Ruston Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Welcome to the start of some very (and I mean VERY) occasional posts about my 4mm industrial antics. I've got railways in two of the most popular scales so I may as well go for the set and have something in 4mm. I used to do 00 many years ago and my first attempt at an industrial railway layout was about 20 years ago so it's about time I gave the locos that I still have from those days something to run on. Nothing's been decided yet as to the type of industry the railway will serve but here are the main characters that will grace the stage... The first ever etched brass kit that I built was a Ruston 48DS. I'd found out about this kit from reading an article about the prototype machines in RAIL magazine (IIRC). I'm unsure of the kit manufacturer but I bought it from TAG models in Doncaster (when the shop was near the railway station). It was a body-only kit and the reccomended powerplants were the Bachmann "Gandy Dancer" or the Tenshodo SPUD. I bought the Bachmann thing and chopped it up to fit the loco but I wasn't happy with it. It was the worst runner I've ever had and the wheels were far too small. So I tried the SPUD, which ran nicely for a couple of years but I was never completely happy with the wheelbase, which is 4mm too long. Eventually, after about 4 years, I had to dismantle the layout and haven't touched 4mm since. The locos however have been stored in a cabinet and earlier this year, after the RMweb members' day, I dug out the 48DS and traded a rebuild for an unmade Hudswell Clarke kit with Halfwit Paul. He had to completely dismantle the body and rebuilt it with a custom chassis of the correct wheelbase. Full story in Paul's blog http://www.rmweb.co....rebuild-part-1/ Here's where we're up to with the 48DS. I've yet to fit the buffers and couplings and give it a coat of paint. And then we have the second ever brass kit that I put together... It's one of those fabled Impetus kits and is something that I now wish I'd left alone in the box for 20 years. My skills have improved enough to do a half decent job of the body and even attempt the chassis that came with it. When I bought it I took the soft option of ftting a SPUD. Unfortunately I threw the etched chassis away so the project for this one is a similar complete rebuild and (get some one to make) a scratch built chassis. Unlike the 48DS I'm hoping this one will have drive to both axles. So there we have it. I'll post something more once I've either thought of an idea for the railway or done something with the locos. Just don't hold your breath whilst waiting Oh and the downer is that for some reason I asked Paul to build the 48DS chassis to EM gauge. So I'm going to have to build m own trackwork - great! That's something I swore I'd never do again after laying over 20ft of hand built track in O-14. And I've never done any hand built track in 4mm - ever... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 C&L do EM gauge flexi and even the stuff to make it. Should make the track a bit easier... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 You could always fit a Black Beetle in the 88DS Dave, you can spec EM gauge and 27:1 gearing when you order it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kits from Somerset Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I have got one of the RH 48HP Impetus kits which I should have made 4w drive as it would have pulled the prototype load. Motor and first stage gears in the bonnet with the cab clear of all this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 You could always fit a Black Beetle in the 88DS Dave, you can spec EM gauge and 27:1 gearing when you order it. Is that really low enough though? I'd have thought maybe 40:1 would be better for a shunter? There is another type of ready-made bogie that I was thinking of but I can't remember who makes it. They aren't a flat self-contained unit like the BB but have the motor on top of the chassis and can be ordered with different wheelbases, gearing and wheel diamters. I've seen them somewhere but I can't remember where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I'd reckon that 40:1 would still be far from low enough. Chris Gibbon's speed calculating spreadsheet - from the High Level Kits website - gives a top speed of about 40mph based on the rev's available from likely motors. I'm sure you have a more accurate idea of what the top speed of an 88DS might be, and I'm sure that 40:1 might - just about - be controllable at 'proper' speeds but... Perhaps one of High Level's tiny gearboxes, a Micromiser perhaps (which has 60, 80 or 108:1 options) driving one axle would do it? Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwaterscotland Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Is that really low enough though? I'd have thought maybe 40:1 would be better for a shunter? There is another type of ready-made bogie that I was thinking of but I can't remember who makes it. They aren't a flat self-contained unit like the BB but have the motor on top of the chassis and can be ordered with different wheelbases, gearing and wheel diamters. I've seen them somewhere but I can't remember where. Are you thinking of the Bullant? (http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/) A quick look shows 38.5:1 and 60:1 options. The standard version is 15:1 I think. Andy B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kits from Somerset Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 On my 48HP one I used a 17 X 9.5 open frame motor with an Exactoscale 2 to 1 reduction box with a 40 to 1 on the drive axle, with the motor fitted over the top of this gear box. This is one of the old design 40 to 1 gear box but most likely will still be workable with the new ones. The new 17 X 9.5 motors will be a lot slower running than the ones that were available when I did mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Is that really low enough though? I'd have thought maybe 40:1 would be better for a shunter? There is another type of ready-made bogie that I was thinking of but I can't remember who makes it. They aren't a flat self-contained unit like the BB but have the motor on top of the chassis and can be ordered with different wheelbases, gearing and wheel diamters. I've seen them somewhere but I can't remember where. Probably not but better than the standard 15:1 ratio Black Beetles. The other bogies that you mention sound like they come from Hollywood Foundry although I have no experience of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Ah yes, that was it. Hollywood Foundry "Bullant" units are what I was thinking of. I've been thinking about ideas for a layout. It would be 6ft. x 1ft. with 2ft. of that being a fiddle yard or whatever. I'd like to have something that has a purpose for the shunting and I don't like to unload wagons by "the big hand from the sky". A scrapyard is my ideal but getting it to look right is difficult and then there's the problem of loading open wagons with scrap loads without the big hand from the sky coming in to play. It's not like wagons can be shunted into a building and loaded out of view because scrapyards are an outdoor industry. So my other ideas are: A food factory of some sort. A chocolate biscuit factory maybe? I think it could offer plenty of variety in wagons and of the sort where they look the same loaded and unloaded. Grain hoppers, Milk tanks and vans in, fuel oil tanks in (for the boiler house etc.) and vans out. But I guess the environs of somewhere such as that would be pretty clean as it isn't a dirty industry and it involves food after all. Another idea is for an electric light bulb factory. Sand, in covhops or tipplers (a working tippler always adds interest on an industrial layout IMO), in. Sheet metal and wire in (I guess they press the metal parts out of stampings?) in open wagons and finished products out in shock vans. The opens can be unloaded out of sight after being shunted into a building. Plenty of scope for muck and grot? Anyone got any more suitable ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Do like the grotty finish on the completed model Dave-nice work!! How about a canning factory-you'vee got metal going in for canning as well as the food raw materials, whatever they may be-soup springs to mind (Baxters actually increased their traffic on the Peterhead branch after pasenger trafic ceased in 1965)-the sation site was modified somewhat to acommodate this traffic. On another note, myself an Neil of this parish have a small scrapyard project in EM ongoing for about a year now, the prime motivator being built of as much recycled stuff as possible, so I'll be following your thread with some interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Another idea is for an electric light bulb factory. Sand, in covhops or tipplers (a working tippler always adds interest on an industrial layout IMO), in. Sheet metal and wire in (I guess they press the metal parts out of stampings?) in open wagons and finished products out in shock vans. The opens can be unloaded out of sight after being shunted into a building. Plenty of scope for muck and grot? A glassworks has always been at the back of my mind as something generally interesting but a bit offbeat - that takes it a stage further Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2011 Perhaps one of High Level's tiny gearboxes, a Micromiser perhaps (which has 60, 80 or 108:1 options) driving one axle would do it? The High Level product is certainly good, and I used a Micromiser in a scratchbuild chassis for one of my 'Critters' - only problem was that I got the weight distribution wrong and it wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding - it would stall on weeds in the four foot! I also bought an assembled 48DS (Impetus) from a friend in the club (P4) and had to cram as much lead in it as possible to get it to run sensibly - and that was with the 'as designed' Impetus chassis and one axle drive methodology. So, if you can get two-axle drive - go for it every time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cornelius Posted January 2, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2011 Oh and the downer is that for some reason I asked Paul to build the 48DS chassis to EM gauge. So I'm going to have to build m own trackwork - great! That's something I swore I'd never do again after laying over 20ft of hand built track in O-14. And I've never done any hand built track in 4mm - ever... EM will be easy for you, its just O14 standards + 4mm! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 So, if you can get two-axle drive - go for it every time! I quite agree, but I'd choose a single axle over 27:1 every time... A personal foible of mine! Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 What length wheelbase is needed? Just wondered as I had a thought that perhaps one of these might be adaptable http://www.halling.at/modelleisenbahnen/pdf/stehender-antrieb.pdf The brass balance weight is removable, running is pretty good when weighted, only problem I could see is pickups for EM and possibly replacement axles (1.5mm) Dunno, thought it might be of interest/help? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 The wheelbase scales at 23mm or near enough. 24mm would probably do because the wheelbase was adjustable within a few inches to take up wear in the drive chains. The wheel diameter scales at 12mm. I really don't think that chassis would be suitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 I said it would be slow progress. With no work today and with nothing much to do on the 7mm front, due to waiting for ballast to set, I set about slathering paint stripper over the 88DS and then taking it to pieces. A lot of it was glued together so it literally fell apart. Some parts had fallen off before and had been glued again leaving a mess of dried glue. This time I will solder all but the smallest parts.I lost a few of the handrail knobs in the mess of used paint stripper - D'oh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 This time I will solder all but the smallest parts. Why not give it the treatment it deserves and solder everything? Just because they are small is no excuse to treat them badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 If I tried soldering them I would be treating them badly. The horn, for example, is a tiny whitemetal casting that would end up as a blob. Other parts are just to fiddly to be even attempting it as far as I'm concerned and if I screw up there's no chance of getting a replacement part. I'll use araldite in stead of cyano this time though. It's much stronger and has a bit of flex in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 What are you doing for a chassis Dave? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I haven't really looked into it yet. Paul. I was considering one of those Hollwood Foundry things that was mentioned earlier but I don't have money to be throwing at something as expensive as one of those right now. So I'll probably rebuild and paint the model and leave powering it until later. One other thing I'd thought of was to have some sort of set up with a motor powering each axle but having now taken chassis off the 48DS in order to paint the body I doubt that two of those gearboxes and motors will fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well I have managed thus far without resorting to adhesives. I had to strip it further than the previous pic because I found that the cab was too far over to one side so the whole thing had to be unsoldered and soldered up again in the correct position. Ihad also assembled the donkey engine cover with the etch lines on the outside so I've now corrected this. One thing that I haven't put right is that the front panel (radiator surround) is still on inside out. I guess the dimples are for rivets to be punched out but as they aren't really prominent on the prototype I think they're better left off than dimpled out overscale. I don't have a rivet press and doing them by hand and a sharpened steel point is too hit and miss. I may hide the dimples with a light skim of filler before painting. The hand rail is a bit wonky but I'm going to leave it. Behind it is the first wagon that I have regauged. I've slapped some paint on the 48DS. The nearest thing to the Ruston & Hornsby factory colour is Deep Bronze Green and Revell's Bronze Green is very much like it so I've used that. I really don't like Revell paints! The last one I had was Matt Black when I couldn't get hold of any Humbrol and it left lots of brush marks. The consistency is sludgy and it dries far too fast so I had to thin it down and apply a few coats. It still needs another. Is it made for spraying rather than brushing? It needs couplings and a some more painting and weathering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 ]Just in case anyone's still following this (it isn't very exciting I must admit) here's a couple more pics. The 48DS has recieved some cab glazing, more paint and some weathering. It is shown with a shock van that I bought last week. I reckon this would be ideal if I do go for a glass bulb factory and brings me onto the next pic.. I've decided that I'm going to have a tippler or some other excuse for the ubiquitous 16-ton mineral wagons and so I dug out some of my old Bachmann wagons from the OO layout that I used to have. I had already bought a new one at the time of buying the shock van and was very disappointed to find that the old ones don't measure up in any way whatsoever. So I've pulled all the 3-links out of them for further use and the rest will be going back into the cardboard box where they have slumbered for many years. I've regauged the new model to EM. All I need now is a bit of track to test the loco on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 The 48DS has recieved some cab glazing, more paint and some weathering. All I need now is a bit of track to test the loco on... I still haven't glazed mine... Nice painting and weathering job. And it does run, honest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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