How many locos?

[robbostrains]

Nearly finished my HO switching layout,was wondering how many locos would be used .It's set in an industrial area with six industries served by rail,food distribution,grain,cold storage,road/rail depot,small factory,crane for unloading steel etc.Local railroad has the operating rites.I have about 25 various box cars,six hoppers for grain and a couple of gondolas.Would using two or three switchers be a bit over the top?The layouts 10ftx4ft return 10ins wide.Seem to remember reading that some short-lines only use one loco covering a large area.Thanks,Rob.

[Oldddudders]

Unless there is a very specific reason for having two locos on site at once, I think the average road, be it great or small, would assign a crew and one loco to do all the tasks in one locale such as you have described. It might be called a "job" a "drill" or a "shifter" among other monickers, but one engine, one crew could probably do it all.

 

Doesn't stop you having multiple locos - just use them one at a time!

[James]

If it was an industrial concern, then more than one loco may be appropriate. I'm thinking of places like Scunthorpe in this instance and I think industrial sites abroad must opporate in a similar way.

[Baby Deltic]

I think it also depends on the physical constraints of the prototype being modelled, and whether 'main line' loco's would be appropriate for shunting, etc. There may be a switcher on hand to break up the consist of a train and move the wagons to various locations or sidings.

[Baby Deltic]

I should have asked - are the trains being worked in by switchers or are they coming in behind mainline loco's?

[Jim Martin]

Model Railroader carried a feature on Progressive Rail, a switching operation serving an industrial park on the edge of Minneapolis, a few years back (the company has expanded quite a bit since the article was published and now operates several lines in three states: the original operation is at the northern end of what they now call the "Jesse James line", although when they started up the line south to Northfield was out of service and rail access was northwards on the Canadian Pacific). Although the site was reasonably compact and could probably have been operated by a single locomotive, the absence of a run-round meant that they operated with two switchers (SW1500s, I think), one at each end of the site, and a single crew which swapped locomotives as and when required.

 

Jim

[davknigh]

There is nothing to say that grades between your yard and the nearest interchange don't demand doubleheaded power Our local line, the Ontario Southland uses tripleheaded MLW RS 23s to work the various industries in Guelph. They also used to use doubleheaded MLW RS18us for a while but stopped that for unknown reasons. http://www.osrinc.ca/

 

Cheers,

 

David

[F-UnitMad]

... Although the site was reasonably compact and could probably have been operated by a single locomotive, the absence of a run-round meant that they operated with two switchers (SW1500s, I think), one at each end of the site, and a single crew which swapped locomotives as and when required.

They use two locos (but only one crew) at Lakeville Ind. Park because they have sidings facing 'both ways' so to speak, without, as Jim says, a run-round loop.

C-Vision Productions do a very nice DVD on Progressive Rail, taken in 2005 (I think), a bit more up-to-date than the MR article.

[alcoRS1]

My layout which is 41ft x 2ft, has 3 locos, 2 Gensets are together as local road switchers and one Genset for yard switching. I could use 2 locos if I was not using Gensets. But most videos I see of Gensets, have them doubled up.

[shortliner]

I think this is a "How long is a piece of string?" question. Many shortlines only had a single loco, which got used for everything - some had two, though one would be in the shop. Do a Google search for the Ballard Terminal RR - which will give you a small shortline with a single loco, though it has had several over a period of time. Some "shortlines" were, in fact, huge operations with multiple locos and their own rolling stock. I'd recommend the purchase of "American Shorthline Railway Guide" by Edward A Lewis, published by Kalmbach - which gives details of over 500 shortlines and their locos - I have editions 4 & 5

An example, taken at random from edition 4 is the "City of Prineville Railway". There is a photo which shows their entire loco fleet, a pair of GP9Us, hauling the road's daily freight turn. The line had 18.34 miles of track and owned 190 boxcars, operatingt freight and TOFC services in Oregon

[298]

Railroads are always going to use the most cost-effective option, which may mean only one crew but possibly more than one loco. The all electric Iowa Traction leaves their toys where needed to avoid run-rounds and minimise the loco mileage.

[robbostrains]

Thanks for all the replies, great help as always.

[Adrian Wintle]

The other option you might see is a loco and a slug. CN uses it in the Toronto area, dragging cars from the Langstaff yards to various industries - tank cars to the fuel terminals, boxcars and centerbeam cars to lumber yards, bead hoppers to plastics industries. In CN's case, this is usually a GP9 and what I think is an ex-GP9.

 

If the speeds are low, a single loco provides enough electrical power, so a slug (which is effectively traction motors and weight) provides additional traction without having to run another diesel.

 

Adrian

[dave1905]

Realistically?

 

A North American railroad from about the 1930's on would need about 1/3 to 1/4 locomotive for that much business. A railroad would normally have one engine serve about 3 to 4 times that many industries.

 

The industrial area I managed back in the 1980's had somewhere around 250 or more industry tracks. Lets say each track had 4 spots that over 1000 industry spots and we had 12 jobs per day using about 8 engines. So that's somewhere around 90 spots per job and 110 spots per engine. We handled about 200 cars on and 200 cars off the branch per day. So each job handled about 35 cars and each engine handled about 50 cars.

[shortliner]

Now here is an ideal shelf layout - the Delta Valley & Southern, a 2 mile shortline that links the BN at Delpro, Arkansas to Elkins, Arkansas - it hauls farm related commodities and manufactured produce. It owns 67 boxcars, and a single GE45-tonner

[highpeak]

Nice find Jack, some pictures of the Delta Valley at http://www.trainweb.org/arkansastrains/railroad/dvs/dvs.htm

 

I think the contrast between critters like the 44 and 45 tonners and modern power would be quite appealing on a switching layout. If the track layout permits, you could have a big road engine drop the cars for a shortline critter to do the switching on what is left of its former empire. And if the critter needed to go away for repairs, the shortline could lease an engine.

[Prof Klyzlr]

The other option you might see is a loco and a slug. CN uses it in the Toronto area, dragging cars from the Langstaff yards to various industries - tank cars to the fuel terminals, boxcars and centerbeam cars to lumber yards, bead hoppers to plastics industries. In CN's case, this is usually a GP9 and what I think is an ex-GP9.

 

If the speeds are low, a single loco provides enough electrical power, so a slug (which is effectively traction motors and weight) provides additional traction without having to run another diesel.

 

Adrian

 

Dear RMWebbers,

 

For a classic western-road example of a "local loco+slug set",

running dedicated-industry turns out of a main classification yard,

head to Youtube, and search "BNSF 3838".

 

you'll get a world of clips of BNSF GP7u 3838, it's mated slug #3957 (cut-down GP??), and one of the few remaining ATSF-era widevision cabooses,

from around Hutchinson, KS.

 

To get you started

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJEKvAYctgc

-

-

-

 

and what happens when communication fails

 

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMQ7mHJSiOA

 

In HO,

- GP7u and GP15-1 donors are available in ATSF/BNSF colors,

and detailing them to match 3838 should be a relatively easy and fun project

 

- the slug could be a cut-down GP,

and if the hood is too low for the standard mech, try a repowering solution from SEM

http://home.waterfront.net.au/~sem/

 

or Hollywood Foundry

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/

 

- and IIRC Athearn do a caboose which could be a "drop-in" pinch-hitter...

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[dave1905]

If you are modeling a modern class 1 railroad, they could be using an sd40 or SD50 as a local or switch engine. Right now on the UP virtually all the SD40-2's have been bumped to yard or local service.

 

A US short line would use anything from a 44 tonner or 70 tonner, to virtually any type of switcher to any type of GP. A lot depends on era. If you are back in the 1980's, shortlines were awash in ex-ATSF CF-7's. In the 1970's it would have been GP's. By the 2000's it was GP40's, GP38's and rebuilt SD's. A few larger shortlines or shortlines owned by a large consortium (there are several companies that buy shortlines and may own a dozen smae railroads, each independent but with a common corporate owner) might have newer rebuilt 4 axle rail power (gensets etc.)

[shortliner]

Decided to have a closer look at the DV&S on google - its not easy to find! Follow the rail track southwest from Wilson Arkansas until it splits into two, and then 3 tracks - that is the interchange on the north side of the line - do NOT try looking at Elkins, Arkansas which is miles away. The track runs off by what appears to be a farm complex, and there are a bunch of boxcars further down - with lots of overgrown trackage - There is the loco shed, but no sign of the loco itself. The track seems to form what is almost a very large runround loop

[dave1905]

I would be hard pressed to call the DV&S a railroad if that's all there is. 8-)

[highpeak]

According to the Wikipedia entry, their locomotive is on the National Register of Historic Places (reference 06001263, which does appear to be accurate). Suggests it is more loco than motive.

[shortliner]

The line has been cut back from its original 18 mile length between Delpro and Tyronza which served the timber industry, to its now two mile length in 1947. It is a "shortline" because it is privately owned by the Wilson Family. What is not obvious is whether it still runs, although it would certainly be an ideal shelf layout, particularly in a large scale

[CraigZ]

Frankly judging from Google the DV&S looks moribund...if anything a little terminal line for that grain elevator. And reading here http://www.facebook.com/pages/DVS-50/135755836458849 it's very uncertain if the loco is still there.

 

For a neat and busy shortline, look at the Laurinburg & Southern. Even today it's a busy little road...

[highpeak]

Frankly judging from Google the DV&S looks moribund...if anything a little terminal line for that grain elevator. And reading here http://www.facebook.com/pages/DVS-50/135755836458849 it's very uncertain if the loco is still there.

 

For a neat and busy shortline, look at the Laurinburg & Southern. Even today it's a busy little road...

If you're into scenery, don't like electrical stuff, can't get your engines to run well, a moribund road could be a good model. Here's the remains of Pinsly's St. Johnsbury fleet rusting away in the yard of the Montpelier and Barre in the late 70s:

[shortliner]

Thanks for that, Craig - the wording on that facebook page could almost have been taken verbatim from the shortline book I mentioned earlier