but i've now given up to the instructions more or less & just using the diagrams to build the kit.

 

 

Sofar so good its by no means perfect but i think for my first attempt at a big loco i've done rather well, i've not done any modelmaking for sometime & its hard to jump straight back into the saddle so i think i have done well i feel confident in myself to tackle the motion & next week i'm starting a brassmasters super d in P4

 

 

Comments welcome.

 

Simon.

[Horsetan]

I don't know what camera you're using, but it doesn't do your work any credit at all. All I can see from here are watery, foggy images. You need something a bit sharper.

 

 

[Simon Moore]

Its the wives digital cam Ivan its not the best tool but my nikon is charging at the minute once i get it charged i shall take some new pictures of my progress.

 

Simon.

[craigwelsh]

Even the cheap cameras normally have a macro mode that should sort out that chassis shot.

 

DJH seem to just be selling these kits 'as is' for a long as they can now before the market dies.

[James]

DJH seem to just be selling these kits 'as is' for a long as they can now before the market dies.

They haven't helped things though, resolutely 00 kits seem very dated now. Although P4 and EM modellers aren't they main market but kits which make provision for EM and P4 tend to be more advanaced in other areas too and I think these will continue to sell in the long term I think.

 

I've always felt that it is a real shame that DJH kits haven't spported EM or P4 as some of their locos look very nice indeed - the Black 5 for instance looks, I think, pretty good but in the 00 market is maybe less desirable than before due to Hornby's new Black 5. Similarly their LNER pacifics probably sell far fewer these days.

[Matador]

Heres one I built a few years ago

DCSnr

A Brit in the USA

[craigwelsh]

They haven't helped things though, resolutely 00 kits seem very dated now. Although P4 and EM modellers aren't they main market but kits which make provision for EM and P4 tend to be more advanaced in other areas too and I think these will continue to sell in the long term I think.

 

I've always felt that it is a real shame that DJH kits haven't spported EM or P4 as some of their locos look very nice indeed - the Black 5 for instance looks, I think, pretty good but in the 00 market is maybe less desirable than before due to Hornby's new Black 5. Similarly their LNER pacifics probably sell far fewer these days.

My point was they don't think it worth spending the investment in improving the kits for any extra sales. I wasn't referring to the death of a market for kits in general but theirs in particular.

 

I guess in their heyday before 'modern' Hornby they got most of their sales from 00 modellers wanting something different or slightly better. It'd take a lot of work to bring their offerings up to Brassmasters/Finney/LRM standards and cost/benefit is clearly not thought worth it.

 

Are you completing this one fully before you start a fully sprung P4 loco?

[iak]

New chassis for the DJH stuff would be a winner surely?

I mean all those lovely Caledonian,NBR and GCR loco's

Seems a no brainer to me?

[Mallard60022]

They haven't helped things though, resolutely 00 kits seem very dated now. Although P4 and EM modellers aren't they main market but kits which make provision for EM and P4 tend to be more advanaced in other areas too and I think these will continue to sell in the long term I think.

 

I've always felt that it is a real shame that DJH kits haven't spported EM or P4 as some of their locos look very nice indeed - the Black 5 for instance looks, I think, pretty good but in the 00 market is maybe less desirable than before due to Hornby's new Black 5. Similarly their LNER pacifics probably sell far fewer these days.

 

I've managed to build quite a few DJH4mm kits over the years (and actually finished a couple:rolleyes:) and I've got a few for not very much from the auction site that appear when a RTR version comes out. I've also bought and used their drive trains a couple of times. One has been excellent but the other needed replacement before it had even run in properly but they are good when they work and do fit the kit! I've also managed to get some 'replacement' parts for 'faulty' castings but NEVER any spares 'cause they just will not do that at all despite my pleas!

Some of the LNER Pacifics instructions were rewritten by Tony Wright quite some time back and they are betterthan the originals that you find in the old versions of the kits, but still assume the builder has a lot of knowledge. However, I recently managed to get them to send me a PDF of the 'updated' Peppercorn A1 instructions and they are still inadequate compared to those of (say) Comet Models.

Sounds pompous but I offered to modify some of their instruction sheets for loco's I have built, based on T Wrights 'method'. No point & no thanks was the response as well as we don't sell enough to warrant that. Well, I wasn't going to charge them anything, they would have had them to consider and I would have gladly 'corrected'anything they thought odd. They would have then had them in a downloadable form for placing in the kits and I think these upgrades may have been a little more 'explicit' with some extra diagrams too, especially for the valve gear!

My opinion is that they have given up on the 4mm kit side of things. If that is wrong I would be very happy to apologise, but my experience supports my opinion.

36E

[Kenton]

I've always felt that it is a real shame that DJH kits haven't spported EM or P4 as some of their locos look very nice indeed - the Black 5 for instance looks, I think, pretty good but in the 00 market is maybe less desirable than before due to Hornby's new Black 5. Similarly their LNER pacifics probably sell far fewer these days.

In part I agree that designing their kits for P4 would have opened up the market place a bit but generally they can be converted to EM. The DJH kits are, I think purposefully, targeted at the OO "new to kit building" marketplace and with their very comprehensive instructions and generally big loco appeal range are well suited. P4 remains very much a niche and exotic market with probably more members upgrading from EM than directly from OO. Despite what P4 modeller would like to believe (even if it is true) P4 is not for everyone.

 

The one thing that I think limits DJH dramatically is the range is kettle focused and generally big kettles at that. Exactly the same marketplace that the RTR manufacturers target.

[James]

My point was they don't think it worth spending the investment in improving the kits for any extra sales. I wasn't referring to the death of a market for kits in general but theirs in particular.

I do think the two are linked. But they have sold the odd shocker for a long time - their LNER B16 I think, is particlarly bad.

[Simon Moore]

Are you completing this one fully before you start a fully sprung P4 loco?

 

Yes Craig i shall be completing this one fully i'm really enjoying building it & i have a few others to finish too. The P4 loco is being done with the assistance of Allan Smith one of the Craven area group members who is helping me out with all the areas in P4 i need. I've also made a promise to a member of this forum that i shall build the kit i purchased from him so he can see it in its finished form. So with that in mind we'll be starting that kit a week this saturday which i am looking forward to.

 

I think that the DJH range is great for kits especially some of the 1 off's like the crosti 9f & the 0-10-0 big bertha, it'd be a real shame if they withdrew the 4mm range which i hope they dont do. For instance the black 5 i am building is probably not as well detailed etc as the Hornby version & it certainly costs more but i'm getting the pleasure of making it & that to me is worth the money alone. I know it won't be as well finished & might not even run as well but i had the fun building it & watching something you made run afterwards is miles better than buying something off a shelf & running it.

 

I've primed the chassis this afternoon & i'll get a coat of satin black on before i leave for work then hopefully tomorrow i can move on to the next section of the model ( Valve Gear )

 

Simon.

 

 

 

[Kenton]

I do think the two are linked. But they have sold the odd shocker for a long time - their LNER B16 I think, is particlarly bad.

Not as bad as the near un-buildable "rebuilt" West Country - I must have "rebuilt" that chassis at least half a dozen times and never did get it to roll square.

 

One of my favourites was the Claughton (short) which just seemed to fall together.

 

Though I do hate their use of open frame motors.

[Simon Moore]

I've got the b16 kit & yep its not brilliant, i had to send the chassis back because the axel holes didnt line up with the splashers on the footplate & also the frames were too long. DJH have just taken the top off the tophat bearings & shortened the frames which i have a feeling will cause many problems when it comes to turning bends. I doubt that kit will ever get finished because london road are releasing the ex steve barnfield b16 which is on my list of kits i want.

 

Simon.

[Horsetan]

Not as bad as the near un-buildable "rebuilt" West Country - I must have "rebuilt" that chassis at least half a dozen times and never did get it to roll square.....

 

Hmmm....I've got a few of those in the wardrobe.... Have alternative etched chassis for them anyway, so no trouble there

[Kenton]

Hmmm....I've got a few of those in the wardrobe.... Have alternative etched chassis for them anyway, so no trouble there

Good luck, the castings are pits as well. ISTR that Ian Rice selected it for some award or other in one of his excellent kit construction books. I also think it has been removed from the range. You used to see them pop up on ebay quite a bit but not now - probably everyone has one in the scrap box by now.

 

There probably is someone who has persevered and built it, but compared to some of the other really excellent kits they do, this one was a real Friday Mould.

[Horsetan]

Good luck, the castings are pits as well.

 

I've got one which looks OK, and another which looks sh*te. Friday production using a Friday mould, maybe? Some of the detail castings can be replaced with stuff from Markits, Goodall, etc.

 

Mind you, not as bad as the K's rebuilt "Merchant Navy" kit sample I once examined. That one was all over the shop, and the firebox was deformed as well

 

ISTR that Ian Rice selected it for some award or other in one of his excellent kit construction books. I also think it has been removed from the range. You used to see them pop up on ebay quite a bit but not now - probably everyone has one in the scrap box by now.

 

It was in his chassis book. The chassis frames won an award for their armour-plate thickness (36thou....per side), and the valve gear fret was commended for the largest number of oval holes ever seen..... That's why I bought new chassis kits from a different maker!!