railway carriage handrails - what metals?

[Pacific231G]

This may seem like a really simple question- but isn't!! Does anyone- especially anyone involved with heritage restoration- know what metals were used on the prototype for the vertical handrails on either side of passenger doors on steam era carriages. In the UK these seems to have mostly been fitted to prestige coaches such as Pullmans and GW Ocean Saloons but because of the low platforms were fairly universal in Europe and were also fitted to GW autocoaches for the same reason. If not painted they were generally a well polished metal but we don't know what range of metals has been used for this. Some look like well polished mild steel, possibly nickel plated, and on modern coaches stainless steel or aluminium but some older ones look rather more like a dark bronze like this one (The door handle looks to be the same metal)

The reason this has come up is that the handrails now being supplied for some European coaches are square section etched brass which is clearly wrong as handrails are always round in section but we want to know what to replace this with. Manufacturers like France-Trains used brass wire for theirs and we think this was probably wrong except possibly for the most prestigous vehicles like Pullman cars. but as with the Pacific Vapeur Club's OCEM some do have a somewhat bronze appearance.

This isn't a purely overseas question as I'm seeing the same range of colours on some British stock. This is one of those fittings that doesn't get a second thought until you want to model it accurately!!

 

David

[DonB]

Knowing nothing about Continental trains, I found it a little difficult to decide whether you are talking about the prototype, or the model, or both.

For UK practice:-

I believe that the Tee-section handles on slam doors were brass, even on NPCCS, certainly the yellow colour indicates that.

Don't know about grab handles as shown in your photo, but my understanding of Pre-war plating practice onto mild steel was copper plating as a priming layer followed by either nickel or cadmium.

Advances in plating technology post-war enabled direct deposition of nickel onto steel.

I would have thought that the use of stainless steel would have been prohibitively expensive, and Aluminium too soft / weak for the duty.

If you have access to a preserved example, a magnet will tell whether it is steel.

[Pacific231G]

Knowing nothing about Continental trains, I found it a little difficult to decide whether you are talking about the prototype, or the model, or both.

For UK practice:-

I believe that the Tee-section handles on slam doors were brass, even on NPCCS, certainly the yellow colour indicates that.

Don't know about grab handles as shown in your photo, but my understanding of Pre-war plating practice onto mild steel was copper plating as a priming layer followed by either nickel or cadmium.

Advances in plating technology post-war enabled direct deposition of nickel onto steel.

I would have thought that the use of stainless steel would have been prohibitively expensive, and Aluminium too soft / weak for the duty.

If you have access to a preserved example, a magnet will tell whether it is steel.

Thanks Don

I was talking about the prototype and your explanation of plating practice would explain why they had a copperish colour when well used. The coaches I'm particularly interested in were OCEMs built between 1926 and 1940 to a standard design for most of the French railways to replace wooden bodied coaches in express service. These probably would have had the plating you describe and may well have retained their oriignal hand rails throughout their careers. They remained in service till the mid 1980s and probably later in departmental use. In France as elsewhere stainless steel (Inox) was used for coach bodies from the mid 1930s (licenced from the American Budd Company who'd invented the shotwelding technique for joining stainless steel components ) but I think plated mild steel sounds more likely throughout as the standard material for these grab rails.

[R A Watson]

When we were painting the ex G W R coaches at Buckfastleigh in the early days the handles were a brass type material, one of our gang was employed at Buckfast Plating and used to take them to work and polish them during his meal breaks on their buffing machines.

Auto coach main hand rails (the ones attached to the swing out steps) were painted steel as they doubled up as part of the operating gear but the others on the coach were capable of being polished.

Having said that there were several examples which had signs of being painted black during their life

 

Wally

[Oldddudders]

Brass. I think that is what Southern Railway and successor Souther Region EMUs used. Those rows of curly commode handles on the side, as well as the handrails by the cab doors and the door handles themselves were all brass. That changed abruptly some time in the early '70s, when gangs of thieves started stripping whole trains of their very-floggable brass commode handles. Trains were cancelled, since it was considered unsafe for the now-bare locating bolts to be allowed to extend without a smooth handle on them. New handles were provided - where & while spare stocks lasted, but the thefts were of epidemic proportion, and so a new handle, made of some less valuable metal, and possibly epoxy-coated, was quickly designed and procured.

[45125]

I suspect most of them were YM2,or something very similar. Most would have had some form os chrome plate as well. Many of the longer grab rails, such on guards doors were either round or flat steel bar. Another material that was used was "staybright". this looks like stainless steel.

 

Plain flat bar was used on later replacements when the "tea leaves" thought they were still a brass like material.

 

Al Taylor

[Pacific231G]

I suspect most of them were YM2,or something very similar. Most would have had some form of chrome plate as well. Many of the longer grab rails, such on guards doors were either round or flat steel bar. Another material that was used was "staybright". this looks like stainless steel.

 

Do you mean Staybrite Al ? This was apparently the trade name given in 1924 by the Sheffield steelmakers Thomas Firth for the type of stainless steel developed by William Hatfield that includes Nickel as well as Chromium. His 18/8 formula (18% Cr 8% Ni) is apparently still the most commonly used alloy for stainless steel. Harry Brearley's original 1913 "rustless steel" included only Chromium but it was he who realised its potential for cutlery and food items as a cheaper alternative to sterling silver and nickel silver.

I've not found a reference to YM2, what is it?

 

In any case I reckon the bronze appearance of the grab rails on Pacific Vapeur Club's OCEM is the nickel plate worn away and starting to reveal the copper layer from the pre-war plating process described by DonB. Presumably when that's worn away as well rust is not far behind- at which point they'd presumably be rubbed down and painted as a good number of coaches show. Pictures of these coaches - which were all built between the wars- do show a variety of metal surfaces that might well include stainless steel as well as nickel plated mild steel.

 

Thanks to all who've come up with suggestions.