Searching For A Better BR Restaurant Buffet ?

[robertcwp]

Well Larry was asking for an unclassified catering car, that's why i suggested Gresley stock. A Diagram 11 RU should fit the bill. Thompson didn't build any RU types.

Cheers, Brian.

True, but Thompson RFs could run unclassed, and often did in later years, as did Gresley RFs.

[Timara]

Hi Everyone,

One of the "Holy Grails" of BR modelling is to get a better quality Mk1 Restaurant Buffet (RB) car, which was a very useful and numerous type. Bachmann don't make one, Mainline did and Replica have carried on producing it in recent years. When the Mainline version appeared (nearly 30yrs ago ?) it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's still pretty good, but the windows aren't very flush and it doesn't match the Bachmann profile.

 

 

Cheers, Brian.

 

 

 

Hi Brian,

 

Couldn't find it on the old forum, but there's another method you can try and it does do the trick. If you're ever in need of a Bachmann RU as a test train vehicle with plated-over windows, the glazing is highly useful indeed and can fit the old Mainline model with a little bit of work. Only needs the openings filed out a tad......

 

The overall effect isn't too too bad to be honest. I only need a pair of them, so this method suits rather well.

 

 

 

 

 

Roof still needs a final coat of paint and I need to fit the Bachmann coupling arm to the other end, but it's pretty much done aside from a bit of final weathering (not to mention repairing the damaged lining on the kitchen side). The gangway connectors are Bachmann ones left over from a project.

 

Certainly proves there are more ways to skin the proverbial cat, wouldn't you agree?

 

Cheers,

Tim

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Tim,

That does look good, i especially like the "distressed" weathering job. The Mainline/Replica shell has window rims, is there a problem when you widen or enlarge the original openings ? This is possibly an easier method than using Replica windows on my blue-grey at the top of the page. Having to change the size and pattern of the Replica windows, i've rather made a rod for my back.

What other coaches will this run with ? It won't match the profile of the Bachmann, so the other Mainline/Replica types are probably the best bet. It matches the Kitmaster profile quite well too.

Cheers, Brian.

 

(Memo to Larry: Note the smoother roof. )

[Timara]

Hi Brian,

 

The window rims don't cause any problem at all when opening them out. There's some kind of lip inside them that I swear should not be there, but out it comes and in go the new windows. The toilet at the end caused a little bit of hurrumphing but I managed to salvage the vent and bar from the Bachmann RU and it went in OK.

 

Profile-wise, it's not far out and the only thing that strikes it out as being different are the raised window frames. If I'm honest, the frames are a bit on the proud side, so for a repainted one, I'd strip the body to bare plastic and thin down the frames. I must admit that I prefer the Mainline shell to any of the later Replica ones. The latter just don't scream "BR standard stock" to me in the way the Bachmann ones do. Incidentally, the bogies are the clip-fit ones that came with the original Mainline BSK/SK that Replica produced a few of. They're very hard to get hold of but they do make backdating the buffet much easier! OK, so they're not the correct BR2 bogies, but what the hell....

 

I really must get the entire train that the above RB runs with finished off. A full length Irish Mail (13 bogies in my case) with a rebuilt Scot on the front is a sight to stir anyone!

 

Cheers,

Tim

[Brian Kirby]

A few more pics,

 

 

Unlike Larry's method of joining brass sides to the floor and ends, then gluing the roof on, my favourite method is the opposite. I prefer to join the brass sides to the roof and ends and have the chassis drop out with the interior. Brackets go low down inside the ends and with screws, hold the chassis in, the same is intended with Comet's complete kit. (This RB hasn't got the brackets fitted yet)

 

 

There are pros and cons with either method. Where the roof comes off, you can get the interior in full width, but holding the roof on can be difficult, unless it's dead rigid. With the other method and the roof permanently on, you can get a very good roof-to-body join and the downpipes stay secured.

For this reason, i chop off the Bachmann ends and rejoin them to the roof and ends.

Cheers, Brian.

 

[davidw]

How you getting on with this Brian?

[coachmann]

I wondered what steps have been taken to prevent the chassis from bowing inside the body at the centre. It shouldn't if the interior is screwed to the chassis with the three self- tappers but I went in for over-engineering.....

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Chaps,

Things are coming along, but there are so many distractions this time of year, so personal train work suffers.

 

Here's the RB (a Bachmann RU with Comet RB sides) in a trial coat of chocolate, aiming to match the chocolate on the Bachmann RTR Mk1s. Trouble is, Bachmann have used three different shades over the years, two are pictured below. I say trial coat, since this is my own concoction of mostly Humbrol No.10 with a dash of royal blue to darken it. The paint is supplied as gloss, so it needs matting down as well. If it really bothers me, i can always lightly over-spray the other chocolate coaches, although i'm sure they didn't all look the same. I'm happy with the cream match and "my" chocolate matches the darker Bachmann shade quite well.

 

The cream is cellulose and so any cock-ups with the enamel chocolate can be just wiped off and corrected. I didn't use masking tape, just a steel rule held tightly. Funnily enough, straight car windscreen wipers can be used for masking similar jobs, again any enamel mistake can be easily corrected, if painted on top of cellulose.

 

I still haven't mounted the body correctly, yes, when the interior is fixed on, it should cure any bowing of the chassis. I think the bowing comes from the glue used by Bachmann to attach u/f details.

Cheers, Brian.

 

[davidw]

Not a bad match - Brown needs to be slight darker/deeper. But I think passable as is!

[Mike G]

Brian

The cream is an excellent match considering its cellulose...what colour did you use and who was the supplier, please? I'd agree with davidw that the chocolate needs further darkening, why not mix another concoction, its' a good, well built coach, deserves to blend in with the rest of your rake . I'd also go for cleaner lines with masking tape - next time, hiding 'fluffy' edges with lining is not easy.

Enjoying this, been some really good info come out of the thread...I'm also looking for the elusive Mk1 BR RB, but then I have a soft spot for these types of coaches.

 

regards

 

Mike

[craigwelsh]

Was the RB just added into an existing set replacing the ex GWR restaurant vehicle or was the whole set renewed? If it was added in i'd assume it would have a newer coat of paint than some of the existing set.The colour match looks pretty close anyway though really especially if you put a little t-cut on the Bachmann brown.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Chaps,

I'll give the RB another coat of chocolate, although bear in mind gloss or satin varnish will darken it slightly as well. The cellulose cream is from an old jar of Comet's own paint, any enamel choc overspray can be wiped off, although the lining will cover any remaining cock-ups.

Having already mentioned Bachmann's three successive shades of chocolate, i can add that they've now darkened the cream on the latest batch. Not to worry, as Craig hinted, the newly painted real RB was added to existing coaches in the Bristolian, so probably wasn't a perfect match anyway. The RB (with Commonwealth bogies) was added when the rake was extended from the previous 7-car set and most, but not all, other coaches gained B4 bogies. From memory it became roughly a 10-car set and longer still on saturdays with added maroon vehicles. I would also like to model The Bristolian in it's earlier 7-car form(s), the six Mk1s are all covered by Bachmann, but i would have to "create" the rare GW Buffet Car. I'll check with Robert C, as to whether they used a RU before the RB arrived ?

Time to sort out those doorsteps positions now . . .

Cheers, Brian.

[davidw]

The full train will look great.

[robertcwp]

Hi Chaps,

I'll give the RB another coat of chocolate, although bear in mind gloss or satin varnish will darken it slightly as well. The cellulose cream is from an old jar of Comet's own paint, any enamel choc overspray can be wiped off, although the lining will cover any remaining cock-ups.

Having already mentioned Bachmann's three successive shades of chocolate, i can add that they've now darkened the cream on the latest batch. Not to worry, as Craig hinted, the newly painted real RB was added to existing coaches in the Bristolian, so probably wasn't a perfect match anyway. The RB (with Commonwealth bogies) was added when the rake was extended from the previous 7-car set and most, but not all, other coaches gained B4 bogies. From memory it became roughly a 10-car set and longer still on saturdays with added maroon vehicles. I would also like to model The Bristolian in it's earlier 7-car form(s), the six Mk1s are all covered by Bachmann, but i would have to "create" the rare GW Buffet Car. I'll check with Robert C, as to whether they used a RU before the RB arrived ?

Time to sort out those doorsteps positions now . . .

Cheers, Brian.

I am not aware of an RU being used. I think the Bristolian was advertised with a buffet service, so it probably went straight from the GWR vehicle to W1646. The change to a 10-car set came in September 1961 when the train was slowed and gained a Bath stop. Annotations in the Winter 1961-2 carriage workings indicate it was adjusted a couple of times during the timetable. There is colour film of the set on its steam-hauled Saturday working. Not all the vehicles are visible but every one that is has B4 bogies except the RB, which has CW.

 

September 1961 formation was: BCK, 3 × SK, CK, RB, FO, 2 × FK, BCK

The CK was withdrawn 30/10/61 and reinstated 6/11/61. One SK was also withdrawn from the set (date not clear in carriage workings, but may also have been 30/10/61).

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

Here's a bit more progress on the RB, i've started altering the interior from RU to RB, the picture below shows it with a Mainline RB interior above for comparison. Some tables and chairs have been removed and a bulkhead relocated, ready to take the new buffet counter, again as on the Mainline model. Not sure if i should retain the roller shutter on the corridor wall, but it looks appropriate.

 

 

The body end brackets (just 'L' angle plastic section) are now fitted with screw holes drilled and tapped, parts of the interior floor have to be removed to clear these. Interior is now screwed back on to the chassis, which has straightened everything up like magic. Still got to alter some details on the underframe, the Bachmann models are nice to work on, since a lot of the parts can be unplugged and relocated.

Cheers, Brian.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Hi All,

Coach ends are now matt black, sitting next to a Bachmann BCK, we notice the lack of end steps on a RB. Maybe i should paint the gangway inner door a wood colour or more probably the later off-white ? As this coach will be in the middle of a rake, it won't be a priority. No masking tape used, just the body on it's side with a top screen ( anything, paper, plasticard scrap, metal edge), whilst spraying with airbrush.

 

 

Straight on to the roof colour, i use Humbrol 67 Matt Tank Grey for most of my roofs, but a lighter shade was needed to be a near match to Bachmann's choc/cream roof colour. The best i could find was Humbrol 92 (gloss) matted down, near enough for a roof anyway. Again, no masking tape, just the body on it's side and a metal edge held against the guttering and then turning over, being careful not to spray down the ends. Here are some comparison pics with a Bachmann BCK, my RB and a maroon Kitmaster BCK (with Humbrol 67 Tank Grey roof).

Cheers, Brian. (BTW, i intended to just mark the hinges with indian ink, wish i'd put metal ones in after all, too late now !)

 

[davidw]

Great looking job Brian...

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Dave,

Two more comparison pics.

Cheers, Brian.

 

[davidw]

Are you getting rid of the ribs

[exet1095]

Kitmaster BCK? Is this a cut and shut as it looks pretty good?

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Dave and Paul,

I've taken the ribs off the RB and Bachmann BCK, you can see the scars on the latter, they still show through the painted RB roof, which is just what i want.

Yes, the Kitmaster is one of my "cut and shuts", i could dig out some more over Christmas as another topic, if you're interested. For RMwebbers who are unaware (or not old enough !), Kitmaster made scale length Mk1 plastic kits in the early 1960s, complete with lovely flush plug-in windows. They produced kits for BSK,CK,RUO and SK/TSO in either maroon or green, eventually the firm was taken over by Airfix, but the coaches never re-appeared. They still turn up secondhand from time to time, but are usually broken or covered in glue, but i still love 'em.

Cheers, Brian.

[exet1095]

I found a shop with a large stock of Kitmaster kits in it in 1978. In Luxembourg. I foolishly told my best friend's father who then bought the lot! I have a few around - perhaps I should try some cuts and shuts on them - maybe a BFK from a RFO and a BSK, or a BSO from a TSO and a BSK?

 

Love seeing your coaches Brian - just need to find some time to follwo your example! Do please put together a thread on this subject.

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

[coachmann]

Coaches looking good. Neat job of spraying roofs too with a straight edge instead of masking tape. For years I detested BR Mk. I coaches but they are beginning to look quite stylish now.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Larry and Paul,

With two Kitmaster BSKs and a RUO, i managed to jumble up the parts to make a BCK, a BFK and a BSO. I'll do some pics over Christmas.

 

As Larry and others will know, using a paint shield saves time and works most of the time, any cock-ups can be easily corrected. I still use masking tape for the "awkward" jobs, but avoid it if possible, there's always the slight danger of lifting paint (no matter how clean and degreased) and the tape can leave a glue residue.

 

One of my coach livery bugbears is what colour to paint the coach guttering, sometimes it's roof colour, sometimes the livery is extended up on to it. This means constant checking of photos, which ends up taking longer than the painting. Again, as Larry will know, BR blood and custard often, but not always, came with black guttering as part of the livery, some early maroon paintjobs had it too.

Cheers, Brian.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

Having spent the last few days stuffing myself with turkey and pudding, it's time to crack on with the RB. I lined it out this morning and got the lettering on by lunchtime. Using some black indian ink, i marked on the hinges and the carriage board brackets, that can be seen poking down from the top lining. I know it's a bit of a cheat, but it's quick and easy, giving the desired effect. One problem with brass strip hinges, is they are easily knocked and the paint chips off. Sometimes i fit them, sometimes i don't !

 

After lunch a bit of spit on the finger removed any excess gum around the transfers, then it was time to varnish. As this coach is to run amongst Bachmann coaches, a matching satin finish was applied. This coach is numbered as W1646, with Commonwealth bogies, which ran in The Bristolian from 1961. The best pic i had was of W1732 (with B2 bogies) in the Powell Hendry coach book, oddly it didn't carry the small kitchen lettering on the doors, so i left it off W1646 for now. Also the long emergency door handle seemed to be in the two body colours on this occasion. The next big decision is what colour curtains ? Boring old light grey looks favourite, dark blue would look nicer. Here are some pics.

Cheers, Brian.